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Ok so if I understand correctly the ML power box only deliver the 0.25/-0.25V for the datalines and not the higher voltages on the pink and blue wires?
Yes, it provides the termination voltages for the datalines and 5V to the ML Power + pin. Probably ML Power – is also supplied with -5V but I don’t think any of the common ML devices uses that. As I said earlier everything will communicate just fine if you provide it with the data termination voltage and 5V on the pink + blue/white cable.
What could be the reason for not having the supply of the data voltages in the BLC NL/ML?
I have never looked into a BLC and there is no public schematic available. I don’t know if it is using the old ML ASIC or a discrete solution. In any case I put my bets on a hardware design issue. They either may have just forget about that feature during development or initially it was never planned for the BLC to become a master. Who knows…
Is it because there can only be one unit providing it in a ML network?
Technically you could get away with multiple “Power Master” if they have at least some reverse current protection. Maybe two or three would still work okay but the cleanest way is of course only having one.
Interesting. Roughly what I expected to be in there.
The 5-pin chip is an unregulated charge pump used for inverting the + 5V from USB to -5V.
The smaller ones on the other side of the board are indeed some diodes and two resistors. They are used for providing power to the data lines.would you believe that a BeoLink Passive provides the required MasterLink voltage (as the 1611 does)?
No, unfortunately it can’t.
Hi B3OHACK3R, very nice to have you on board too! Could it be the BLC only fails to supply the POWER+? My ideal solution would be a ‘cable’ going from the USB socket to the MasterLink RJ45 socket of the BLC. I can then use the ML socket for the BL2000. Anything that comes close to that would be great! Regards, Johan
🙂
As I said, the MDT board can easily used for that. Can be powered by USB and with a little modification then permanently provides power to ML. I could make one where only the ML power related parts are mounted.
I’m just a little confused by madskp’s measurements…
Oh, okay. That is strange. I neither have a BLC nor a power box here currently. So can’t test. Maybe there are different revisions of the BLC?
From the electrical standpoint I can say for sure that it’s only the termination of the data lines as well as power on the Power+ pin that is needed.
Hi Johan,
to be able to switch on and communicate with e.g. a BL2000 via ML following conditions must be met:
- DATA+ must be pulled up to around +0.25 V
- DATA- must be pulled down to around -0.25 V
- POWER+ must be at least powered with 5 V
In a standard ML system the master device will take care of that. I don’t know what the BLC misses out. Probably all of those conditions but you could measure that.
5 V is easy to apply. I recommend a series resistor and a diode for current limiting and reverse protection. The supply to the data lines is a bit more complicated and not easily achievable. If you have a negative supply you might get away with a few resistors and diodes.
I could probably build a few MDT boards with just the ML power circuit. That would more or less be a direct replacement for the power box.
Is it also possible to connect the MDT via the 1611 converter (hence via ML) and thus allowing it to be part of a larger ML system like a BS3000 could form part of?
Yes, that should work but haven’t tested that in detail yet. I know that I could control a BC9500 + 1611 via ML. I guess audio then need to be injected via the video sources.
Or where do you “enable” the MDT to decide which ML products it will turn on when streaming to it?
Currently two scenarios are implemented. N.Radio/N.Music provider “source center” and BL3500/BL2000 stand-alone.
The first sends a virtual N.Radio key to the audio master once a stream is playing. Only the audio master will be switched on then.
The second one simulates an audio master. Once you start a stream a virtual “radio” key is sent to the “broadcast” address all linkrooms are listening to. So if you connect more than once BL3500 in that setup most likely all will switch on – but only tested with one so far.
So in a link system you really want to use the source-center mode. It will behave similar as if you would hook up a BeoMedia 1, BeoPort or BeoSound 5 to your BS3000. By changing the address of the virtual N.Radio key you can change which device is being switched on automatically.
If this is true and one would only chose BS3000 to turn on by the MDT, can the other link speakers still join and play the same source as and when you chose “N.MUSIC” from the Beo4 in a link room?
Sure, the join command always works. In theory one could also run multiple instances of the AirPlay emulator each tied to a different ML address. While only once source can play at the same time you could use that for automatic switch-on of different ML devices.
Lastly, these functions we are discussing, are they ready at this stage or is it also part of the work in progress?
The source-center mode in combination with AirPlay is tested and working well. On BC2 also metadata is shown nicely.
Also the BL3500/BL2000 stand-alone mode is working nice.
