Guy

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  • in reply to: Displaying Time on BeoLab 3500 #60027
    Guy
    Moderator

      The older (two-way IR) BC2300 behaves exactly like the newer one.  I connected it just to the BL1611 and BL3500, and at 1104hrs the time appeared on the BeoLab, showing 1900hrs.  I added the NL/ML Converter temporarily to the mix just to update the clock in the BC2300 and then removed it.  I powered down/up the BL3500 and the time disappeared, only to re-appear at 1200hrs (showing 1200hrs), clearly having received an ‘on the hour’ clock update message from the BC2300.

      As an aside (thread drift) I have noticed that with the system at stand-by, when selecting BC2300 sources in the link room, the speakers in the main room are turned on as well (in this case actually a Passive that clicks into life).  Option settings are correct and this happens with both BC2300s, and with a different BL1611.  It may be a limitation of using the BC2300 with a BL1611, but seems strange so I will investigate further.

      Location: Warwickshire, UK
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      in reply to: Displaying Time on BeoLab 3500 #60025
      Guy
      Moderator

        I am going to unplug everything overnight, then tomorrow I will just connect BC2300 via BL1611 to BL3500 and see if the correct time is displayed

        Overnight test complete.  I powered up the system at 0755hrs and the BL3500 clock burst into life at exactly 0800hrs.

        I will now connect my older BC2300 (with two way IR and proper built-in clock) and see if it behaves the same way.

        Location: Warwickshire, UK
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        in reply to: Displaying Time on BeoLab 3500 #60009
        Guy
        Moderator

          Is the NL/ML converter set as videomaster in this instance? Here I am just wondering how the ML system prioritize when 2 clock signals are available

          Yes it is set as V.Master.  It’s the first time I have known a V.Master send the time because as I mentioned earlier the BV10-32 didn’t.  But perhaps the NL/ML Converter sends the time in a format normally sent by an Audiomaster.  Or perhaps a videomaster time signal over-rides an audiomaster.

          So it appers that the clock in the BC2300 can be set by being in ML network with another device providing a clock signal if I understand this correctly?

          It would appear so.  But remember that this is a hidden clock because these later one-way BC2300s were not supposed to have a clock function; so perhaps that makes a difference.  I may dig out my earlier two-way BC2300 (with non-hidden built-in clock) and see if I can ‘correct’ the time using the NL/ML Converter.

          Does that mean that the clock in the display on the Beloab 3500 only is adjusted once an hour, or are the minutes ticking?

          The minutes are ticking.  It displays as a normal running clock, showing the correct hours and minutes.  If I remove the power from the BL3500 for a few seconds and then power up again, the time disappears but will appear again on the hour showing the correct time (i.e at 2100hrs).

          With the NL/ML Converter added to the ML system, if I remove the power from the BL3500 for a few seconds and then power up again, the time again disappears.  If I then select ‘push time to MasterLink products’ then the instant I press ‘Save’ the correct time re-appears on the BL3500 (eg 2138hrs).  I can also change the time zone on the NL/ML Converter and this will instantly change the BL3500 clock.

          (EDIT:  Once the BL3500 is showing the time, you can remove the ML cable and it will continue to run as a clock until it is powered down.  On power-up it needs an instant (NL/ML Converter) or hourly (BC2300) time signal to start showing the time again.)

          I am going to unplug everything overnight, then tomorrow I will just connect BC2300 via BL1611 to BL3500 and see if the correct time is displayed (on the hour).  I replaced the BC2300’s internal battery during my recent overhaul so I assume that this should keep the clock running while powered down.

          Location: Warwickshire, UK
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          Guy
          Moderator

            I checked my 5 BLC: all show todays logs only. Actually I do think they have pushed (minor) changes/update(s) to BLC’s before (without notice, without date change of latest update).

            Thanks for checking that and confirming.  I did think 9 years was a long time without a SW update!

            I use BLC’s a lot and the best and easiest way to controll and use is, to have only one ML product connected to a BLC which is integrated as Primary Beolink product to a NL device.

            That makes sense for the most ‘controllable’ setup.  I continue to be quite impressed with the Converter and look forward to expanding my system.

            Location: Warwickshire, UK
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            in reply to: Displaying Time on BeoLab 3500 #59995
            Guy
            Moderator

              As described over in this thread, I have been experimenting with a NL/ML Converter, initially connected to Essence Mk2 and the BC2300 used earlier in this thread, and then adding an ML link room using the BeoLab 3500.

