BL3500 connected via BLC [SOLVED]

[Kim]

I’ve for a few years now enjoyed having my BL3500 connected to the default ML-network to audio from my Moment including my Beosystem 6500 (via MCL->BLC NL/ML) would now toying around with the thought of connecting the BL3500 via a BLC  NL/MLto make it multi-room capable to be able to play whatever I like regardless what else is being played on the ML-network. But, when connecting the BL3500 to a BLC NL/ML the BL3500 won’t react in any way. Reconnecting directly to the ML-network; it works fine.

What is it that I’m missing out here with regards to the BLC NL/ML configuration?

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[Guy]

I think the problem could be that there is no audio or video master on the ML side, hence no power being supplied to ML.

In this sort of situation you need an ML Power Box – see attached from the BeoLink Handbook: (click to enlarge)

EDIT:  See also this thread about the Powerbox used with BL3500: https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/16217/141383.aspx

Location: Warwickshire, UK

My B&O Icons:

[Kim]

Hello Guy! Well, I do have both Audio/Video master on the ML side. As a refresh, you might remember this thread in the old forum which helped me out to get the Beosystem 6500 linked to my ML-network. While the BS6500 system isn’t on the below diagram, it’s the BL3500 in my office that I want to re-connect via a BLC to be able to play audio sources regardless what is being played on the ML-network.

Next what wanted to try out if it’s then possible to join the BL3500-BLC to an existing multi-room device such as Beosound Level. This is seconday, so for now first problem to solve if it’s possible to get the BL-3500 to play. But, I hope that the above diagram and previous thread gives a bit of insight of how the system is setup.

[Edit Update]

[EDIT Update#1] I currently have the following BLC active in the network were BLC-BV10 acts as A-Master:

1. BLC-BV10: 1st BLC (ML Role: A-Master) device used to connect the Beosound Moment with BV10.
2. BLC-Bs6: 2nd BLC added to get the Beosystem 6500 connected to the ML-network via Beolink 1611.
3. BLC-BS9: 3rd BLC (ML Role: A-Slave) to connect the Beosound 9000 to avoid having two A-Masters.
4. BLC-BL3: 4th BLC (ML Role: A-Slave) to be used for the BL3500.

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[Madskp]

If I understand correctly your BL3500 will connect directly to a BLC thus being the only ML  unit in that ML chain?

if that is correct then as Guy also point out you will need something to supply the correct voltages in that ML chain.this can either be

– A ML audio system

– A ML TV

– A ML powerbox

– or a Beolink Converter 1611

In my opinion the last one will be the cheapest and most simple solution.

Location: Denmark

[carolpa]

Kim wrote:

BLC-BV10: 1st BLC (ML Role: A-Master) device used to connect the Beosound Moment with BV10.
BLC-Bs6: 2nd BLC added to get the Beosystem 6500 connected to the ML-network via Beolink 1611.
BLC-BS9: 3rd BLC (ML Role: A-Slave) to connect the Beosound 9000 to avoid having two A-Masters.
BLC-BL3: 4th BLC (ML Role: A-Slave) to be used for the BL3500.

Guy and Madskp are right.
the essence is your misinterpretation of the “A.Master” and “A.Slave” setting of a BLC.

On the NL-side there are NO differenses between devices, so all devices are equal, no masters no slaves.
On ML side there, you must have or a V.Master, A.Master or both.
That said, the master and slave settings for the BLC´s are for the ML connected devices of THAT BLC.

So setting a BV10 as V.Master on one BLC doesn’t mean your complete system (NL & ML) has a V.Master. It means de ML string connected to that BLC sees the BLC acts as V.Master in that ML string.

Thus to have the BL3500 working correctly you should follow up one of the proposed solutions.

[Kim]

Right, this was the lack of my understanding that each ML-network built up “behind” the BLC also needs audio or video master on the ML-network representing the BL3500 which I agree then is easiest to fix by connecting the BL3500 to a BLC 1611. I’ve in the past always thought that one needed one primary A/V Master in the whole network but of with the BLC NL/ML I actually segment of a piece of the ML-network on it’s on which needs to be powered.

So the full connection chain will then be BL3500 connected via ML-cable to BLC NL/ML and then the BLC 1611 connected (via Master Link ML or RJ45) as well to the BLC NL/ML (which also could be a ML Power Box).

