[Madskp]

matador wrote:

@Madskp Yes those solution are the ones we try to avoid. They use the PL mode from service “Menu 0 4 GO” and the speaker is turned off as soon as you touch any key on the remote. Volume is set from the source and to me the more important: you lose the sound adjustments from the BL3500. It is clearly much better to have the 1611 solution. But when you have it, adding an extra source for casual needs with the PL path is something that comes free and can be useful.

What I take from thoose solutions is the pins used in the DIN connecter for respectivly MCL and PL , not the use case.

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

I tried this and couldn’t find any way of selecting either of the BL1611’s dual-inputs when the Beoport is also connected to ML.  I tried various combinations of Beoport Option (0, 2, 4, 6) and BL3500 L.Option (0, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6) but had several conflicts as far as I am aware. At one point Beoport even locked up (the PC screen controls disappeared) and I had to do a complete re-install of the SW!

One should think this was supported as the official drawing from B&O shows the dual input, and a Beoport should be able to coexist with another audio master in the same installation. But of course if that drawing is before the Beoport was made things could have changed.

[Madskp]

I also have A Beoport and an old Mac, so I might have to dust these of to join this thread too

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

I am now trying a few other things on the Beoport and will then do those BL3500 MCL socket pin measurements.

Another research regarding this from on of Peter Pans drawings on Hifi4all, all in danish, Both examples is for connection of a 3.5 minijack to the DIN socket but without any power on functions.

First example is the MCL socket in LCS9000/BL3500 MK1. Again pin 2 is unused, and ground are on other pins.

The second example for the same connections to the powerlink socket of af BL3500 MK2. It looks very much like af normal powerlink connction with pin 2 in use,  He is writing that he has tried it on his own MK2 BL3500.

 

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

@ madskp. That all looks very promising. I may well have a look in the back of my ‘new’ BL3500 in the coming days and see what can be achieved, but I am worried about mucking it up! When I was playing around with injecting voltage into the BL1611 there were a couple of times that the ‘system’ seemed to lock up, and I had to unplug all the mains power for a few seconds to get it all to reset. Nevertheless now that I have seen how well BL3500 works, I am keen to find the parts to update its SW from 2.0 to 2.1. Basically I want the newer sources to be shown on the display, and it would be nice to have N.RADIO (rather than PHONO) showing when I connect my OneRemote. If I do find the SW upgrade Processor/PCB (as listed in the FAQ) I’ll be digging into the back of the BL3500 then, and will look at those old ‘MCL’ connections. We know Matador has looked for a BL3500 ‘on’ trigger in the past. One thing I would be keen to explore is whether turning ML off (using MENU MENU 0 9 GO, then up/down arrows) changes the behaviour when trying to trigger the BL3500 from the old MCL socket. Anyway all this is listed as ‘Test 10’ on my schedule, and I will report back here if I discover anything. The diagrams to which you have linked will be a good start!

one thing to look for without opening it could be to measure if pin 2 in the MCL/PL connector is connected to other ground pins or not

[Madskp]

I did some more research about the Beolab 3500 MCL/Powerlink connector. Browsing through the service manuals for respectivly the service manuals for the LCS 9000 (with MCL connector) and the Beolab 3500 (with Powerlink connector) I noticed a few things.

1) The servicemanual for the Beolab 3500 with powerlink connector is from serial number 19343452. Are your speakers above or belov this serial number?

2) In the specifications sections in the beginning for the service manuals:

– For the LCS9000 the MCL conenctor is shown and all pins assigned except pin 2 (pink) which is DC supply 7.5-8.5 Volts. This corresponds well with the fact that it has its own power supply. Also all pins are shown in the right places in this drawing.

– For the Beolab 3500 there is just a text string stating Beolink Wireless 1 (W1) 8 pin DIN connector and no drawing showing the pinout. I guess it’s B&O’s way of saying this conenctor is only intended for this purpose.

– What strikes me is that Keith wrote that the module with the MCL socket was not redesigned, but as noted before pin 2 was not connected in the MCL, and Pin 2 is ground on a powerlink connector. This could bed the reason for the statement about a fully wired Powerlink cable needed as this also has a ground on pin 7 whis is Data ground/shield on both MCL and Powerlink.

3) Looking at the wirering diagrams in the servicemanuals the external conenctors are not shown, but the conenctors between the different print boards are. Especially the conenction between the Plug PCB (the one with the ML and MCL/PL connector) and what is called the Cross field board:

– For the LCS 9000 the MCL and ML connections are shown, and on wire shown as not conencted (Pin 3 on the Plug PCB).

