[Madskp]

Todays testing was with mixed results

I have read up on the option settings in the Masterlink handbook, both the older one called System Manual 89 90 Master Control Link 2, and the newer Master Control Link handbook.

Guy wrote:

Did you try various option settings? I see from the MCL Handbook that older versions of the MCL2AV have double option settings: You set L.OPT 0, 1 or 2 and then L.OPT 5 of 6 in addition. These are then expressed in the manual as L.OPT 1.5 etc, with factory (default) being L.OPT 2.5.

This was only mentioned in the older of the 2 manuals. In the newer one option programming of MCL2AV wasn’t even mentioned, even though it is shown in setups with af TV. But i might be because the Option 2.5 covers most use cases as it also defaults to option 2 when the IR eye is not present (which might be true in many cases when a TV is also present in the same room).

I tried a little back and forth with option settings with mixed results. I think I will have to to a more controlled testing where I take notes for the different scenarios.

What I really cant figure is if the TV should  have option 5 as a Link TV or option 2, as it’s not a link TV in this setup. I haven’t had any luck with the TV in option 1. It seems like I loose all control, but will try it again in next test being sure that both the MCL2AV and the TV is in option 1.

Guy wrote:

I am not sure how relevant it is, but the ‘SHIFT RADIO’ followed by a number (or AUX followed by a number), is also used by other B&O eqpt to select various aux inputs. For instance, or my BC9500 I can select the following from its front panel: AUX 1 – TV AUX 2 – V.TAPE AUX 3 – SAT (or DTV) AUX 4 – CDV (or DVD) AUX 5 – V.TAPE.2 AUX 8 – MICROPHONE

It’s highly relevant. In one of my test’s today (dont remember the option settings, have to take notes) I could use AV + TV to turn on the PL output of the MCL2AV and Shift + Radio + 7 to switch back to sound on only TV.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

If I understand you correct it might be the 1611 Beolink converter you are looking for. Take a look in this rather long thread

https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beolab-3500-and-1611-converter-settings/page/4/

it will give both a audio and a video source availeble on Masterlink.

Meaning you can from a Beovision with masterlink press any audiosource button and the 1611 Beolink converter will activate the correct input pins (1, 4 and 2 for audio) in its datalink connector.

Also see Matadors very informative drawing where it is used with a Beolab 3500 as a stand alone solution https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beolab-3500-and-1611-converter-settings/page/4/#post-14017

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Did you try various option settings? I see from the MCL Handbook that older versions of the MCL2AV have double option settings: You set L.OPT 0, 1 or 2 and then L.OPT 5 of 6 in addition. These are then expressed in the manual as L.OPT 1.5 etc, with factory (default) being L.OPT 2.5.

Seems I will have to dive deeper into these option settings. only read about it in the MCL2 installation manual, but he MCL handbook might have more info.

Guy wrote:

I find this a bit strange because I have seen setups in the manual where PL speakers are connected direct to the MCL2AV and there is also a linked TV. Also the last note in the paragraph from the manual said that addition of a sensor would allow operation via MCP. Did you try the TV in V.OPT 0 so you don’t need to cover the sensor (and this might make the TV behave differently.) Again you could try different Options on the MCL2AV.

I didn’t try the TV in option 0, but will defenetly try that for my next test run. And you are right about the thing with the MCP, but could it be that it will only react to commands from that? As far as I know it only works with certain products.

Guy wrote:

If SHIFT is pressed first (or showing on Beo4 display) then then is a single SHIFT RADIO IR transmission (the same command as A.AUX), so it looks like the TV is responding to this, but not the digit that follows (6 or 7).

Got that sorted out. our answers crossed each other.

Guy wrote:

It all looks straightforward when just connecting boxes together, but when you look at all the permutations of software levels, option settings and remote button sequences it all gets a bit complicated! I am looking forward to having a play next week, probably sing my OneRemote Radio as a datalink source connected to MCL2AV TAPE or CD socket.