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[Kim]

Got hold of 1611 which is not also connected to the BLC together with BL3500 which now makes the BL3500 react to the remote; good stuff!

Next step is then to get the configuration correct and for now I don’t get any reaction from other units; so something is missing and I’m kind of getting blind to what I’ve eventually missed. So the idea is then to be able to 1) pull audio from the BV10, Moment, etc., including being able to use the B&O app to play audio (Deezer) to the BL3500. Here is how the current config looks like:

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[Madskp]

You might want to set theBLC as A.master, V.Master or AV.master

On the tab: “sources visible to ML” you will have to define what ML source names your BV10and Moment sources should have when controlled from the BL3500

Location: Denmark

[Kim]

Right, so since the BLC is it’s own little ML it needs to have any of the A.master, V.Master or AV.master set and once I’ve done and tweaked the “Source visible to ML”; I could now play CD’s from BS9000 and play cassette from BS6500. But, when trying to play TuneIn (Radio) or Music (N.MUSIC) from the Moment then the BL3500 quickly indicate source and then powers off (including that it also powered off the BS6500 stereo) all other units in the ML-network. To be mentioned is that the Beolink 1611 has fw 1.3 and whether that is an issue or not… So, half there 😀

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[Madskp]

Kim wrote:

But, when trying to play TuneIn (Radio) or Music (N.MUSIC) from the Moment then the BL3500 quickly indicate source and then powers off (including that it also powered off the BS6500 stereo) all other units in the ML-network.

I have not tried getting sources across 2 BLC’s myself as I only have one, but if thinking in ML termonlogy it sounds logical that if you switch to another source then you turn of the currently playing source, although that should not happen if the source is in use in another room. Does this happen both when the BS6500 has been started from another room and if has been started from the BL 3500, or only in one of the cases?

Kim wrote:

To be mentioned is that the Beolink 1611 has fw 1.3 and whether that is an issue or not…

I have yet to see or hear about another software version of the 1611 converter, so I would not think that as the issue.

Location: Denmark

[carolpa]

Be aware that in the whole system you only can have one CD, one A.Tape, one Radio, etc. to be started with a remote. That’s the one programmed in the BLC. If another BLC has also a CD player connected, then it should be programmed as another source. If you have two BLC’s with different CD sources IR programmed as CD, which you want to start with a remote,  and you give the CD c0mmand. you’ll end up with a conflict.

On the otherhand if you’re using the B&o app this limitation doesn’t occur.
For example: with the app or my Halo’s I can start a BS9000, Beosystem 7000 (all sources), the Beocenter 2, my BS3000 and a Beosystem 4500 (all seperate connected to a different BLC).

This is possible because 1) ML products are primary and secondary linked to BS Core’s or BS Essense’s mkII, 2) BeoLiving Intelligence.

[Kim]

@Madskp: Thanks, don’t think I can recall that I’ve seen anything never; but just wanted to make sure.

@Carolpa: Yes, I’m aware when using standard Beo4 remote that I can only have one, so in my case I’m only using BS9000 as the only CD-source and the BS6500 CD isn’t mapped in any way, only the A.TAPE, A.AUX (which has a incoming DAC) and PHONO (hence way I’ve re-mapped N.RADIO to be able to use the turntable). So all BLC’s has the same the same IR-mapping shown above in the previous config screen from the BLC-BL35.

Now, might be very well something wrongly configured now when adding another BLC (BLC-BL35) when trying to 1) have a multiroom zone with the BL3500 and wanting to pull the audio from the various sources were the BLC-BV10 is the unit which used for the BS Moment; here is the configuration for this BLC unit:

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[carolpa]

Your NL network:

1. Moment
2. BLC – BV10 connected. set as AMaster
3. BLC – BS9000 connected, set as VMaster (or ASlave if no speakers are connected)
4. BLC – T1611 – BS6500 connected. set as VMaster (or ASlave if no speakers are connected)

this is correct?

Does iTunes on the Moment start on a N.Radio command or on the Radio command?

Could you confirm the IR mapping on all BLC are the same and correct?

