[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

On that note, when doing a Google search for B&O information I think I am seeing less ‘Beoworld’ hits than before. Perhaps this is related to the new forum?

I just remembered this, and here is my input. I have a feeling that the most google hits I get from Beoworld forums is from the old 2007-2012 forum.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Given that your other MCL2AV fault was a 5v supply problem, and the muting circuit seems to use a 5v supply, perhaps whatever damaged TR13 also damaged TR100? Perhaps someone connected an incorrect power supply (or incorrect polarity) in the past.

I’m almost about to call you dr. diagnoses. When you mentinoed this it made me remember that in one of my first tires to fix the power part of it I suspected TR12 at first, and tried to exchange it with TR101 as it was the same type and had not to do with power supply.

Luckily I bought a supply of this type of transistor (BC848B) when I bought the replacement for TR13, if there was other faults.

I have replaced TR101, and also Tr100 as it actually had an old repair with some wire to fix a broken trace. I’m not sure if it made a difference yet, as I didn’t get the remote with me from the attic earlier and the little one is sleeping in the room below, so I can’t get it tonight.

One thing I noticed though is that the relay is clicking every time I move the unit just a little bit. I haven’t thought about that before, so it might also have done it before but the unit was always laying still when powered on. I might have to look in to that one of the comming days. Could be a loose connection of some kind

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Have you tried putting the MCL2AV in MCL2A mode (by holding down the TIMER button and pressing RESET (SHIFT MUTE) on the BL1000? If I do this with mine, then use SHIFT RADIO 6 to turn it on, the LED stays on and no sound comes out of the PL speaker. However, pressing the sensor’s MUTE button I can hear the MCL2AV’s relay clicking on and off. Perhaps this works for your mute button? I have then put the MCL2AV back in ‘2AV’ mode by holding down TIMER and pressing AV.Oh yeah that could be a good way to test it.

Ok, tried this now with both of the IR eye’s and the MCL2AV being stand alone or connected to the 1611 and the BC6. No way in any case will it respond to the timer + reset command or timer + AV for that matter. so no wiser on this matter. Of course my MCL2AV arrived with defects, so it might as well have other defects.

Regarding the numbering of the trancievers i found this in the MCL handbook:

It seems that the MCL2Axxx and corrosponding tranciever i named with the same type numbers (2045, 2046, 2047). So when the text says that the tranciever for the MCL2AV is  the same as on the MCL 2ABLI then the type number shouldn’t matter, unless of course it’s type 2045 as mentioned in the troubleshooting section.

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

To add to the confussion I just found this picture of a MCL2A on ebay with the same type number as my tranciever

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Madskp wrote:

We might be going down a deep rabbit hole here…..

I agree! Have you tried putting the MCL2AV in MCL2A mode (by holding down the TIMER button and pressing RESET (SHIFT MUTE) on the BL1000? If I do this with mine, then use SHIFT RADIO 6 to turn it on, the LED stays on and no sound comes out of the PL speaker. However, pressing the sensor’s MUTE button I can hear the MCL2AV’s relay clicking on and off. Perhaps this works for your mute button? I have then put the MCL2AV back in ‘2AV’ mode by holding down TIMER and pressing AV.

Oh yeah that could be a good way to test it. Will try that tomorrow

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

I am not at all sure about any of this – but I don’t think it has anything to do with the mute problem.

No I don’t think so either. It was just something that could be of interest to the overall functionality of the MCL2AV.

Guy wrote:

I did, however, find this in the MCL Handbook Troubleshooting Guide: I think the type label is inside the back cover – any idea what type yours are?  Of course, it was only valid when written hence I would suspect that later transceiver versions may well work! EDIT:  I just checked and the one connected to my MCL2AV is a Type 2046 and seems to work fine!

Ok interesting and could makes sense. But there might be some confusion in the numbering. In the servicemanual the MCL2A is called type 2046 with transceiver type 2021. No trancivever is mentioned for the MCL2AV, but there is a separate section for the tranceiver type 2021.

The one I got with the MCL2AV has type 2047, Serial 08412681, SW 2.0.

The other one is missing the shield with the badge, but has a number on the cardboard inlay which could be a serial number: 8920215.

We might be going down a deep rabbit hole here…..

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Ok just checked a picture I took of it, and J1 is cut, J2 not mounted, J3 mounted, and J4 seems intact

I cant find any mention og them in the service manual. trying to analyse a little about it: At J1 on the diagram Option 5/6 there is a dash over 5. Coild that mean option 5 if connected and option 6 is broken? However according to the Older MCL manual option 5 and is programable via remote. Could make sense if used without IR eye of course. But what does option tv on J4 mean then?