I’m currently in the progress of adding pre-programmable net radio stations that you can activate locally without AirPlay.I’ve seen your videos and it is impressive to see metadata displayed on the BC2. Will metadata also show in the display of a BeoSound 3000?
I don’t have a BS3000 here so I can’t say for sure. Nevertheless I think I read somewhere that it will show the metadata as well. Make sure that the SW of your BS3000 is recent enough to support N.Music/Radio. If not: a work-around through option 2 and the video sources is likely doable but wasn’t tested/implemented yet.
If your MasterDataTool is connected to a BeoSound 3000 via ML or a BeoMaster 7000 via datalink, will this prevent it from also be connected to a ML link system (BM7000 via converter of course)?
For ML music systems this is no problem. You just connect the MDT somewhere on the ML system. It doesn’t have to be directly connected to the BS.
For DL that doesn’t work unfortunately. There it’s either MDT or the 1611 converter.With reference to 2), if one would start the MasterDataTool up with e.g. Spotify so it would turn on the BS3000/BM7000, would all connect link speakers also start to play? Or, will only products (BS3000, BM7000 and link speakers) with “Timer on” enabled play?
In a ML system it’s up to you. You can enable everything at the same time or only a few linkrooms or none at all. You can send “virtual” Beo4 remote key strokes to every device on the ML to activate and control them (they all have their own address). So independent from any timer setting.
Not exactly sure how that works in a MCL system as I cannot test it here. With a stand-alone BC9500 you will activate the AUX source via DL/AAL and then send a special unmute command to enable local audio output. Similar to ML you can send virtual Beo4 key strokes to the music system for controlling functions. The AAL data pin is directly connected to the MCL connector but I don’t know if the endpoints are supporting remote control by MCL commands.
This is super interesting and thank you for developing this.
Cool, thanks 🙂
So far I understand that it would enable me to play music to a BeoSound/BeoMaster (ML/Datalink) via Spotify Connect or AirPlay.
Yes!
Your kit comes with “housing” but from your picture it looks pretty open and not like a consumer product, is the “housing” the top plate with your brand “MasterDataTool” and as such one would need to buy a case for the entire ensemble and if the latter can you recommend a neat looking case please?
In general the MasterDataTool should more be considered an “interface hacking tool” rather than a regular consumer product. There are so many possible ML and DL application scenarios it is almost impossible for a 3rd party to make a polished product out of it. Hence the cost optimised DIY approach that will (hopefully) grow in usefulness over time by contributions from the community.
As you rightly see, the “housing” consists of three small plastic parts. Top & bottom side as well as a spacer in-between. Usually another housing is not required but that is up to you. Most of the time such Raspberry peripheral boards are not coming with any housing at all – so at least something.However, I don’t quite understand how I can utilise the sound sources from these B&O and send their source (e.g. CD or Radio) to my other Airplay or Spotify Connect devices.
It is part of the DIY experience I would say. 🙂
A while back I made a small progressive web app (PWA) where you could remote control the ML device and select AirPlay compatible endpoints from a drop-down list. Owntone (forked-daap) was used for that in the backend. Haven’t published that as an application example yet. Please bear with me. All work-in-progress currently, really.What is tested well currently is using a BL3500/2000 in stand-alone mode. Also the “source center” application is working well (converts a ML music system to an automated AirPlay receiver).
Everything else is really DIY on the software side right now.
Raspberry Pi: For the purpose of MasterDataTool, is there any different in use buying Raspberry Pi 1, 2, 3, 4 to 5?
Been testing here with Pi 3B+ and Pi 4. 1B, 2 and 5 will likely work as well.
can you recommend a neat looking case please?
I don’t think it will fit anything existing ones. Either hide it away as-is or make something own. Happy to provide the 3D files if you want to use that as a starting point.
Thanks!
Hi,
the Universal Link Adapter was just a proof-of-concept prototype. It is not for sale.
Instead a simplified version was developed. Have a look here: https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/masterlink-usb-adapter/Having that said – yes, technically it is possible controlling the 8002 with a BR1. Been doing something similar with a Halo and a BG 5500. It all depends how much you’d like to dive into that topic on the software level as it is not a plug-n-play product.
Hi Johan,
I just wanted to chime in to says that the BR1 isn’t capable of receiving IR signals from a hardware perspective.
Not sure about the source naming topic as I’m missing some experience with the BR1. I guess if you use the IR eye you will have to set it to Beo4 mode. Then everything is hard-coded I believe but others may know better.I am assuming they get there through 2 way IR then.