              I thought I would test the ability of the NL/ML Converter to ‘push time to ML products’, which is one of the setting in its System Menu.  As soon as I selected this option, the correct time appeared in the BL3500 – not really surprising but I am glad that this worked.

              I then wondered if the NL/ML Converter had also updated the time on what I earlier suspected is a ‘hidden clock’ in my BC2300 – used earlier in this thread to send the incorrect time to the BL3500.

              I disconnected the NL/ML Converter from the ML setup, and temporarily removed the power from the BL3500.  The time disappeared.  However, on the hour (at 1200hrs GMT) the correct time appeared on the BL3500.  I can only assume that this time signal is coming from the BC2300.

              So it would seem that my  late model, one-way IR BC2300 does indeed have a built-in clock although it is not easy to adjust!  This clock does appear to ‘broadcast’ the time over ML every hour on the hour.   I can’t however think of any other devices (other than BL3500) that would normally make use of this information!  There may well be other Beomasters/Centers that have a similar hidden clock.

              Location: Warwickshire, UK
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              Guy
              Moderator

                The NL/ML Converter sends the correct time to the BeoLab 3500 for display (once selected in in Converter menu)

                The NL/ML Converter would also appear to have updated the time on the ‘hidden’ clock in my one-way BC2300!  Read about that in this thread.

                Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                Guy
                Moderator

                  I have just been testing further NL/ML Converter functionality while I have the equipment set up:

                  • Firstly I used ‘sources visible on ML’ to set ML sources ‘TV’ and ‘DTV’ as Essence NL sources ‘B&O Radio’ and ‘Music’ respectively (Music accessing tracks from my QNAP NAS).  I can select/control these using Beo4 on the BC2300 – using TV/DTV source selection.
                  • I added an ML BeoLab3500 ‘link room’ and get the same Beo4 functionality there.  Interestingly I can listen to an Essence source in the link room whilst listening to BC2300 sources in the main room.
                  • The NL/ML Converter sends the correct time to the BeoLab 3500 for display (once selected in in Converter menu)
                  Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                  Guy
                  Moderator

                    XavierItzmann wrote: This, plus the concern raised months ago that the C’s poor old memory is constantly being rewritten to with useless failure log messages —thus condemning the device to an early, unnecessary death— tells us that the C is probably not long for this world.

                    I must have missed this concern because I didn’t have a BLC when it was raised.  It’s not ideal but can’t you just go into the BLC’s ‘Tools’ menu occasionally and clear the system log?  (Having said that, the only entries in my BLC system log are from today and I don’t remember clearing it after my experiments last week)

                    I just checked the NL/ML Converter’s ‘System Log’ today and all the 9 Oct messages have disappeared.  Perhaps one of the recent SW updates* makes the Converter clear the log data daily to avoid filling the memory?

                    * EDIT: Actually I don’t think there have been any SW updates since 2015, so now not so sure about this!

                    Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                    Guy
                    Moderator

                      And so I re-confirmed that even if you only have one device connected to the BLC, you can’t get the app to display an icon of the BS5, even if you so set it on the BLC’s settings.

                      Many thanks for that confirmation.

                      This, plus the concern raised months ago that the C’s poor old memory is constantly being rewritten to with useless failure log messages —thus condemning the device to an early, unnecessary death— tells us that the C is probably not long for this world.

                      I must have missed this concern because I didn’t have a BLC when it was raised.  It’s not ideal but can’t you just go into the BLC’s ‘Tools’ menu occasionally and clear the system log?  (Having said that, the only entries in my BLC system log are from today and I don’t remember clearing it after my experiments last week)

                      Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                      Guy
                      Moderator

                        workaround: if you add the Essence mkII to the setup, you could add the ML sources of the BC2300 as Essence mkII sources (In the Essence configuration: Link to other products; Connect to primary Beolink product; check the boxes for the available sources in Content-Sources-Local) Then it is possible to start the BC2300 Radio on the Essence mkII

                        That works – many thanks indeed @Carolpa

                        FM Radio from the BC2300 is now playing on the speaker connected to the Essence, and I am able to use the app to change stations and play/control the CD player too.

