[Madskp]

Hi again

Wow that is somewhat complicated, and I guess that you could have misread some connections between things, but this give a better picture of what you are dealing with.

Like Guy I also wonder what the purpose of the orange wire is, and if it is actually connected to the MCL2E in the other end?

The MCL2E is an extender that is used when there is more than 4 zones in a MCL sytem, and I wonder if it is nessecary the way your system seems to be divided with two amplifiers. But I would leave it for now so you don’t make to many changes.

Have you recently done any unplugging of cables on the 1655? Could it have been a cable that should go into the IR port instead? Like guy suggest I would also try to power down the system, remove that cable and start it up again to see how things react.

The three grey boxes shown in the lover left corner are MCL2A and so is the first box after the 1551. These are as mentioned earlier just relay boxes to activate speakers and will follow the volume of the amplifier, so I will suspect that some of your zones has had the same volume control all the time.

I will asume that some of the MCL2A boxes are connected to the red wire from the 1655.

The IR eyes connect to the MCL2A and MCL2AV boxes to control them. It is the thin grey wire going into them. So every room should have a IR eye and a grey box (MCL2A or MCL2AV).

Also I wonder what the deal is with the ML delay box? are there other Masterlink components that we do not see from these drawings?

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

I got the mail yesterday, and links are working

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Just to be sure, doea the small grey boxes have connectors on the front or just a flat surface?

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Then what you have is a MCL (Master Control Link) system.

Someplace in your system you probably have a ML-MCL converter that act as a amplifier for all of the link rooms. As the amplifier is the same the volume in all link rooms follow each other as they probably just have a relay box (MCL2A) that activates the speakers in the rooms

There is an option to upgrade the relay box to a more advanced one called MCL2AV that has some compensation that makes it possible to have near individual volume control in the link rooms, but that will also require a separate amplifier in each room or active speakers.

If you want to upgrade it might be more feasable to convert to a Masterlink system where you can get real individual volume control.

Let me know if you need more info

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

If you do not find one here is some inspiration for a cheap wall bracket I made when I had a Beovision 8-40”

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qFhK2cvmgrrjvyn48

It is just two shelf bracket where I have drilled some holes in for the screews that go up in the bottom of the TV

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Does not sound like somthing that should be possible in a Masterlink system.

Are the IR eyes the round silver ones or the older rectangular white or black type?

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

ebnrob wrote:

This must be why it stopped working for me, then came back to life.

I guess that is the same issue your are experiencing.

ebnrob wrote:

Annoyingly I was late to the MasterDataTool party and so missed out on getting hold of one – it would have been ideal for me. I hope the forthcoming Datalink streamer will also include the masterlink port to bridge the two interfaces instead of just acting as a streamer.

An alternative could still be a Beomaster 3500/4500/5500/6500/7000 instead of the MCL2AV in the same setup. Not so easy to hide though.

ebnrob wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to help with this project Madskp.

No problem, i think it is quite interesting to explore the limits of these older systems 🙂

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Madskp wrote:

I have one more option I can check. I have a little analyser tool I can connect to the datalink pin in the AUX cable to see if a datalink command is sent along with the 5V in the powerlink cable. Also I can check if the datasignal looks different then the one sent from the BC9300. I know it is a rabbit hole as we will probably not be able to fix anything if the datasignal is missing or different, but it could maybe give some closure about why this functionality is flaky

So I had a try with the data analyser tool where i captured the data stream on pin 6 in the AUX cable between the 1611 and the BC9300 and MCL2AV respectivly when the 1611 si connected to the Beocenter 6-23 with Masterlink.

If I press CD when the BC9300 is used the TV starts up immediately as I have experienced before, and the captured data signal looks like this showing that some data is sent

If I try the same with the Beocord 3500 connected to the MCL2AV for a situation where the TV does not start the dataline is just flat meaning not data.

If I after some turning on and off get the TV to start I get a datasignal much like the above (but some differences because of a different source).

So my best guess is that the MCL2AV does not establish a data connection with the 1611/BC6-23 before it has been initialised, which in this case first seems happen after the TV has activated the MCL2AV a couple of times.

One thing to note about this behaviour is that the MCL2AV was never intended to be converted to masterlink on that TV connection. Only connect to a MX/LX type of TV with datalink, so there is probably many scenarios B&O has not verified or even tested if would work.

 

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

I can now confirm that the problem was with the HDMI-DVI adapter I got from Amazon – I got a better quality HDMI to DVI cable, and that works fine.  I have a 3-way HDMI switch (which also separates out the audio signal) arriving tomorrow, so that will allow me to use my 3 HDMI devices with the TV, plus my old Nintendo GameCube plugged into a SCART (I’ve feeling up for a bit of retro gaming!).

Great, hope that solves it. I also had some messing arround with a cheap HDMI audio extractor that i thought was dead, bought another one that did not wor, and the the first one turned out to work after all.

