[NQVHNWI]

Yes….it competes with other Brands. It does not get laughed out of the park in the price point it is in.

The Beolab 8 I think competes with integrated speakers at that price point.

1. Good clean-looking speakers, no gimmicks
2. Integrated All-Digital Amp (no need for Amp or cable matching)
3. Integrated DSP Unit (no need for Dirac box)
4. Integrated Streamer (no need for Wiim or Eversolo or Bluenote box)
5. Integrated Pre-Amp (The Speaker switches between source and controls volume well albeit not as well as the Big Beolabs)
6. An App that (now) works.

So the product sans gimmicks is a good one. With the bass driver, the BL28 would make a compelling case at its price point (less a few grand) without the gimmick. Marketed well to those who would be embarrassed to own B&O and you create a sale outlet you have not had for a long time. It is reasonably WAF acceptable made of clean-looking non-bulky design……on and on and on.

I think many Beofans have to understand times are always changing and fancy mechanisms add a lot of visial, a lot of price and in many ways, take away some credibility of the product AT THE PRICE POINT IT IS AT

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

I think it does.

No more outdated flat panels before they hit the shelf and a good range of products from relatively cheap to very very expensive. I think it is one of the best line ups they have had.

Critique: I would be happy if the BeoLab28s were the last products made with these superfluous mechanical mechanisms. I know most people in here love this stuff but when you take the cost of that mech out, (and the side drivers continue to do what probably 99% of the work is), you will reduce manufacturing cost significantly. You reduce R&D cost and prototyping costs. It will go a long way. Look at the BS Balance and BL8.

I think also (but would need data on this), removing the superfluous “wow” and having a colourway/finish option that appeals more to the regular hifi buyer….may attract more customers from the Andrew Robinson/John Darko YT set??

just saying. I it’s think going in the right direction but Louis Vuitton Lady, Xi Jinping and Patek Philippe man are not coming to rescue B&O. Nor is a hifi product that doubles as James Bonds latest gadget. I think the only way out is sold technical products that can appeal to all customers that are well marketed as such.

• This reply was modified 2 days, 11 hours ago by NQVHNWI.

[NQVHNWI]

I would state that if you could scale modern streamers, DACs, Amplifiers and loudspeakers from mainstream at say GBP1000 and up to the very top and put BnO in that scale…..most products would not get above the bottom 3rd. So BnO contrary to popular belief is not the top end of the market by a long way.

As I’ve said in many places, BnO make very nice WAF-acceptable home entertainment equipment.  It is certainly not a “luxury” brand. It’s home electronics. (Keep a GBP20000 Hermes bag boxed and pristine for 10 years and amazingly, it will keep its value. Keep the same value of BnO in a box and it’s yesterday-years tech on eBay)

in terms of 4 categories, there is only 3. Brand desirability comes from the other 3 variables. The prices are as suggested by others more or less inflation adjusted (did the exercise with what I have purchased over the last 30-odd years). However, there was a big jump in Beovisions at the time of LCD and there is a big jump in the big Beolabs (50-90) inflation wise.

regardless, given the Mozart platform and ICEpower, products throughout the range are now modular and should be considerably cheaper to prototype and manufacture.

One of the biggest problems I see BnO having is too much mechanical gimmickry. I know most in here love this but it does take away from the seriousness of the brand. (Think about Roger Moore as Bond in Moonraker compared to Craig in Casino Royal. Back in the day, it was good fun, today, people would not put up with a new film like moonraker or similar).

Part of BnOs survival must be to make competent products that just do their Job. They need sound quality comparable to the mainstream at a similar price point.

The Company needs more Andrew Robinson and less Charles deClerks to promote the good name of BnO to those that lost faith or just read about the perpetual “better bang for your buck elsewhere” mantra

[NQVHNWI]

Im not 100% certain. I have still to develop my BLI and do something useful with the Halo.

What I can say is that I can pull all my home automation devices into zones and control curtains and lights directly. I’m sure I can also (with Tuya/Smartlife) pull in existing Tuya scenes (but this wont control B&O) or write a macro to control B&O and Tuya in BLI Pro.