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

When going through the diagrams for the MCL2AV in the servicemanual i noticed some jumpers J4 (opt. TV) and J1 (opt. 5/6). Can’t find J2 and 3 right now.

There are 2 more jumpers (2 and 3) and all of the located with the chips under the metal casing

 

I know for sure the J1 is cut on mine, and If I remember correctly J3 is mounted, but not J2. Not sure if we can use it for something, but I will check up on the exact ones in use on my MCL2AV.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

I just found the MCL2 sensor that I previously repaired – luckily I had labelled it as being from the kitchen in my last house. It was right next to the cooker hence exposed to a bit of grease over the 30 years that it was fitted. Anyway, I have just dismantled it to have a look. You have to be a little careful prising the circuit board away from the front face, and I can see that I broke a few plastic clips last time!

Thanks for taking the time to do this extensive writeup of how you fixed the mute contact. I will try it out for good measure. However it might not be that as the red LED next to the button is turning on and off when I press the mute button. I might not have mentioned that earlier.

Looking at the diagrams in the servicemanual for the MCL2AV it seems like there are three mute “stages”. one at the MCL speaker input to the MCL2AV, on after the AUX port called mute AUX, and one after the input switching circuit called Line mute. It seems none of the work as I also tried it with the MCL setup where it had no function.

 

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

This is strange! I think the sensor relays the MUTE instruction to the MCL2AV via the data stream, and your IR is working so the mute should be as well. I did once have to take apart an MCL2 sensor to fix a faulty mute switch – from memory it simply wasn’t making the correct electrical contact when I pressed the button. So a faulty switch is not unheard off, but it seems a strange co-incidence that neither of yours work!

I think your assumption about the Mute function being through the data stream is true for the MCL2AV. On the diagram for the IR eye /Transreceiver in the service manual the yellow wire is connected to a output called mute on the chip. (note the servicemanual is for a type 2021 and the 2 I have is type 2047, so there might be differences)

However on the MCL2AV it seems like it is connected back to the grey wire which is is also an output of some kind on the IR board chip.

On the MCL2A diagram the yellow wire is conencted directly to the ciruit with the mute relay for the speaker, so it might be used differently on that unit.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Madskp wrote:

I will try to reverse the modification and try it again.

OK, so I got the modification reversed (I hope). I t was not just added components and wires but also cut traces on the PCB, but luckily I got the reference IR board to look at and the PCB is fairly simple to overview.

It is working now though sometimes a little unstable, but also on this one the mute button is not working. I wonder if it’s something on the MCL2AV that is actually not working.

Madskp wrote:

When I had the BM5500 connected I also med the connection from the MCL2Av to the 1611 and BC6, and control of the BM5500 sources from the BC6 works fine through all these  connections

I did one more experiment with this setup. I removed the speakerlink cable that carries data so only right channel connected from BM5500 to MCL2AV. Started the radio on the BM5500, and the tried to activate the MCL2AV with different audio commands. Both Radio, CD, Phone and Link A.tape (I still have the Beocord 3500  directly connected to the MCL2AV) would open the sound input from the MCL connection. So it looks like the MCL2AV when receiving and audio command will use 5-10 seconds to look if this source is available locally with datalink, and if not open the MCL connection, regardless of the source being available at the other end.

Guy wrote:
Madskp wrote: @Guy: One thing I don’t think you have tested is how the reaction to an AV + Video source command is from the BL3500  when connected to the 1611 and MCL2AV? Does it just open the video source on the 1611? Just tried that now (with no IR sensor on MCL2AV): BL3500 in Option 2 or 6: Behaves exactly as when selecting TV etc without AV first. Just opens the video source on the 1611.

I did some experimentation myself regarding this matter, and for one thing it might actually be the shift + radio + 1 (or A.AUX +1 on BEO4) command that should be used for this proposed scenario.