No there are many quirks. I am happy though that it worked as a proof of concept on my first try so I didn’t gave up on it too early

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

A little more testing today. I didn’t know what option setting the MCL2AV had, so tried to set it to option 1 and now the Shift + Radio + 6 or 7 works for activation the tape and CD input when a datalink source isn’t present. For some reason once in a while I am able to activate the CD input with the CD button, but sound will only come through for 5-10 seconds and the cut out. Don’t know what that is about, but is shouldn’t work at all according to the documentation.

Also tried the AV + TV command described in the MCL2 user manual. According to that it should shift the sound from the TV speakers to the powerlink outputs of the MCL2AV and vice versa.

In my case the TV speakers are default. when I press the AV + TV combination the sound will play on both the TV speakers and the powerlink outputs of the MCL2AV. Pressing it again does nothing. So not really working as described for some reason.

When the MCL2AV is stand alone without the connection to the 1611 and the TV the AV+TV command open the AUX/TV input for sound.

 

In my

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

matador wrote:

Hi guys, I’m still there following in the dark, but you’re now far beyond what I understand from dark protocols. Godspeed.

Great to hear that you are still on board with this thread 🙂

I don’t know the inner workings of these protocols either, but I think I am getting more of an idea as to when which connections and protocols are used for what.

This setup I made can actually be compared to this scenario for the ML Handbook

Just in this case the Beomaster in the stack has been replaced by the MCL2 AV. The connection between the Beolink converter 1611 and the Aux/TV connector on the Beomaster/MCL2AV is 7 Pin datalink (the Audio Aux link version of it), and the connection between the Beomaster/MCL2AV and the components (CD, TAPE, PHONO) is 7 Pin datalink (the Audio link version of it).

I think you can compare the MCL2 AV to a stripped down Beomaster with no power amplifier, no radio, and no fancy shell, but with the added capability to receive MCL2 signals from a Beomaster and transform them to Line out signals for Powerlink.

Hope I didn’t confuse you more

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Madskp wrote:

Guy wrote: Perhaps if you also add a PL cable from MCL2AV to BL1611 you could activate the TV by pressing play on the Beocord?  You may have to change option settings to make this work, if indeed it is possible!

Today I tried to connect a powerlink cable from the MCL2AV to the 1611 as well as the datalink cable. Pressing play on the Beocord didn’t make the TV turn on.

Guy wrote:

And I wonder if connecting an IR sensor and PL speakers to the MCL2AV will allow you to control and listen to the BC6?

It seem that the IR sensor on the MCL2AV is disabled when a connection with a TV is made on the Aux socket. Having the IR sensor connected to MCL2AV I tried blocking the TV’s IR sensor resulting in no control. When I removed the blocking all control was there again. When I use the MCL2AV stand alone the IR sensor work fine. This result corrospond fine with the description from the MCL2 installation Manual.

Madskp wrote:

Guy wrote:

And don’t you have a Beo4 to which you can add SHIFT to in order to test the non-datalink input selections?

Yes, I probably have the shift function on one of my BEO4’s. Just didnt think of it as I have never really used this on a BEO4.

Also tried this combination, bot with my Beolink 1000 with a semi clean battery compartment (all funtcions seems to work) and also with a Beo4. No way was I able to get any sound through when using the key combinations either in stand alone mode or when connecetd to the BC6. I both scenarios I tried both the Shift Radio 6 and 7 on both the Tape and the CD connector but no go. The BC6 is starting up when I use the combination, but dont know if its just taking the Radio command and open the right connections in the 1611.

Hopefully to be continued….

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Very interesting – so effectively using the MCL2AV to convert between Datalink and Audio Aux Link so that it can be connected to an ML system using the BL1611.

Yes it might be on of the most versatile of the “Black” boxes even though its grey 🙂 I wonder when people with ML/NL converters are going to join the Thread and see how many layers of B&O protocols can be used throughout the control chain

Guy wrote:

I have often thought that the fact that the MCL2AV’s DIN sockets are line outputs as well as inputs would be useful, but never got around to testing anything like that, especially also making use of data.