[Kim]

@Carolpa Almost, but and I’ll use the same naming as previous used with a bit more description:

1. BLC-BV10 (ML Role: A-Master) – My first BLC which was setup to allow Moment to use speakers connected to BV10.
2. BLC-BS6 (ML Role: A-Slave) – 2nd BLC and 1611 which was used to together with 1611 for the Beosystem 6500.
3. BLC-BS9 (ML Role: A-Slave) – 3rd BLC used together with BS9000 to be able to play CD (if connected directly to ML I could get it to work)
4. BLC-BL35 (ML Role: A-Master) – 4th BLC for BL3500 and 1611 which is the unit that I’m able to play CD but not able to trigger either N.RADIO/N.MUSIC.

To play Deezer via the Moment I use N.RADIO and for TuneIn I use RADIO since I’ve re-mapped N.RADIO to trigger the Beosystem 6500 turntable since B&O re-used the old PHONO for N.RADIO. If connect the BL3500 directly to MasterLink network it will play Deezer/TuneIn from the Moment inkluding A.TAPE/PHONO etc from Beosystem 6500 and CD from Beosystem 9000. But, once I connect the BL3500 via the BLC(-BL35) together with the 1611 I so far have only been able to play CD from the Beosystem 6500, but no other sources.

And Yes all BLC units have the same IR mapping.

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[carolpa]

With my questions I was searching for conflicts.

Your response learned me that you should “re-think” your setup. Let NL be central and ML attached sources.

How is your BL3500 BLC set? is the above setting s still in place?

[Kim]

@carolpa: Yes, the BL3500 BLC set is still in place so nothing has changed. How would you deploy and setup the various BLC’s ti allow the NL be the central – not sure I understand how it would be possible to connect in a different way, or?

Should I understand that I make my BLC-BV10 the primary unit and then change so that the primary connection is set to the BLC-BV10 and the seconday BLC to whatever would be of interest for the specific BLC. Something like this then for the BLC-BL35:

Doing so I’m able then to play both CD (BS9000) and InTune (Moment) but neither able to get it to play N.MUSIC or pulling the normal audio from the TV-tuner. Unfortunate when I try to use the B&O App to play Deezer I get a brief error message saying – “This product does not support Deezer in the Bang & Olufsen App. To use this product with Deezer, use the Deezer app.”. What does work is that I can start N.MUSIC to the BL3500 via a for example Beo4 remote which I then able to see that is playing in the B&O App indicating that the source is Music from Beosound Moment and can’t control anything, meaning I can’t init play, pause or stop the music, only able to see what is being played from the Moment including that I can see device menu that music is being played on the BLC-BL35.

So to me it seems that it’s not possible to use setup a multi-room using a BLC and BL3500 since the B&O App won’t support it.

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[carolpa]

Kim wrote:

@carolpa: Yes, the BL3500 BLC set is still in place so nothing has changed. How would you deploy and setup the various BLC’s ti allow the NL be the central – not sure I understand how it would be possible to connect in a different way, or?

Should I understand that I make my BLC-BV10 the primary unit and then change so that the primary connection is set to the BLC-BV10 and the seconday BLC to whatever would be of interest for the specific BLC. Something like this then for the BLC-BL35:

Doing so I’m able then to play both CD (BS9000) and InTune (Moment) but neither able to get it to play N.MUSIC or pulling the normal audio from the TV-tuner. Unfortunate when I try to use the B&O App to play Deezer I get a brief error message saying – “This product does not support Deezer in the Bang & Olufsen App. To use this product with Deezer, use the Deezer app.”. What does work is that I can start N.MUSIC to the BL3500 via a for example Beo4 remote which I then able to see that is playing in the B&O App indicating that the source is Music from Beosound Moment and can’t control anything, meaning I can’t init play, pause or stop the music, only able to see what is being played from the Moment including that I can see device menu that music is being played on the BLC-BL35.

So to me it seems that it’s not possible to use setup a multi-room using a BLC and BL3500 since the B&O App won’t support it.

Skip the primary and secundairy connection altogether. All my BLC’s are set primary and secondary to themselve! This will make the operation unnessecary  complex.

But is the BL3500 BLC still set as ASlave? If so, then this is incorrect! ASlave is used if a sole ML device without speakers connected, adds sources to NL. The BLC should be set as AVmaster.

You should be able to play Deezer on the Moment and JOIN a BLC. But how to start Deezer on the BL3500 then? A question to be cracket.

[Kim]

carolpa wrote:

Skip the primary and secundairy connection altogether. All my BLC’s are set primary and secondary to themselve! This will make the operation unnessecary  complex.