 

-For the BL3500 PL signals are shown instead of MCL, but more interesting this PIN 3 on the Plug PCB is now called SP ON. Guess that means speaker on and that is should be possible to turn it on with an external signal.

– Question is: Is it conencted in the Powerlink connector? I don’t know how easy it is to open a Bl3500, but it could be interesting to see if there is a direct connections to something in the Powerlink conenctor.

4) in the Service manual for the LCS 9000 the same block diagram as Keith show with the weird looking DIN connector, but also a full diagram of that PCB showing it the same way. Again it might be a typo as it onlys seems like Pin 2 (which is not used) is placed in the opposite end of the conenctor

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

So tonight I made an attempt at Test 12 – making use of the BL1611 AAL pin 6 datalink input. I don’t have any pure datalink source devices other than my BG6500 turntable and that is packed away so carefully that I am not prepared to get it out for this project! However, I do have a DVD1 for which I previously made a special SCART to 7-pin DIN cable for the project described here: https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/45162/327485.aspx#327485 Basically, the cable connects SCART data pin 8 to DIN pin 6, plus audio to DIN pins 3 and 5. It previously worked well to connect an extra ‘CD’ player (the DVD1) directly to my BC9500’s AUX/TV socket, which also uses pin 6 for data. Anyway, for this test I used the BL3500 as the controlling ML device and the DVD1 was connected to the BL1611’s AAL socket. Audio (a CD) played fine with a video source connected, but no datalink control of the DVD1 was possible (I couldn’t start up the DVD1, play, stop, or change tracks with the remote, hence had to use the DVD1’s front panel). However, when I tried a long-press of the Beo4’s ‘off’ button, the entire system did shut down including the DVD1. Hence some data is being passed from BL3500 to the DVD1 via the BL1611, but just not the full spectrum of normal datalink commands. I hope that Test 15 (Control of OneRemote radio) will be more successful, once I have made that (nameless) adaptor!

sounds more or less as the experience I had with the BV6, 1611 and Beocord 3500. Didnt try the long press off though. Will test that for my next testing session

[Madskp]

matador wrote:

Keith Saunders wrote:

Whilst a lot of people talk about the 8 pin din being a PowerLink socket we all know that is not really true. It just used the old MCL din socket so that a new module would not need to be designed.

I don’t understand. Apparently, MCL Beolabs can be started with a 5V trigger voltage. MK2 (or beyond a certain SW can’t). But it is often mentioned that the DIN socket was changed from MCL to Powerlink to comply with Beolink Wireless 1, even if the BLW1 guide say it must be connected through ML and not PL. So the question is what is this socket, what was it along the evolution of the speaker and what is it for? Please note that this is just out of curiosity since I now know that the 3500 will never be as better as with a 1611 to drive it!

I dont undestand it either. The MCL pinouts on the Beotech page has a DC supply of 7.5-8.5 Volt on pin 2 where powerlink on/off pins can be either pin 1 or 4. Furthermore MCL normally caries speaker level signals, where powerlink caries line level signals.

Im confused

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Quick report on Test 8: PL trigger of BL1611 Part A, BL2000: So I rigged up a 3v source (2x 1.5V cells). I then tested this with BL2000 (in L.OPT 6), injecting the voltage between pins 4 (+) and 2 of the BL1611’s PL socket with the usual two audio sources connected to AAL. With the BL2000 powered down, applying 3v does nothing. The BL2000 does not switch on. If playing an audio source, this is unaffected by voltage application. If playing a video source, with voltage application the BL2000 switches to an audio source. Having injected and then removed the voltage to the BL1611, it remains ‘audio source only’. I cannot then get a video source on the BL2000 with either the remote or the front panel. It stays like this until I disconnect the mains power to the BL1611, wait a few seconds (EDIT: minimum 10 seconds), re-connect mains power and wait a few seconds more. It then returns to normal dual input behaviour. Hence the PL trigger voltage seems to force BL1611 into audio mode which is only then cleared with a power cycle. Again, any suggestions for further testing are welcome whilst I repeat the above with BL3500. EDIT 2: I repeated the above with the BL2000 in L.OPT 0. No change to behaviour. I see no merit in trying L.OPTs 4 or 5.

Just a note. In my experiment I injected the power on pin 4 and 7, but as mentioned pin 2 and 7 is soldered together in my 1611, and conneted to the ground plane in the 1611. As you see some kind of reaction Im not sure if it will make any difference in your case. But if you have a multimeter handy you could try to measure if pin 2 is connected to the ground i one of the connectors just to verify.

Then again it might not be a thing with the BL2000 and BL3500 as they in all official use cases has to be turned on in the link room.

