My feeling is that an upgrade for the Harmony is not so complex as stated here. There is plenty of room in the wings to add upfiring speakers. Only challenge could be the woofers,
OK, but here’s the thing. Beoworlders keep saying these things are never complex but with the exception of (I think BL8002 to BL18), I don’t recall any B&O design getting a technological update. sure there’s a MK1, 2 and 3 on a few models – probably internal parts sourcing. So like where was the 32in Avant with LCD screen?, BC2 with BR?, BS5 with touchscreen, BS9000 with BR compatibility? Upgrade the BV7 with BR? Eclipse with interchangeable Panels?
Lots of great ideas here….but none of them ever happened. I doubt B&O will update or redesign the Harmony (other than for spares replacement). They are more likely to bring a whole new class of model out instead revamping old models looking at past form.
Also, with the so-called Cradle to Cradle philosophy, they may revamp but the Harmony was never designed that way. Then again, Cradle to Cradle may just mean modular servicing of swap parts for +10years rather than anything more dramatic.
Im not 100% certain it is internal loudspeaker room correction. To me, playing music via the LG Media Player and the DNLA network, the music loses a good deal of edge and its like there is a bit of “fog” in the room, while playing via the Auralic is crystal. It may be the Powerlink doing the damage?
Consider three pathways:-
Melco Server >> DNLA Network >> Auralic Streamer (512)>> Auralic DAC >> XLR (Analogue) >> BL90 (ADC 192) = Superb.
Melco Server >> DNLA Network >> Eclipse/LG Media Player >> Powerlink (Analogue) >> BL90 (ADC 192) = “Meh”.
Melco Server >> DNLA Network >> BSTH/New LG Media Player >> Powerlink (Analogue) >> BL90 (ADC 192) = Much better than Eclipse/LG but not close to the Auralic pathway.
Its either BSTH improves the LG Media Player or the new LG Media Player is better than the old app and/or the Powerlink is better?
Finally, BL90/50/28 will most likely have been designed around a “true digital rendering process” and streamline. Older Beolabs 1, 6000, 8000, 9 etc…may have been better receiving from the old true analogue sources. The BSTH sorta bridges the gap between the generations improving older units but not doing as much as the pure digital loudspeakers?
I think what you are experiencing with the BSTH and BL28 is what I have readily experienced with Eclipse/BL90 or latterly, BSTH/BL90. Direct feed to the loudspeaker is significantly “better” (clarity, image, tonal complexion etc..).
I have run room-sense on BL90 only (N/W/O) and BL90+BSTH+BL3 and BSTH Only.
- For TV only, I now mainly run BSTH and no surrounds
- For Films (Netflix/Amazon/Kaleidescape etc..) full 5.1 (Atmos capable next week!!)
- For non-critical music LG Player via the BSTH ro BL90 only
- For critical music (Music server or Qobuz), BL90 via an Auralic stack and XLR.
What is not clear from your post is the Source. I have always been of the opinion that the LG Media Player (DNLA) in the Eclipse was rubbish, less so via eArc/BSTH. Or if you are piping an external source into the BSTH and it is acting as a pre-amp? i.e. is the Media Player or the BSTH causing a degradation in sound quality?
In both our cases, piping music into the loudspeaker directly seems to be the highest quality option.
I can see all Beovisions above 55in EoL soon because of the Theatre. Harmony is a very complex TV setup, the Eclipse with motorised stand slightly less so but rationalising to a single Beosound would save a significant operating cost I would assume?
I could also imagine the Stage going EoL in its current form with a new mini Theatre taking its place in the 48 to 55in range. Simplified and cheapened (no powerlink) but with similar mounting options.
All speculation on my part.
The player has a somewhat decent UI – however, I do not want to look at that screen the whole album through.
The BR1 “List” feature doesn’t show the command “Show Picture” (as the Harmony or Eclipse)?
Your player doesn’t have an “AUDIO only” setting?
I can’t imagine that a BLI should be needed – to me it seems more a function that has not yet been implemented with the Mozart platform. Let us keep asking them to do so! MM
to my knowledge, only if a BLC can be integrated, direct access to BLC sources is possible with a remote (for example BV11, Beosound Core/35/Essence mkII ); no integration then no direct access with a remote (for example BV Harmony/Eclipse, Beosound Balance, Beolab 28).