There is no IR receiver in any BR1 model. Only IR diodes for sending.
I’d like to add to my previous post that before buying the set the seller showed me his PS3 connected through DVI (he selected MyMusic = Camera source). He turned PS3 on and in 5 seconds or so image appeared on the screen. Seems like the BV7 automatically recognized PS3. But when I change HDTV settings to DVI in “Camera”, it wont allow me to select the source and won’t recognize TV box.
The names in the connection menu (AV1, AV2, CAMERA, etc) are matching the naming of the physical / analog inputs on the back. Any connection can be linked to an individual remote key. That is done using the SOURCE entry. So e.g. AV2 can be assigned to TV, AV3 to DTV and so on. DVI can then be assigned to that source using the HDTV option.
The HDMI options are shown there because back in the days they offered an external HDMI switch / expander that is automatically controlled by the TV.
In your video you are assigning the CAMERA input to the DTV remote button. That is the reason it doesn’t react to the CAMERA remote key any longer.
Also don’t forget to separately connect the audio signal from your source device as DVI does not carry that. You can either use SPDIF and select the matching port in the AUDIO SOCKET entry – or use the analog inputs (which are a bit inconvenient for the camera source – located behind the push-in flap on the side)
Wow – great work. Let me know if you want to sell one or help programming?
Thanks 🙂
Here you will find some extensive documentation about it and also how to buy one.
https://mdt.polyvection.com/Nice how-to repair guide with pictures by another forum member available from here:
https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/topic/beolab-3500-sometimes-responds-to-remote-control-sometimes-it-doesnt/#post-2973812 February 2024 at 21:54 in reply to: BeoLab 3500: sometimes responds to remote control, sometimes it doesn’t ? #52573Perfect! Happy to hear that it worked for you.
Likely many of the BL3500 will have exactly the same issue sooner or later. Would be a shame not fixing them. They are looking really nice and have a decent sound.
So thanks for publishing that how-to guide. Something I obviously missed in my other thread. 🙂12 February 2024 at 13:21 in reply to: BeoLab 3500: sometimes responds to remote control, sometimes it doesn’t ? #52570Nice progress.
If I understand wel, C18, 19 and 17 will have to be replaced, right?
Yes, exactly!
C3, 36, 35, 4 and 34 can stay in place?
Yes, I doubt that they have something to do with the IR reception. At least I haven’t touched mine.
Ah, now I get it. Yes, I think that behaviour makes a lot of sense in option 5/6.
No the holy grail is finding out: if the audio master is a BS5 with internal sources assigned to CD and RADIO – will a BS5 in option 5/6 within the same ML system but internal sources set to N.Radio / N.Music then show the song metadata in the display when activating CD?
I should be able to test that here. My main intention is to get showing up metadata in the BS5 display when feeding it with an external stream from MasterDataTool.
10 February 2024 at 14:06 in reply to: BeoLab 3500: sometimes responds to remote control, sometimes it doesn’t ? #52567Great, thanks for adding the pictures. Will for sure help others in the future.
I think to remember that my unit says “TIMER ON” and “TIMER OFF” when pressing that touch button. Can’t test that currently. It is mounted in a pretty inaccessible location.
Otherwise it’s looking identical.If you want to be really sure if the problem comes from the IR receiver circuit you have to probe it with an oscilloscope. In the BeoLink Active service manual you’ll find the schematic of the silver IR eye. It uses the same IR receiver chip so the circuit should be pretty much the same. You should be able to probe the outgoing (demodulated) IR signal on pin 7 of the U2506B chip.
Thank you! I really appreciate your help (thumbs up)!
Sure, no problem. Maybe let us know here if you got any further with that issue then.
I guess I could try to do a test where I set the BS5 up to have the CD command for internal music, and the Radio command for internet radio. Then if I have a Beoport connected via masterlink I should be able to test if the BS5 can fetch the source from that
Just gave it a try here. Doesn’t work unfortunately. So no external source extension for BS5. When you send it e.g. a N.Radio request it will answer with “source not available”. In contrast a BC2 / BS9000 etc. would forward such a request to the “source center” device then. BS5 doesn’t do that.
However if I choose A.MEM the BS 5 screen is black and no sound is comming through.
Also tested it now. Same here. It does actually the same when internal sources are set to N.Radio/Music and you are selecting CD. On the ML it then pretends to be playing something but the screen stays off and no audio comes through (VM:2 / AM:0 setup). Who knows.
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