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There is a manual available – I scanned it in on the old Forum! I probably have a copy though looking for the DVD drive at present!! Keith should have it on file – This is B&Os fault for giving completely different devices the same number!! I am sure we can get this changed.
There is an earth that goes to the round metal part of the DIN plug. A wire from this to an earth will get the hum to go away.
The SP12 does have an elliptical diamond – the others are spherical. I note there is a firm selling newly restored styli with a choice of tips though have not used him – audio-origin is the name. Seems to be retipping original cartridges. I have a bespoke SP2 cartridge with an elliptical diamond supplied by Frede at Classical Audio – fantastic cartridge.
Of interest, when I bought my first BC9500, which I bought new, the dealer also sold me a BG4500 as he had not realised it had a RIAA. Of course it produced a dreadful sound through the phono input and he rather shamefacedly replaced it with a 9500. I cannot remember what I did with the deck – I suspect it might be with the BC9500 which I lent to a friend many years ago! I will probably use a 4004 with my new 9500 if I need a record player.
The alternative would be a Beogram 8000 which is a definite step up from a 4500 or 5500.
Seriously, just connect the pins 6 and 7 on the DIN plug and you will get remote control through the Aux channel. You can of course open up the Beogram and remove the RIAA but this will be far more complicated. Beograms with the built in RIAA are probably worth more than the non RIAA fitted decks as they can be used with all sorts of modern equipment. What you need is a Beogram 9500 (rare) or more reasonably a Beogram 5005 0r 5500 which don’t have a RIAA fitted and will work with the 9500 ( Good choice of system – in my view the best designed system B&O made – just bought another myself!) You can probably sell the 4500 for more than it would cost to get a 5500.
The best B&O CD player is the BG5500. Has the best motor and usually the best chip set. It also has an optical out if that is what you want. It will however have very limited control unless used with a Beomaster as mentioned above but if listening to classical CDs, I imagine putting a CD in and pressing play will cover almost all options! If you are in the UK, I have a 5500 CD and master with remote that you could have on loan to see if it suits your needs. I confess to using a BC9500 as I like the looks, sound and ease of use.
Very clever! It amazes me how resourceful members are! I confess that I always clean the record before playing it as usually use a 20CL and any dust simply collects on the needle. And my best deck is completely manual. However clearly there will be demand though maybe a non RIAA version could also be popular.
I seem to remember that in a MCL system, the volume is independent, to a point. I have much the same system in my house – MCL feeding both MCL – A and MCLAV devices and a NL/ML converter as well. Confess no longer use most of it as have Amazon Echo devices through the house, some feeding into B&O systems – rather more convenient!
Just seen this – it depends on your own technical abilities – there should be a service manual available of site – I am pretty sure I scanned it for the old site and that will give capacitor values and positions so that they can be replaced. Otherwise I would entrust your device to a good repair shop – a couple of my items are with Multicare as I type!
Agree – I love the massively over engineered 4000 – I have three of the 400x decks – the 4000, 4004 (bought this new when a medical student!) and my 6000 (now rebadged as the 4001! The 4000 exudes quality , the control panel simpler and I think better looking and has the strobe, and the lid is not so heavily smoked with a light brown smoked finish as opposed to the grey of the 4004. And considerably heavier!
The Beogram 4000 is very different to the Beogram 4002, 4004 and 6000. It uses an expensive Swiss AC motor, a completely different control system, has a much more substantial sub chassis and sub platter with a strobe speed display and the arm control was simplified for the 4002. There is a good description of the two at Beocentral. However, as Tim points out, the performance of the 4002 was much the same as the 4000 and was a lot cheaper to produce. As the electronics and structure of the 4000 is very different to the 4002, I can fully understand why B&O have limited the offer to the later simpler models.
B&O do have a history of the engineers making products that are technologically fantastic but in real life could be troublesome or very expensive to produce – the Beocord 5000 type 4705 comes to mind – three heads, dual capstan and all electronic control. As anyone who has owned one of these will testify, these are heavy and staggeringly well made and also temperamental and liable to destroy tapes. I remember these were the only devices that my old service departments refused to touch as they said simply taking them apart and putting them back together cost more in time than the machine was worth. The Beomaster 6000 quad, which it matched, was similar though I did get them to service this – I was a good customer!!
I suspect the parts needed to fully restore a BG4000 would be very expensive now and would probably need remanufacturing which would clearly be uneconomic for a very small number of decks. Luckily mine still seems to be working fine!
Thank you for that – I take it you mean the nice wooden flat 2000 – I had one of those and the quad version, the 3400. I particularly liked the feature of the ‘bonnet stay’ so you could service it more easily! I too still have S45.2s – one of the stars of the Uniphase range though I confess they are rarely used. Just reacquired a Beocenter 9500 which I regard as the best design of music system B&O ever made especially when paired with a Beolink 7000. I am rediscovering some compilation tapes (!) that I made in the early 80s! My B&O collection has almost all be given away or sometimes sold. Theb most used part is a Beolit 700 (Colour version) which is still stupendous!
As I no longer no much about the present range, I will not post as much as I did – when Beoworld first started, I made it a rule that every query would get an answer in 24 hours if at all possible and this became ever easier especially when we attracted other members – Martin comes readily to mind with his encyclopaedic knowledge!
Just come across this thread which made me examine the cartridges I still have.