                        Just one anomaly, even after selecting (what I have named) ‘FM RADIO BC2300’ as a source for the Essence mkII  in the app, the app then shows the source as ‘B&O Radio’ (with the station logo blank, obviously).

                        Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                        Guy
                        Moderator

                          Thanks @patcherley  – being very new to the NL/ML Converter setup pages I was convinced that I was doing something wrong, but it would appear to be normal behaviour.

                          Many thanks also @Carolpa

                          It’s useful to hear that Radio sources seem to have been skipped – understandable when you consider Encore/9000c.  I will set up the system later this week, re-connect the Essence and try the helpful workaround in your last paragraph.  I will report back, hopefully with positive results! 😀

                          Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                          in reply to: Beogram 4500 – bypass the RIAA #59927
                          Guy
                          Moderator

                            Seriously, just connect the pins 6 and 7 on the DIN plug and you will get remote control through the Aux channel.

                            I don’t think this will work, because being an RIAA equipped deck the datalink will already be on pin 7 and he already tried Tape 2.  I think that when plugged into Tape 2 his Beogram 4500 will be controlled only after selecting PHONO on the remote, but of course the audio is not then connected.

                            EDIT:  Peter, you must be experiencing a little ‘deja vu’ 😀 – see https://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/32271.aspx

                            Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                            in reply to: Beogram 4500 – bypass the RIAA #59924
                            Guy
                            Moderator

                              I can’t vouch for the audio quality (I suspect it would be poor), but if you don’t want  to modify the BG4500 you could always feed it’s output through something like this and then in to the PHONO input:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154567034473

                              But you would have to convert DIN to Phono plugs (and reverse) and feed the datalink connect from DIN pin 7 of the input to DIN pin 6 of the output.

                              Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                              in reply to: Beogram 4500 – bypass the RIAA #59922
                              Guy
                              Moderator

                                Do you know the way how to bypass the preamp of the Beogram 4500, please?

                                As a Silver Member you are able to download the Service Manual here:  https://beoworld.org/?a=download&key=cae6a88b27cd8dd84ce21c7a01e06b95

                                As you can see, many Beograms of that era (both with and without RIAA) share the same service manual because they are similar internally.  Basically, you want to disconnect/bypass PCB4 totally, and reconnect with the ‘non-RIAA’ muting circuitry as shown on page 2-1 in the little dotted area labelled ‘in versions without RIAA’.  The circuit diagram also shows that the datalink connection should be  moved from pin 7 to pin 6 as I mentioned earlier.  I haven’t attempted this myself, but if you are confident with hifi electronics it should be no problem.

                                EDIT:  There’s a photo attached to McGruse post here that shows a BG4500 with RIAA removed – it may be some help! https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/26480/211502.aspx#211502

                                Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                                in reply to: Beogram 4500 – bypass the RIAA #59915
                                Guy
                                Moderator

                                  If bypassing the RIAA to use the BC9500’s PHONO input, you will also need to move the Beogram’s datalink connection from DIN pin 7 to DIN pin 6.   Non-RIAA-equipped Beograms use pin 6 for datalink, whereas RIAA-equipped use pin 7 (the same as Tape).  The Tape 2 input socket on BC9500 expects datalink on pin 7, and the PHONO input socket expects datalink on pin 6..

                                  Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                                  Guy
                                  Moderator

                                    I assume there is some sort of conflict between ML RADIO (which I want to be the BC2300 FM radio) and the B&O RADIO (effectively internet radio) that is part of the app. Anyone know if I can change settings to access the BC2300’s FM RADIO via the B&O app? EDIT: I have tried putting the BC2300 in A.OPT 0, and then adding an IR sensor to the NL/ML Converter – I have IR mapped the ML sources. I can select all mapped BC2300 sources (including RADIO) using the Beo4, but the RADIO source still does not appear in the app.

                                    Not really sure, but what if you map Radio to another source in the NL/ML converter?

                                    I have tried that – or at least I think I set up up to try that!  I think the problem is that under ‘App Settings’ I have to set ‘Product Controlled by Apps’ to ‘BeolinkConverter NL/ML with speakers’, otherwise I am unable to control anything on the BC2300 with the app, even CD and A.AUX.  I think this is the problem/conflict because the NL/ML Converter expects RADIO to be ‘B&O radio’, but still looks for (and selects) CD or AUX on the ML network.  With the IR sensor attached to the Converter, if I open the B&O app on my phone, and then use the Beo4 to select RADIO (or an alternative mapped command), then the BC2300 does switch to FM RADIO, but the app on my phone changes source to ‘B&O Radio’.  The other thing I an unable to do is control the BC2300 volume using the app, whereas I could do this when the Converter was attached to my BV10-32.