Hi guys, I wonder what gives better picture and sound quality on my BV Eclipse when using streaming services: use the current LG apps or the latest Apple TV 4K? What would you recommend? Thx for the advice and Happy New Year!
You can – and should – tweak both the tv and the ATV (as was described in the previous post).
There are tons of articles and YT videos about both out there.
I doubt there will be much – if any – difference then…..in real life.
The more important thing will be how you use the apps.
I’d say, if you already have the ATV4K box, use this – if you haven’t go for the tv apps.
One advantage of using the apps of the tv is, that you can access these directly from the BROne……if you need this.
An advantage of using the ATV box is, that you can access the same content at the place/time of video playback where you are, if you move to another room with another ATV box and you can have the same/syncronized home screen layout on all devices – should you have more boxes/more tv’s in the house.
Personally I have used the ATV boxes previously with all my 3 tv’s and continue to use one on the Theatre setup – I never see the apps of the LG tv.
Either way you can have excellent picture and sound…..assumed that you have made the right settings.
MM
When B&O had the MasterLink (ML) solution this is how it all worked. You could press N.Music or CD and then “Speaker 1” in the remote menu. Beosound music would play through the TV speaker. “Speaker 2” would activate any front stereo speakers and so on.
Turn on a music source and video sources would be killed and visa versa.
The BR1 and current-day web based products have an inherent linking of sources but which makes speaker selection difficult other than the default TV controlled speaker choice. I am sure it can be done….its just the infinite combinations which the manual does not tell you and only the most expert of installers will know how.
The last time I recalled using the BeoApp on a “true” Beovision (Eclipse), there were mybuttons on one of the back screens on the app. With the BS Theatre, this is now done a differently way.
Hi guys,
I wonder what gives better picture and sound quality on my BV Eclipse when using streaming services: use the current LG apps or the latest Apple TV 4K?
What would you recommend?
Thx for the advice and Happy New Year!
What’s interesting is that the Harmony and Eclipse supports DTS but the Contour does not. DTS is not that big of a deal for me since I have an LG G2 that does not support DTS, but it would be nice to have it on the Theatre. I could plug the device directly into the Theatre which is a really nice option.
Times change. Tastes change. I have a fair bit of b&o – bl4000, bl8000, bl1, bl2, bs1, bd2, bs balances, eclipse,bs9000, bs5. Add some headphones, and BT speakers. I don’t much use my 4000s or 8000s, but my kids don’t want them. Too flashy, Dad. I’d say if b&o had stuck with the Lewis design, they might not have many young customers. My 9000 is broken, and I’m seriously challenged justifying getting it fixed. While timeless, maybe it’s time has passed (for me).
My Theatre is on 2.3.4.15129 also. Bugfixes and stability Improvements.
I cannot ascertain what has been improved from the app or the device. I have made a number of requests to fix bugs etc…and these are under “consideration” by the development team for future improvement.
- There are some BL90 interactions which need to be joined-up with Theatre.
- Listening positions does not compress as you add more buttons/listening positions
- There is a issue with editing “TV” and “Music” lists repetitively
- Cannot move some LG apps (Music Apps) to the Music List button
- Source Levelling control (was in Eclipse/Harmony)
- A device-specific PUC add-on
I’ll certainly pass that one on!
However, remember that if you’re using a single source (e.g. an Apple TV) with multiple streams / apps, then a source-based gain offset will not help – however, this is already true on an Eclipse/Harmony for example, as you probably already know.
Hi Geoff,
So one thing to “add-back” perhaps is the dB gain function in the eclipse which allowed to the User to try an match different source outputs to the same general level. I understand that watching Live TV, a volume setting of say 50 is required. On Netflix, 48-46. Amazon Prime I think has lots of people with hearing difficulty because I have to wind that down to 40-42. Again, as you indicate, it probably has something to do with the “quality” of the Title and its format.
This volume normalisation feature is employed it seems in Mybuttons but in a dark room, my muscle-memory of what is 1-2-3-4 Mybutton is not intuitive. Better just to press TV, curser down and select the most appealing blue writing on the screen. Sound levels pre-matched of course!