I tried to make a split cable connected to the MCL2AV’s AUX port and the 1611 and an iphone as input on the aux port. I got very mixed results, but 1 or 2 times I actually managed to get sound from the iphone connected to the AUX port back via the AUX port out to the 1611 and BC6. But i was very inconsistent regardless of option settings. I wonder if this is at all possible

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Madskp wrote:

Good to know that not nesecarily broken. For good meassure I will try to make a MCL cable and hook the MCL2AV up to my BM5500 to see if everything works as expected there. just found a bag with MCL cable and speakerlink connectors in my storage today. Also in the bag was an extra IR eye of the same tape as used with the MCL2AV just wired up with a minijack from when I used it with a Beoport many years ago. Made me remember that it came from a MCL2AV I had over 20 years ago, but didn’t know how to use at that time, so it probably ended up as E waste

So got the MCL cable soldered to the cable and hooked it up to the MCL2AV with just speakers connected to the PL outputs. Radio from the BM5500 going throug just fine, but the mute button on the IR eye still doesn’t work.

tried the other IR eye but it would not respond to IR. Opening it up it had som modification inside where the yellow wire was connected to an extra transistor. Don’t know what thats about, but I also have a cut of 7 pin din connector that was on its cable when I got it. The former owner was in B&O ‘s R&D department back then, so he might have used it for something fancy before I got it. I will try to reverse the modification and try it again.

When I had the BM5500 connected I also made the connection from the MCL2Av to the 1611 and BC6, and control of the BM5500 sources from the BC6 works fine through all these  connections

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

matador wrote:

Madskp wrote:

Looking forward to what that will bring to this thread

Precisely the reason why its good we dont live in the save neighborhood, we would being consider as the strange black box brotherhood with rituals far into the late night…

or accused of black box magic whitchery…

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

matador wrote:

Yes, you have a lot of fancy beocom triangles under table remotes, BUT YOU DON’T HAVE A ML EQUIPPED BEOSOUND! Guess what? I DO!

Looking forward to what that will bring to this thread 🙂

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Tignum wrote:

I am not actually using the phono input of the BM6500, I think it would just activate when the BM would have been connected directly to the main MasterLink network, when pressing N.RADIO on a remote somewhere. Same for the RADIO command – I assigned that to B&O radio on the Core and don’t want the BM6500 to start playing radio. With one BLC, my problem would be two sources to be activated at the same time.

Oh yes that makes sense. I am only trying to work things out in the older link systems for now, but there also seems to be many interesting possibilities of integrating the old stuff with newer systems

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Yes that would be a useful experiment, especially for one of the many BeoSounds with only one AUX socket (eg Ouverture), or with no datalink (eg BS9000 or BS3000/3200). I would imagine that some Beogram users would like to remote control their turntables using such a setup, (assuming you could add both BL1611 and MCL2AV). Unfortunately I don’t have an ML-equipped BeoSound or Ouverture to test it with!

Me neither. What I am unsure of is if the Beosound will just open the integrated AUX at any sound command that is not a internal source. Maybe if need to be setup in an option as a link room system so the 1611 + MCL2AV acts as the Master system.  We’ll have to see if anyone with a more modern BEO setup joins the experimentation in this thread

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

 

Guy wrote:

I had another quick look at this yesterday. I can only replicate the Mute button ‘lock up’ when the MCL2AV is in L.OPT 2.5, not 1.5. I used the BL3500 rather than a TV, and I could not get the same result every time. I think sometimes the result varied according to what order I did the Option settings (BL3500 before MCL2AV or the other way around), and I also think the behaviour changed depending on the order in which I then activated the devices! The IR sensors are so very sensitive – this makes it very difficult to cover/shield each sensor to simulate two rooms! I resorted to placing the MCL2AV and sensor under a thick duvet to avoid it receiving IR commands!

Ok so not so weird that I couldn’t get the mute button to work in my testings. Will still try it with the other IR eye I found and in a MCL system just to have a baseline for it.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Madskp wrote:

until I find a 15V power brick

Great work fixing the fault! If you intend to use it with passive speakers you could perhaps look for an MCL2P with its built in 15v power supply?

Thats right. Don’t know what the final use will be for it for now, but it sure has some possibilites

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Tignum wrote:

I use the second BLC to separate the PHONO input of the BM6500 from the N.RADIO source of the Core (same Beo4 command). So the BLC is actually a filter for the CD command. Would you believe that it could be done without? I really want to keep remote commands logical for my dear family members and use RADIO for N.RADIO also. I agree, pretty elaborate, but it works well.

ok that makes sense. Didn’t realise that you used the phono input on the BM6500. Im all in for logical commands ?

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Tignum wrote:

Today I finally replaced some unused coax wires with Cat7 cables and re-added my BeoMaster 6500 / BeoGram CD 7000 combo to my set-up. They are in the attic (study) and connected through a 1611 to go from MCL to ML, and a BLC to go from ML to NL. I made a little overview of the whole network :-).

Nice setup and great system diagram. I wonder why the need for two BLC’s in this setup though?

One little nit picky detail; the connection between the 1611 converter and the BM6500 is actually Datalink/Audio Aux Link and not MCL.

Location: Denmark

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