For the data part of it only the AUX socket is and Audio Aux Link which can communicate with Beovision MX and LX TV’s with AUX socket and like this also the 1611 which also has the Audio Aux Link in its AAL socket. Probably also with your DVD player with the special cable?. Both the CD and Tape sockets on the MCL2 AV are Audio Link and will only communicate with CD, Tape and Record players with datalink capabilities.

Guy wrote:

Perhaps if you also add a PL cable from MCL2AV to BL1611 you could activate the TV by pressing play on the Beocord?  You may have to change option settings to make this work, if indeed it is possible!

Sound like an easy test, so will try that out. That will also maybe give me the answer regarding the function of the powerlink port on the 1611. I wonder if the powerlink outputs are active when the aux port is in use as the use case in the MCL2 manuals are that the internal speakers of the TV is used in the link room. But I will give it a try.

Guy wrote:

And I wonder if connecting an IR sensor and PL speakers to the MCL2AV will allow you to control and listen to the BC6?

That could be interesting to try too. Just need a controllable source for the BC6, but I will probably get and ATV3 next week that could be controlled via PUC. Also I will have to find out how the remote will not trigger both the TV and the MCL2AV. But maybe the TV should just be put in option 0?

Guy wrote:

PS:  I like the power supply ‘workaround’ after the fault diagnosed in the other thread!

Yeah couldn’t wait. Sometimes I fell like a little child when I have an idea like this that I have to try out 🙂

Guy wrote:

EDIT:  And don’t you have a Beo4 to which you can add SHIFT to in order to test the non-datalink input selections?

Yes, I probably have the shift function on one of my BEO4’s. Just didnt think of it as I have never really used this on a BEO4.

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Ok gentelmen. I don’t think this thread deserves to die yet.

When Steve commented this:

Steve at Sounds Heavenly wrote:

(I’m also hoping to use this converter to get my Beogram 3500 visible in the B&O app and maybe even get it working via Siri, but that will be a topic for a new thread once I get my Beolink Converter and my new NL/ML Converter working).

It got me thinking, how will he achieve that in the datalink part of the system?

I also remembered Steves video about controlling Beograms from the Bathtub where a MCL2 AV was used. How can this be combined i thought. MCL data signals probably wont be compatible with the 1611. I looked though all the documentation I could find on Beoworld regarding the MCL2 system, and looking at the scenarios where an MX tv is connected to the AUX port of the MCL2 AV. Looking at the schematics for the MCL2 AV got me thinking could you actually connect the 1611 to the Aux port of the MCL2 AV instead of an MX tv?

I bought and MCL2 Av on Ebay, unfortunately defective, but I found a fix until I get spare parts. A litlle about that in this thread https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/mcl2-av-no-55v/

Today I tried out my idea with a Beocord 3500 connected to the tape input of MCL2 AV. A standard datalink cable from the AUX port of the MCL2 AV to the Aal port on the 1611. A Masterlink cable from the 1611 to my BC6. No IR eye connected to the MCL2 AV. The setup looks a little wild as the MCL2 AV gets power from 2 bench supplies until I get the spare parts for it.

And what will you know. It works. I can turn on and control the Beocord 3500 via the MCL2 AV, and will probaly also be able to control either a Beogram record or CD player through it. In my case I cant use the video source through the 1611, but they should still be available via a Beolab 3500.

Sources without datalink requires that you use a key combination shift Radio 6 (for tape input) or 7 (CD input) according to the MCL2 documentation but I didn’t get to test that in this test as my Beolink 1000 Remote with a shift button needs some service in the battery compartment.

Hope this is usefull to you

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Ok, tried a little back and forth with the MCL2AV, but have only got small timeslots to work with it.

Carefully applying higher voltage did not change anything. Guess under normal circumstances it will work within a certain voltage range as all input voltage either goes through the voltage regulator IC21 or to activating a relay switch.