I would say that the BLI is more of a staging/setup device for macros and greater house control. I dont think it is a direct replacement for the BeoApp (though there is no reason to suggest it cant be drilled into and settings extracted). It will control (with the right links/setup), cameras, curtains, security, heating, cooling etc if you are so inclined and talented to setup. Its not obvious on how to do it (like Home Assistant automations I guess), but the links between Tuya, BLI and HA are all there and they seem like they will be able to talk to each other. Finally, as previously indicated like HA, it can augment the Halo better that out of the factory/BeoApp setup is currently.

• This reply was modified 4 days, 2 hours ago by NQVHNWI.

[NQVHNWI]

I have written very critically about KTear and B&Os Strategy extensively on discord. My current perception is as follows:-

1. K Tear – good riddance. The man is an ocean-going, weapons-grade ******. Sure he is chocolate-smooth and eloquent at speaking but in his long career he has many top-jobs but clearly could not run a bath with any of them.
2. The pricing of B&O is not as outrageous as it first seams. The big Beolabs and top-end Beovision-type products are breaking away considerably from inflation-adjusted. Everything else is more-or-less in-line with historical inflation.
3. The decline of B&O did not start with KTear but in a long litany of very poor CEOS combined with a way-too-conservative Board. As we go through these poor CEOs, the situation will worsen. I will mark Tue Mantoni out as an exception.
4. I think the product line is actually very good right now. B&O has to get away from super-sleek loudspeakers and focus on sound quality. They cannot charge GBP5, 10, 20, 50, 150k for loudspeakers that look good but sound like a category below their price indication.
5. They also have to keep away from mechanical gimmickry. It takes too long to develop, sucks-up R&D capital and products tend to have a short shelf like (Think mobile phones, BV7 DVD drawer etc…). Get and keep to international A/V specifications. Dont invent your own way of doing it when everything changes too quickly.
6. They need to embrace China/SE Asia manufacturing. I don’t like it either but I also don’t think there is an alternative?
7. Stop wasting money on Brand Ambassadors and such. Cancel Ferrari sponsorship. No facts but I believe this cost more than it brings in?
8. Get a proper marketing Team. Too many anaemic waffer-thin models who look like they have never done a days work to afford B&O. In my book, B&O is something you reward yourself with having done a good job and earned it. B&O Marketing is just plain lazy.
9. Let the Dealers deal. Stop this “Rolex AD fascism” (That model has now collapsed and Rolex are clamping down on ADs who abused the situation). Stop this excessive waste of cash with Franchised Dealers and B&O splashing out wasted capital on store refreshment every two minutes. I think every B&O store being the same dissipates the relationship between you and Dealer? Uniqueness of Store experience with common products is much better I think?
10. Stop chasing HNWIs and uber-rich glory. Quite clearly they – like China did not come in and save the Company with Sales. B&O is not “Luxury”. Its nice WAF-friendly home entertainment gear. Only.
11. Finally…….LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS

I doubt I’ll get on the shortlist for a CEO interview with the Chairman but we will redo this thread in 3 years time after the next failure.

Good day

[NQVHNWI]

Hi,

Tuya make/licence a whole heap of iot devices. They can be controlled via wifi (consumes your home wifi resource), zigbee (a tuya protocol using discrete wifi bands reporting to a hub (saves home wifi bandwidth but tends to be cloud based) and bluetooth. I have about 120-150 down lightbulbs taking up most of of the inventory, plus switches, power meters, curtain drawers and sensors.

If i am correct you first need a tuya account, app (or smartlife app), then via a token you can pull ot to HA for local control, eitherway, the BLI pro can collect and gove simple control. You can write scene macros as required.

[NQVHNWI]

Hi,

I have connected my entire Tuya/Zigbee Home Automation devices (over 200 I think?) into Beoliving Pro. Once you have a token…its fairly easy to do.

I have also Home Assistant which pulls everything on BLI and Tuya etc..  together also. My ambition once I get time is to start working out how it all integrates and automates is to improve the lot of the Halo with the Tuya gear and to get Tuya off the Cloud and go local Tuya on HA.

So I think it is all doable….just the time and the inclination to get on with it.