But is the BL3500 BLC still set as ASlave? If so, then this is incorrect! ASlave is used if a sole ML device without speakers connected, adds sources to NL. The BLC should be set as AVmaster.

You should be able to play Deezer on the Moment and JOIN a BLC. But how to start Deezer on the BL3500 then? A question to be cracket.

I’ve changed the configuration so that the BLC-BL35 points to itself. This allows it to pull both InTune (via IR commands for RADIO and CD). If I leave the primary and secondary fields empty, it behaves the same way. However, there’s still an issue with getting N.MUSIC (Deezer) – Choosing N.MUSIC just makes a click noise from the speaker and indicates N.MUSIC but stills plays either RADIO (InTune) and if I play CD (from BS9000) and choosing N.MUSIC but no audio.

If I understand correctly, adding a primary would make a specific BLC act as a “slave” to another BLC. How should the secondary connection be interpreted? Is it simply meant to allow a BLC to be linked to two specific units it should communicate with? I just want to understand the intended usage of the primary and secondary connections. I’ve browsed the NL Handbook but can’t say that I found anything specific talking about the roles and explaining; or I just missed it.

No, for now I’ve set the BLC-BL35 as A.Master and what would the different be to set it AV.Master?

For now, beside getting certain multi-room effect but not getting the B&O app to play along was a bummer. Just wondering if it ever worked?

 

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[carolpa]

Kim wrote:

carolpa wrote:
Skip the primary and secundairy connection altogether. All my BLC’s are set primary and secondary to themselve! This will make the operation unnessecary  complex.

But is the BL3500 BLC still set as ASlave? If so, then this is incorrect! ASlave is used if a sole ML device without speakers connected, adds sources to NL. The BLC should be set as AVmaster.

You should be able to play Deezer on the Moment and JOIN a BLC. But how to start Deezer on the BL3500 then? A question to be cracket.

I’ve changed the configuration so that the BLC-BL35 points to itself. This allows it to pull both InTune (via IR commands for RADIO and CD). If I leave the primary and secondary fields empty, it behaves the same way. However, there’s still an issue with getting N.MUSIC (Deezer) – Choosing N.MUSIC just makes a click noise from the speaker and indicates N.MUSIC but stills plays either RADIO (InTune) and if I play CD (from BS9000) and choosing N.MUSIC but no audio.

Just to clearify: with a remote you give the BL3500 the N.Music command? Maybe someone else can clearify is Deezer can be expanded to ML products?

If I understand correctly, adding a primary would make a specific BLC act as a “slave” to another BLC. How should the secondary connection be interpreted? Is it simply meant to allow a BLC to be linked to two specific units it should communicate with? I just want to understand the intended usage of the primary and secondary connections. I’ve browsed the NL Handbook but can’t say that I found anything specific talking about the roles and explaining; or I just missed it.

Primary/secundary –   the sources of the, primary/secondary  linked, NL product are  shared with the linked to product. For example I set the BS7000 BLC as primary linked and the BS3000 BLC as secondaty to my BS Shape. Now the sources of the BS7000 and the BS3000 are local sources of my Shape; see picture.

In principle your Moment should be able to do this also (but with all the sw issues in the past I’m not sure it still does).

No, for now I’ve set the BLC-BL35 as A.Master and what would the different be to set it AV.Master?

Technical speaking because the ML-string on this BLC doesn’t have a A.Master nor a V.Master you want to access ALL NL connected (and made available), thus as well audio as video sources. Then you have to set the BLC as AVMaster.

For now, beside getting certain multi-room effect but not getting the B&O app to play along was a bummer. Just wondering if it ever worked?

It worked fine. But since the latest changes not everything is working as before, but still………..

 

 

[Kim]

carolpa wrote:

Just to clearify: with a remote you give the BL3500 the N.Music command? Maybe someone else can clearify is Deezer can be expanded to ML products?

Correct, I’m using a Beo4 remote in the office and triggering the N.Music command which currently does nothing; but if I check on another BL3500 connected directly to ML it plays the music as expected.

And yes, what ever B&O did with 7.x app they broke a lot of things, in the past I quickly use the app to pick either Deezer or DLNA as source to be played, so as you say most likely B&O App v7.x is to be blamed here for not working proper. And as already mentioned, currently the B&O App indicates that it’s not supported:

Location: Malmo, Sweden

[Author]

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