SP15 – interesting square diamond with edges parallel to cantilever – cut to a shape which looks down my microscope to be spherical – supposed to be elliptical – this is the first of the MMC range and became the MMC4000.
I then have 2 MMC5000s
- Square diamond – quite a bit smaller and set with sides 45 degrees to cantilever and cut with a Shibata profile – elliptical with leading edges cut away. Blue dot on mating face of cartridge.
- Round diamond, smaller and darker but with similar Shibata tip. Green dot on mating surface.
MMC6000 – square diamond again edges set to 45 degrees and both front and back surfaces cut away – Pramanik profile.
MMC20CL – lovely transparent sapphire cantilever with tiny diamond, edges parallel to cantilever , both leading and trailing edges cut away though leading edge deeper – the 6000 seemed more symmetrical.
MMC20SH (!) – this the relevant one really – pretty sure Axel did this one for me – the cantilever has a cut close to the body and there seems to be a sleeve almost but very smooth and no ridge but a graduation down to the rest of the cantilever. There is a diamond which I think is square, sides 45 degrees to side of cantilever though looks about a degree out. The diamond seems to be contact line rather than shibata as cut on four sides though not as well finished on the trailing edge compared to the B&O versions (being a bit picky here!) Attaching a picture for the cantilever.
I confess to rarely using them these days and my ears are not what they were! I remember to 20CL being temperature sensitive – came alive in a warm room. The 6000 was quite bright and made a superb record cleaner – could clear dust out of a pristine looking record! I rather liked the SP15 and that one stays on the BG4000!
I do have a memory of having an MMC4 rebuilt – it involved the suspension being replaced and the front of the cartridge cut off and then reattached but a line remained to show the process. No longer have any of the newer cartridges as either sold or gave away all the relevant decks. I never liked them as much as the 4000 series, not even the 8002 I had.
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You must be logged in to view attached files.Very kind of you. I think the kind chap on the front desk was still getting his breath back after helping with the M100s! Would be interested to see the workshop though. I do have a few bits not in your product list – the Beogram 3000 Thorens and Beogram 3000 Acoustical (this is now in the hands of another enthusiast). The BG3000 Thorens is probably the best sounding Beogram – mine comes with the 12″ B&O ST/P arm and a bespoke SP2 cartridge. The bass seems far more extended than even my 4000 but it does needs mounting on a isolating wall bracket to get the best out of it. It was designed to be used with the semi professional Beolab 5000 system of the 60s and B&O went to Thorens as their own decks of the time were just not as good. Acoustical is an interesting side note – a Dutch company who supplied their motor unit to B&O for the UK market as I believe Thorens were less than keen that the TD124 was sold in the UK under the B&O brand from what what I understand. Having had both, the Thorens is the better, though that could well be because mine was restored and improved by the inestimable Frede at Classic Audio
It is amusing – a number of my pictures on the old Beocentral and Beoworld sites found their way onto other sites so the 4001 seemed like a good enterprise to establish who was taking things! You of course are completely absolved as we put the 4001 on site for exactly that purpose! I may bring it down when I pick up the 4401 (which I am pretty sure is real!) – As you can see, it also has the well known bogus MMC20SH – this was a MMC20S that I had retipped with a Shibata diamond and better cantilever – akin to the MMC5000. I am not sure that I wouldn’t keep it on site to confuse the opposition!
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You must be logged in to view attached files.The benefit I now have is that my high frequency hearing doesn’t really go much over 10KHz so even pretty poor speakers sound not bad! The advantages of age!
Thank you – have edited profile as well to include dog though not convinced is same one – this is Brutus who was my last dog – we lost him a good few years ago but still have at present 3 bassets and a labrador , but these are really my wife’s and daughter’s.
Thanks to Multicare who are at present fixing some old equipment for me. Couple of small speakers (M100.s!) and some audio bits.
I did post a lot as I had a considerable collection of 60s, 70s,80s and 90s equipment and when Steve set up the site, we decided that the best way to make it successful was to make sure every post was answered the same day. Because I had most of the kit, I could usually go and test things and then tell them how it worked. The official B&O site was really somewhere where dissatisfied customers complained and B&O closed it as it was not conducive to their sales. I think because we were not B&O, we were given a far easier ride and had far more positive posts – once they knew that we would always reply, the site ballooned and continued to do so. We attracted some fantastic moderators who knew far more than me but continued the answering of queries. B&O were always very positive. particularly after Lee took on the site and we visited Struer a number of times and were looked after very well.
I am afraid I started to bow out once the manufacture was outsourced to China and once the audio systems were discontinued I felt my role was done. Glad to see things are still up and running and I know Keith is a superb organiser. I have retired as a GP this year and no doubt will be around a bit more. I remember the bike avatar Guy!
Not convinced it will work though will try it out when I can. The 4004 used a proto datalink and Tim on Beocentral suggests it is not compatible. I will let you know – will need to find where I put the spare DIN pins first!!
The Beoworld piece also suggests that it will not work remotely. It will of course function perfectly well as a record player – I have used mine with all sorts of Beomasters.
Frede is one of the kindest men that I have met. I still have fond memories of meeting him and the splendid hospitality he showed. I treasure my Beomasster 4401 he gave me and the Beolab/Master 5000 that he restored for me and the unique Beogram 3000 Thorens. He also lives in a fabulous house in an idyllic location which we have visited a couple of times and it was always a pleasure. I do hope you enjoy a long and happy retirement.
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