 

Edit, the Tuya Developers portal is fairly basic for free users and very expensive on a professional level (Beoliving Pro is extraordinarily cheap by comparison). Thus in the long run, you want to localise Tuya devices to HA and do everything from there to BLI.

• This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by NQVHNWI.

[NQVHNWI]

Yes they are…as stated above.

The process is the same for narrow mode and wide mode. The only difference is a) the lens adjusts its profile and b) there is (I would guess) some sort of “clipping”/”de-resolution” of the data/algorithm which reduces the latency.

I do not think that “wide” mode is caused by the lens position alone.

[NQVHNWI]

Kinda forgotten how I did it on the BL90s?

The room compensation is set up in a particular mode on the 90s. (i.e Narrow, Wide, Omni). You instruct the 90s what the mode is (1,2,3) being formed.

The room calibration (one man on his own in a chair) centres around an imaginary cube around said mans head. Furthest corner, nearest corner, centre of head etc)

Different room calibrations can be added together to “widen the area’ (two people on a sofa) etc. This can actually be done in Narrow mode!

 

My ultimate take on the N/W/O thing is in a way that it is a gimmick – of sorts. There is no-doubt the narrow mode calibration is effective in reducing reflections and offers pin-sharp imaging and soundstage but it comes at a cost of high latency (computation time).

Wide mode is just a “blurring” or dumbing down of narrow mode (in my opinion)  which reduces the detailed computations required to sufficiently reduce latency and make the BL90/50 usable as AV speakers. Omni is just “let it rip” mode.

 

So yes, beam width and room compensation are intimately linked. There may be slight variances between the BL90 and BL50 calibration…as one has a single acoustic lens and the other has 14 separate drivers but I imagine the subroutine will be practically identical?

 

[NQVHNWI]

was not aware of no B&o radio? I was under the impression that b&o radio was embedded in Mozart and the BeoApp??

[NQVHNWI]

I think it offers a reasonable value-proposition from B&O (well that is until the 50% price increase in spring 2026 no-doubt)

It falls between the Flagship Theatre and the Stage. Stage being relatively standalone (and rumours are it is not EOL yet), the Theatre being the fully connected all-singing-dancing soundbar with PL, DPL, WISA for 9.0.0 Atmos, PUC.

The Premiere represents a GBP5000 saving over a basic Theatre and looks apart, probably offers 85-90 of what most Theatre Owners want/use. It also represents 500% more flexibility over the Stage being Mozart, connections etc.

We can argue all day on the aesthetics but then again in true B&O style, the Theatre is not exactly the prettiest B&O offering?

Good choice of User selected materials and aluminium colour-ways I think can make-or-break this product in terms of looks. Not sure about the Wood myself, white fabric on Alu may be good. Black on black may be good also? Personal taste.

In terms of legacy…..yes perhaps but I assume that B&O would like you to expand and buy a DPL-capable satellite speaker rather than keep with the BL4000’s/6000s etc..

Not many people will be connecting the Premiere to CRT TVs these days?

 

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

Yes. First-world problems and tribulations.

[NQVHNWI]

At the time of purchase (giving the money…not receiving the BL90s), there was no credible Streamer in the B&O Stable. (Even now…the BC-Core “barely passes”). I looked at a lot but on delivery of the BL90, the USB functionality was not coded, nor was Omni or Narrow Mode. Updating the BL90s was via a USB stick or a special laptop. Really, you had Powerlink and XLR

There was also a story from Geoff Martin who had a lot of praise for Auralic Aries streamer (mk1)….but they changed something on the USB output which meant it was not compatible with the BL90 (im guessing again but think it was an incompatible clock setting and the programming was not complete) so the risk was buying a reasonably high-end streamer and it not working was not acceptable. However, Auralic (now an insolvent Hifi Group as of last month) had their Vega G2 DAC which had a good streamer on-board. This pumped out via XLR.

You could also build-up the system with a proper streamer (Aries G2 – which shares the computational power with the DAC), a ultra-high-end Clock the Leo GX and the most importantly but later, the Sirius G2.1 Upsampler (which is btw totally utterly phenomenal piece of kit). About GBP25k at the time for the full stack.  However, the results are very very pleasing. I think the Leo GX clock was the least noticeable addition but everything else worked together to make a very sublime and believable sound with no noise recognisable at all.