Backporting the feature to the first generation Eclipse would be interesting also, even if it is unlikely that B&O will do the effort. A way to turn the feature on and off is however required to avoid burn-in on the OLED screen.
The current way now is to look at the app.
Regards,
Jean
geoffmartin wrote: The sensitivity (the relationship between the levels of the input and the output signals) of the Beosound Theatre is the same as all other Beovision televisions (until the internal protection algorithms kick in). So, if you’re playing the same mix of the same input signal, then Volume Step 42 will deliver the same output level as on an Eclipse / Harmony / Beovision 11. Of course, this assumes that all other parameters are identical, which won’t make sense in most cases. (For example, I doubt that many persons will configure their Theatre to output only L / C / R as on an Eclipse.)
Interesting. My observation of replacing an Eclipse on a one-for-one swap with a Theatre – even keeping the same wiring loom connecting BL90, BL3 and an Oppo 105 is that my typical “action movie” volume setting of 47 (sufficient) now runs 50-52.
Nothing wrong with that…..it may be like a potent sports car…. The more power, the more mundane it feels as you accelerate with ease, the more you crave more power??
Typically, what volume are you all using through the LG TV (obviously depends) but I am fairly close with the volume at 43-46 and the dialogue is pretty weak. A character also knocked on a door with the scene on the inside and the knock was barely audible. Other elements are fine such as action, score etc. I checked the app and the position is correct and sound setting on movie.
The sensitivity (the relationship between the levels of the input and the output signals) of the Beosound Theatre is the same as all other Beovision televisions (until the internal protection algorithms kick in). So, if you’re playing the same mix of the same input signal, then Volume Step 42 will deliver the same output level as on an Eclipse / Harmony / Beovision 11.
Of course, this assumes that all other parameters are identical, which won’t make sense in most cases. (For example, I doubt that many persons will configure their Theatre to output only L / C / R as on an Eclipse.)
With the fantastic new Theatre proposition, I think it is interesting to see how the audio and video signal management, and also audio and video reproduction have been going around various ‘cabinets’ over time:
From the ‘norm’ (I trust that there are historical exceptions) that everything is integrated in one cabinet to separable cabinets: (trying to be complete)
AV9000 – audio&video management + video reproduction in one cabinet, separate speaker cabinet (with VCR though)
BeoVision 4/12 – audio+video management in BeoSystem 1/2/3/4, separate screen, separate (center) speaker
BeoVision 7 – audio+video management & video reproduction combined, separate (center) speaker
BeoVision 9 – audio+video management in BeoSystem 3, audio (center) and video reproduction combined in one cabinet
BeoVision 5/6/10/11/14/Horizon & BeoPlay V1 – all in one
BeoSound Stage/Theatre & BeoVision Contour/Eclipse/Harmony – video management & reproduction in one cabinet (TV), audio management and reproduction in one cabinet (you could argue the Contour has no easily separable cabinets, but I believe the screen is actually a complete LG TV)
It looks like that first the speakers were isolated from the AV management, then later also the screen. Then it all came together again. After that the video management found its home in the screen, and the audio management in the center speaker. Which sounds quite logical to me!
I am using a BeoSystem 3 with an LG C9 and a BeoLab 7-1 center speaker, but actually only use the audio management and PUC control of the LG. All video management is with the LG. Bigger cable salad! 🙂
Just a thought.
I am having no luck.
I have manual updates turned on, and the automatic/manual slider button is not displayed I assume because it’s ready to do the update.
I tried removing it from the app, and re-adding it. This fixes most Balance problems.
I tried with an apple device, and it doesn’t even have a greyed out “install now” button. It takes me to the software update screen and there’s nothing to do.
I’ve verified that I have the newest app software.
I tried rebooting the TV through the app.
I don’t want to factory reset because I don’t exactly remember all that was required to setup the PUC.
I don’t understand the above comment about there being two menus. I always updated the screen through the TV and the sound center through the app. When I open the Eclipse on the app, there’s a big box that says “New Software Available”. I click the box, and it takes me to a screen that shows the new software version and has a link for previous releases and a non-working “install now” button.