I then have controlled most of the Caps in the power circuit, soldered the out and tested the with a component tester and all seems to be within range still after all these years.

As mentioned earlier I suspected a transistor, and ended up testing TR10, TR11, TR12, TR13. TR13 is the only one of the who fails the test. It only shows up as a diode on the tester.

To further test the unit I tried to apply 10.6V after this transistor before IC20 as shown on the diagram in the servicemanual, and the the unit was alive. Could control a Beocord 3500 with remote and get sound out on powerlink.

So hopefully replacing TR13 will make it work fully again. Ordered a bunch of the on Ebay, and gotta get practicing on my SMD soldering skills with hot air.

Will update when I have the new part.

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Ok thats interesting. I will try that when I have the time to sit with it again

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Thanks again. Mine is type 2020 and has a lot more going on

guess the same applies to the bottom og the PCB.

but great to have some sort of reference.

I had some corrospondance with the seller and he tells me it didnt work with a power supply for him, but it did connected tol the MCL2P.

cant really see what difference that should make?

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Thank you very much. Then I can rule out errors regarding these specifications

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Guy, is there a pin connection drawing on the PSU for your MCL2-AV if you have it handy?

thsnks in advance

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Hi again and thanks for the hint.
the problem persists without the IR eye connected, so may not be that. Right now im suspecting an SMD transistor

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Yes thats the way cabling should look like in a man cave ?

I dont have the original PSU so I am using a bench power supply with wires soldered to the PCB. It should be ok as I am getting the right voltage levels other places on the board except that 5.5V that is not showing up.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Am I right in assuming that the MCL2 AV will start up and work stand alone without connection to a MCL master?

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Giorgione wrote:

Hey you friendly folks, Millesmissen was right, the two “upper” pins are missing. Clipped out, it seems, I can see the holes left. So I guess it’s only a minor operation.

Great to hear that it might just be the simple solution.

Just a thought, if you connect it again and activate the input on the Beomaster with the remote can you activate the Beogram via its own play button and hear sound?

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Giorgione wrote:

When I plugged the BG7000 into the phono socket of the BM5500 I could immediately hear that there was something wrong (two RIAA amps) but that wasn’t the case when plugging it into the BM6500, no distortions at all. On the other hand, when I plug it into the CD socket, there’s no sound at all.

Have you tried connecting other equipment to that BM6500’s CD socket just to be sure it is actually working?

Also check if all the pins are in the connector as Millemissen suggested.

Giorgione wrote:

However, if I really was so unlucky to get one of these special BM6500; do you think that a skilled B&O service technician is able to build the BM6500 back to its “original” state? I’ve planned to have one of my BM7000 overhauled  anyway…

I can’t tell from the service manual if the RIAA in the BM6500 is a separate board that can be  be removed, as it is only shown as part of a diagram where it is surrounded by dashes and market RIAA amplifier acesory, and the text about cutting pin 7 when RIAA is mounted. Mayby someone who did som work on one of these units can chime in.

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

There might be another explanation.

As far as I can tell Beomaster’s with built in RIAA use pin 6 in the DIN connector for datalink which is also the case for Beograms without RIAA. Beomasters without built in RIAA use pin 7 for datalink and so does the Beograms with Built in RIAA.

I Belive it is a way for the end user not to be able to start a configuration the will not work: Either two RIAA amplifiers or no RIAA amplifiers.

The BM6500 had an option for a built in RIAA amplifier, and the service manual states that pin 7 in the DIN conenctor should be cut if mounted thus making it impossible to control a Beogram with built in RIAA.

CD and tape sockets use pin 7.

A Guess could be that you have a Beomaster 6500 with built in RIAA.

 

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Testing again. Got it working i windows with Beoplayer software in option 2, working as it should. Thanks Guy. Nice to know I can rule Out ML cabling, option setting on TV etc.

Tried again with LP2 on Mac, but only working when set to no Ir Receiver (corrosponds to option 0), and not when in distribution mode.

I’ll have to play more with these settings when I have time next for experimentation.

Location: Denmark

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