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Keith Saunders wrote:

Whilst a lot of people talk about the 8 pin din being a PowerLink socket we all know that is not really true. It just used the old MCL din socket so that a new module would not need to be designed.

I may be missing something, but that diagram shows pins 6 and 7 transposed with pins 4 and 5. Is that a typo?

to me it seems more like pin 2 is placed in the opposite end of the connector than it should be. But as it only is a block diagram and not a full one it might be a typo

 

[Madskp]

On the other hand i may just be a fully mounted powerlink cable, which was not common anymore at the release of the wireless 1.

 

[Madskp]

matador wrote:

Guy wrote:

I have no intention of going anywhere near a Wireless 1

Unless SW 3.3 make the powerlink socket behave like we are used to…

The text on the Beoworld product page regarding Beolink Wireless

suggest that the powelink socket in the BL3500 was first added after release of the Wireless 1 and that a special powerlink cable is needed

 

BeoLink Wireless 1 can be used with any pair of active loudspeakers except BeoLab 3500. BeoLab 3500 will later be updated to include a PowerLink socket to enable it to be compatible with BeoLink Wireless 1. It will not be possible to upgrade any existing BeoLab 3500 loudspeakers to include this new connection.

To ensure that the control data can pass as well as the sound signals the loudspeakers must be connected using a fully-mounted 3.5mm PowerLink cable. Only BeoLab 5 loudspeakers are supplied with this cable so users should order required cables.

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Thanks for all this Mads – very useful. I don’t hold out much hope for the BS1, but who knows with B&O!

Regarding the BS1, I will try to test it with a Beocord 3500 next time I visit my parents.

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

I decided to get a little better organised and prepare a list of setups tested, and those still to test. They are numbered so that we can refer to them easily. I have uploaded as a pdf but am happy to upload as a word doc if you want to amend for your own use.

Great idea.

regarding test 8: the powersource doesnt  has to be 5V. The specifications states >2.5V, so maybe a coincell battery or two AA will do for testing.

Regarding test 12: single components may not work because og the difference in Audio Link, And Audio Aux lin. Dont know which the DVD use though, so might be something working.

Regarding test 13: Take a look on the diagram of the BS1 in the servicemanual. Pin 7 is called dataOut, so might control a tape recorder. Pin 6 is called data in, so I guess its not two way communicationif it works at all. Actually pin 6 and 7 is stated as not connected in the specifications for the BS1. Therefore its only on the diagram its shown

[Madskp]

I did a little extra test with my now limited setup (I almost fell pressured to buy a BL3500 🙂 ).

I wanted to find out if unused Video functions on the BC6 would open pin 3 and 5 in the 1611, thus getting 2 audio inputs from the 1611 on a Beovision. No luck though, tried almost every video command , and unassigned those that were assigned to sources and power cycled inbetween.

On could also Argue that the BC6 has enough sound inputs, 4 if you count the scart connectors.

@Guy: if you are willing to try it, I would be very interested to hear what reaction the BL 2000 and BL3500 has if you apply some voltage to the powerlink connector on the 1611 as I did. Do they turn on, and maybe off when power is removed?

If so, with som extra electronics to sense if there is sound this could be a possibility for automatic turning on those speakers when Airplay/Cromecast/bluetooth on that is started.

 

 

[Madskp]

One interesting test with your new equipment couldbe if both the BL2000, and BL3500 can coexist with the 1611 and acces both sources

[Madskp]

Hope it didnt ruin you ?

But nice and interesting what new things we will learn

[Madskp]

Great news. Hope you can solve the hiss with optimized cabling.

Oh yeah forgot that you allready tried the 5v trick. Its wierd that its not a standard powerlink connector.

[Madskp]

What happens if you press Menu 0 3 Go while the 1611 is connected?

will one of the sound inputs from it be open? If not you might be good to go with that solution.

Another thought is the Power link connector on the Beolab 3500.

it should be able to be feed by pressing Menu Menu 0 4 Go according to this https://www.soundsheavenly.com/faq/using-beolab-3500-mk-2-sound-bar-speaker-dock/

But might not work when the Beolab 3500 is connected to ML. Might be Worth trying though.

another source https://www.reddit.com/r/BangandOlufsen/comments/rvr4f4/best_way_to_modernise_a_beolab_3500_soundbar_as/

indicates that the powerlink port. Could be activated with 5v. But again dont know if it would be possible while ML is connected

[Madskp]

Fair enough. We might also have come a little beyond your original topic.

Btw one thing I dont recall seen anyone mention regarding the powerlink connecter on the Beolab 3500 is a direct connection from a Beomaster/beosound/beovision powerlink output. It might have been up in some threads. Just dont recall reading about it.

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