                                    If I change the ‘Product Controlled by Apps’ to the logical option of  ‘ML Audiomaster’ I have no control whatsoever over the BC2300.  This could well be a limitation* of using a BL1611, which is effectively being the ML Audiomaster for the BC2300.   I still don’t have a true ML Audiomaster (with FM RADIO such as Ouverture) with which to experiment.

                                    Anyway, it’s not a big deal but it was fun experimenting with the control possibilities across several decades of B&O equipment! 😀

                                    * I have attached a NL/ML Compatible B&O Products list which sadly gives little detail of BL1611 limitations but suggests I was lucky to get any control!

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                                    Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                                    Guy
                                    Moderator

                                      Hello, I have an side question on this topic. My converter is placed in the study and connected to speakers, it is used as a link room device AND to connect ML sources to NL units and reverse. So it’s set as Source center. Everything works fine with remote control, but unfortunately I cannot choose the converter as device controlled by app in it’s settings. Any idea?

                                      If I set mine as Source Centre I cannot chose the converter as ‘device controlled by app’.

                                      In your ML network, do you have a ML Videomaster and/or Audiomaster?  If there is no other ML Videomaster, you should be able to set the NL/ML converter as V.Master which will then allow you to select the converter as ‘device controlled …’.  Likewise for A.Master.

                                      EDIT:  If you do already have V.Master and A.Master on your ML network, then I think setting your converter as A.Slave will allow you to choose the converter as ‘device controlled by app’, but I am unsure what effect this will have on the rest of your system control!

                                      Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                                      Guy
                                      Moderator

                                        So today I am trying the NL/ML converter connected just to my BC2300 via a BL1611.  I have removed my Essence Mk2 from the setup (and B&O app) to avoid conflicts.

                                        The converter is set as a V Master and I have ‘experience mapped to NL’ the three BC2300 sources RADIO, CD and A.AUX.

                                        I can use the B&O App to select the BC2300’s CD (which starts playing) and can also select A.AUX which switches the BC2300 to AUX.  I can also power-down the BC2300 using the app.

                                        What I can’t do is select RADIO (the BC2300’s FM radio) using the App – as you can see below it doesn’t even show up as a Music source.

                                        Screenshot 2024-10-03 at 14.51.25

                                        I assume there is some sort of conflict between ML RADIO (which I want to be the BC2300 FM radio) and the B&O RADIO (effectively internet radio) that is part of the app.  Anyone know if I can change settings to access the BC2300’s FM RADIO via the B&O app?

                                        EDIT:  I have tried putting the BC2300 in A.OPT 0, and then adding an IR sensor to the NL/ML Converter – I have IR mapped the ML sources.  I can select all mapped BC2300 sources (including RADIO) using the Beo4, but the RADIO source still does not appear in the app.

                                        Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                                        Guy
                                        Moderator

                                          In the old BeoMusic App the BV 10 is displayed as an icon. In the new app this functionality seems to be no longer active, as I, as well, get only the BLC on display. I have not set up my BLGW properly for all my rooms, yet. However, for those I did, I get e. g. the BS 9000 icon in the respective room, either in the BeoLink 2 or in the BeoLiving app. So I guess, it is likely to get the BV 10 icon as well in both of them. Kind regards, Rolf

                                          Thanks Rolf – that’s useful to know and as I suspected.

                                          Location: Warwickshire, UK
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                                          in reply to: Connect Essence MKII with old IR eye? #59696
                                          Guy
                                          Moderator

                                            A quick update …

                                            I now have an NL/ML converter, so I today connected my round ‘Timer version’ IR sensor and it controlled the converter perfectly, hence I have proved that there is nothing wrong with my IR sensor or RJ45 wiring.  I tried the IR sensor again connected to the Essence and it still didn’t work, despite yesterday’s Essence SW update.

                                            It might be time to delve inside the Essence as @madskp suggested a couple of posts ago.  I have limited time at present and need to prepare my motorbike for its MOT tomorrow, so I will report back here when I have news.

                                            Location: Warwickshire, UK
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