I am aware of individuals on Discord who do the same (Linn/BL50s) and they get a favourable sound over keeping everything digital. Its more about sound preference rather than sound quality.

[NQVHNWI]

My guess is that the problem lies in the WiiM digital clock (quality of the clock)

Quick back-ground reading on the Wiim suggests to use the Optical instead of its own USB (may be a tell).

The likely Wiim worked Ok with the BL5 because I think the BL5 was limited to 88kz on coax input

 

Three possible workarounds.

1. Buy a high accuracy “Digital Clock” this will clean up the signal from the Wiim. Most likely to work with the BL50s. will give the best quality sound
2. Throttle the Wiim Digital output to 96kh or less. You may notice more digital “noise”
3. Feed the RCA Analogue outputs from the Wiim to the BL50. I feed my Auralic DAC into my BL90s via XLR. I prefer the sound but it may be dependant on the quality of the DAC in the Wiim.

 

 

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

My recollection of testing the BC-Core with the BL90s via USB was that you connect the USB (Audio) sockets together and run the BeoApp. The App “knew” that a BC-core and BL90 were connected together and ran a special sub-routine in the App.

Once done, the BL90s were “owned” by the BC-Core. (I imagine the in-built Core calibrations etc…are bypassed for the BL90 Calibrations which will be superior)

I imagine the BL50 will be very similar to the BL90 in that process?

 

p.s. The Core via USB to the BL90s sounded pretty good. (comparing to my full-fat Auralic G2 streaming system). My recommendation is not to connect analogue powerlink. It will sound several order of magnitude poorer quality.

Run the compare and contrast yourself and see!

[NQVHNWI]

Great work.

My original thoughts were to simply put a BeoAmp2 on the end, RCA-up the speakers to the Amp outputs and if you ever get a Mozart Soundbar or the Core…..tell it your connecting a BeoVox Penta.

However, you choose a far more challenging route. Good luck.

 

One of my rainy day projects has been standing in a box for a couple of years now….while I rebuild a house. Converting an old pair of CX100’s to the innards of 2 x Beolab7.1 loudspeakers. One day…..

..perhaps I will finish?

 

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

Move the navigator arm to MODE and use the wheel to highlight SETTINGS.

- On BeoSound 5, press:  >>,  <<,   >>,   <<,    GO to activate ‘Service Configuration Menu’

[NQVHNWI]

I think a lot of B&O – although it looks splendid from a distance in my opinion actually ages like everything else. I’ll probably offend a lot of people but there are lots of models which today I would not entertain now but in the day…thought it was the bees-knees.

Aside, for my 100 years…..

 

Childhood Dreams….wall mounted BeoSystem 4000

 

Owned and loved:-

Audio: BeoSound 5 – modified with a zippy HDD – it was not as bad as many have stated.

Loudspeaker: Beolab 5 – I think this put B&O in the “serious” Loudspeaker and amp market

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

AV5,  I remember that as I was getting in to my first major purchase. Again, a legacy TV where the CD-i or CD-Rom outdated it immediately and would have done well if only they adopted or updated to the DVD standard.

[NQVHNWI]

[Disclaimer mode_on] I think first and foremost every B&O user who uses any add-on or third party/non-approved equipment with do so at there own risk and their own risk assessment. [Disclaimer mode_off]

 

Next, I have used a lot of these over the years. The problem they have is they burn-out relatively quickly. However, most are now cheap enough it does not matter too much.

I have used them for travelling with a business laptop more often than anything else. They are compact, easy to breakdown wire-wise and not only can you charge your laptop…..you can power all your mobile gadgets the modern world has to offer.

So with a 100W unit and a 65W power-0draw laptop, my PSU got hot quickly and soon had electronics failure (the PSU – not the laptop)

I now use a 320W unit (same size etc) and it appears far more compliant. So I’m guessing its how the solid-state transformer (or whatever it is) takes wall-mains and knocks it down to a low Amp DC voltage for whatever you are powering.

[Author]

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