CharlieWednesday wrote:

The only one disappointment – the BV7 user guide recommends for an ‘integrated AV system’ it’s best to set the BV7 in Opt 1, the BS4 in Opt 2, and connect the speakers to the TV.  That worked, but the displays on my Beolab Pentas did not work when connected to the TV.  It’s strange that B&O built the BS4 with Powerlink 2 support, but not the BV7? I can’t lose those lovely displays on my Beolab Pentas, so I have plugged them back into the BS4 and set both that and the BV7 to Opt 1.  I have to use AV commands to get TV sound, but at least it all works.

To bad that the display data does not work. There might be some hints in this thread though https://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/14172.aspx

Something about a audio / video switch one the bottom of the Pentas

Hope that is helpfull

 

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Regarding the DVI input be avare that the BV7-32 has a max resolution of 1366×768 so will not show a picture if a 1080P signal is incomming.

For my BV6-23 I had to change the resolution on a Apple TV3 when connected to another TV and the connect it to the Converter connected to the BV6-23 to make it work

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

Beosystem 3 in Option 1 Beosound 4 in Opt 2 (?) Beovision 7 in Opt 0

You can not have 2 videomasters in a ML system (option 1 and 0), and a TV as a link room can not have the IR disabled. Based on that I would say:

Beosystem 3, option 5

Beosund 4 option 1 (only respond to audio commands so you do not activate both the BS4 and the Beosystem 3 at the same time)

Beovision 7 option 0 (alternativly option 4)

 

Alternativly if no speakers are connected to BS4 that could also be in option 0 and the Beosystem 3 in option 6

 

However if you want to be able to control the BV7 stand more than just have a standby and normal use position you will have to think of another way of controlling it if the TV is in option 0.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Also see this thread https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beocenter-6-with-beosystem-3-and-beocenter-2-how/ where a similar setup was discussed. Especially the last post mentions that the Beolab 7.x speaker can be connected to the BS3 effectively just making the BV7 a screen if you do no need the built in sources

Edit: Now with link

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

No t having any experience with the BS3 the biggest problem I see with combining the two devices is double commands. You might be able to avoid the double command by setting one of the devices in option 4 (Link + commands). If you do that for the BV7 you can turn it on with Link + PC command and control all sources from the BS3 with normal commands. To avoid Masterlink conflicts you should only connect one of the devices to ML unless you setup the BS3 as a link room.

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

BTW if you want to explore the AV9000 further I have some of the AV9000 audiokit for free in this thread https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/free-bo-spare-parts/

However since Brexit shipping options to UK is more limited and more expensive + you might end up paying import taxes, so might not be feasible.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

Such a shame that B&O abandoned Beogram compatibility on their later products though. I saw a video where Hall Audio suggested they had considered developing a phono stage that uses Datalink and connects via ML, for use with later Beosound devices such as my BS4. I sincerely hope they do!

Someone brought it up on the Discord B&O channel, and Hall audio answered that the ML streamer is their first priority for now

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Madskp wrote:

The BM4500 with the 1.6 SW has a double option setting x.x where the first is option 1, 2, 3 or 4, and the .x is either 5 for working a master and 6 for working as a link room. I am A little in doubt if option0 is possible, but will check up on that.

Just tested, and the BM4500 can be setup in option 0.6 making it a link room device with no remote control.

One thing I am however not sure of is how it will work with a 1611 converter as that works a Audio Master, but maybe with a 1614 or a 1615 with a special cable as shown in usecase 8 this post https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beolab-3500-and-1611-converter-settings/page/21/#post-42602

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Before buying extra stuff for this you might want to check if the ML gateway can control a link rom music system by putting your BS4 in option 5 or 6

CharlieWednesday wrote:

Instead of connecting an output from the Beomaster to the Aux input of the Beosound, I was wondering if I could connect my Beolab speakers to the BV8 instead, and set it up with the BV8 in Opt 2 and the BS4 in Opt 0 (which is what the Beolink handbook seems to suggest if you want your speakers connected from the TV).

You might be able to do this, but not sure how that affects playing the source on link room speakers

CharlieWednesday wrote:

But: if I did then also connect a Beomaster via my 1611, that would also need to be in Opt 0, so I’m guessing that wouldn’t work, as the two audio masters would both be in Opt 0.  The Beolink handbook (v2.1) gives lots of examples of setups with more than one video master, but none with more than one audio master.

The BM4500 with the 1.6 SW has a double option setting x.x where the first is option 1, 2, 3 or 4, and the .x is either 5 for working a master and 6 for working as a link room. I am A little in doubt if option0 is possible, but will check up on that.

CharlieWednesday wrote:

SW version 1.6 specifically, or SW version 1.6 or later?  How do you find out the software version on these?

I think that in another post someone suggested that it was SW below 2.0. On mine the SW version is shown on the label on the back

 

 

 

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

This may interest you. I have recently been experimenting with an ML Gateway I got hold of a while ago, and I read on the old support site that it will work with a Beolink Converter 1611, with this caveat given: BeoLink Converter can be used with compatible video master and old audio master in Option 2-0 So I set my BV8 to Opt 2, then connected my 1611 converter into the same ML network (which also has the ML Gateway), disconnected my BS4 and connected my BC8500 and BG8500. Then I set my BC8500 to Opt 0. I was then able to add the 1611 to the ML Gateway’s devices – it was recognised. I then created a macro in the ML Gateway, asking it to send the Phono/N.Radio command to my BV8 if I hit the LIGHT button on my Beo4. It worked! The BC8500 comes on in Phono, the BG8500 starts playing. The sound comes from the BV8 speakers, but at least it works. I could only get it to start the turntable with that command – I have so far been unable to find a way of getting a macro command that will move forward or back on the BG8500, but it’s a start. I’m wondering if I might be able to find a way of making this work with my current obsession of getting my Beo4 to control my BG3000, which is connected to my BS4. I’m wondering if I could get a cheap BM5500 (in place of the BC8500 which needs to go back to the room it belongs in!), and somehow, with some clever wiring and link settings, use the LIGHT commands on my Beo4 to trigger macros in the ML Gateway that will start my BG3500, playing through the speakers connected to my BS4. That’s the dream.

Not sure that it will help in this particular case, but none of the less interesting that commands can be made into macros.

For your particular scenario maybe if you can make a macro that sends a command to a BM5500 to start phono and at the same time send a command to the BS4 to active A.AUX. I do not know if it is possible to send commands to more units at the same time, and you will off course still have the issue that you can not have 2 audio masters in the system so one of them might have to be setup as a link room. As most Beomasters can not be setup as link rooms this makes it difficult, but there is a possibility if you can find a Beomaster 4500 with SW version 1.6 as this can be setup as a link room. Just some random thought without knowing the possibilities and limitations of the ML gateway

Edit 1: And you will have to route the sound from the BM4500 output directly to the BS4 AUX input for this to work sound wise

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

I have been trying a few things over the last days and I am being more and more sure that the option settings does not affect how this function works.

I have tried the following with both my MCL2AV type 2020 and 2026:

• Working stand alone with only IR eye and Beocord 3500 and a set of powerlink speakers connected. regardless of option 0, 1 or 2 the powerlink speakers always turn on when I activate via the play button on the Beocord 3500. So the 5V on pin 4 of powerlink does not seem to be related to option settings.
• If I connect via 1611 to the BC6-23 the MCL2AV’s IR eye will not react when the MCL2AV is in option 2 but it will in option 1 (I tested this by covering the TV IR eye). So the IR eye is deactivated when in option 2 and connected to a TV.
• Regardless if I use the MCL2AV type 2020 or 2026 the ability to turn on the TV with a press on the Beocord play button is inconsistent and might at best first work after several tries and/or if the remote has been used to activate the Beocord a couple of time

As I can’t really conclude much from this I decided to try with the Beocenter 9300 again. Conncted it with powerlink and AUX cable to the 1611 still connected to the BC6-23 with Masterlink:

• Pressing CD or tape instantly turn on the TV in first try every time.
• Changing the option of the BC9300 to 0, 1 or 2 does not make any difference. The TV will allways turn on. The options only seem to affect how the passive speakers conncted to the BC9300 reacts (muted or unmuted

So I tried again to connect the BC9300 -1611 – BLC NL/ML – Beoplay V1.

• Again. seems to start the TV playing the music every time I press CD or Tape.
• As before changing the option of the BC9300 to 0, 1 or 2 does not make any difference. The TV will allways turn on. The options only seem to affect how the passive speakers conncted to the BC9300 reacts (muted or unmuted)

So to me it seems that this functionality is much more stable in the BC9300 than it is in the MCL2AV. Maybe a flaw in the MCL2AV software the was newer fixed or discovered for that matter. I am wondering how many people back in the day would have a link room with the MCL2AV and a TV and a local CD/Tape/Phono connected to the MCL2AV and activated via the buttons on the device.

 

I have one more option I can check. I have a little analyser tool I can connect to the datalink pin in the AUX cable to see if a datalink command is sent along with the 5V in the powerlink cable. Also I can check if the datasignal looks different then the one sent from the BC9300.

I know it is a rabbit hole as we will probably not be able to fix anything if the datasignal is missing or different, but it could maybe give some closure about why this functionality is flaky

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

in my opinion the “new” layout might give more scrooling at least on mobile deviced where each product takes up a lot of screen space.
But it seems more intuitive than the other layoyt where the view button seems kinda redundant unless there is a feature I have not discovered.

Location: Denmark

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