Limited edition flagship B&O product

[Mr10Percent]

I can get the refurbishment of an old Beogram – particularly a factory refurb. But to put it bluntly, in my opinion, B&O are moving in many ways back to oblivion. The BG is in world-terms a mediocre sound deck, as is the cartridge…as is the BL28 loudspeakers, the Core is well below mediocre in terms of SQ as well. A nice custom maple/oak/walnut or whatever can be hand crafted for a fraction of the part-price. The anodising of the alu-parts is in this colour-combo is bordering on vulgar. I get the package of the parts but it screams “no more ideas, rehash the past”.

I think there is something very wrong with a brand – particularly luxury brands when they keep re-hashing merchandise (Ferrari caps, tee-shirts, Aston Martin umbrellas, Omega Speedmasters etc..) to get that super-premium of basically selling tatt and the well-off soak it up.

Company’s then get lazy and make this stuff all the time – driven by Marketing rather than rather than true innovation. Then they die.

Sorry to be negative on this but I’d rather see B&O (or their chosen contractors) advertise for a pay as you go/at cost Deck refurbishment programme (and why stop there – plenty of good loudspeakers and BeoMasters out there with the ability to undertake reproduction components) and have current owners re-generate a second life for these products….rather than what seems the current practice of hoovering up all old decks from eBay and causing massive asset inflation to be ginned-up for a tasteless NY/LA Man-pad that will never really get any use or be enjoyed and savoured.

[matador]

Mr10Percent wrote:

The anodising of the alu-parts is in this colour-combo is bordering on vulgar.

I Agree…

Mr10Percent wrote:

I think there is something very wrong with a brand – particularly luxury brands when they keep re-hashing merchandise…

Again, I agree…

Mr10Percent wrote:

Omega Speedmasters etc…

I can’t agree more (only smart move was the MoonSwatch)…

Appart from this, I must say I don’t really care. That kind of things, relayed by fancy magazines and instagram post make just raise our Beogram 4002 value (happy when you own it, less when your look for one, but, hey…).

Now, whoever want a beosystem like that one but with more peaceful or classic color palette can make it’s own, to his tastes, with the money he has : from my poor Beocenter 72-97, to an old but B&O refurbished BG4002 paired with any Beolab speaker and any high-end RIAA pre-amp. Thank you B&O for giving us the idea of that setup.

That said, the real shame of it is the color… Awfull.

[Sandyb]

Completely agree.

I have no issue, and indeed actively encourage, brave design decisions. Classic designs are often borne out of such decisions. Timeless achievements come out of this.

But this is, if anything, divisive only because of its price, nothing more.

The only achievement of these 50-60k systems is taking money from the mega wealthy. And perhaps, in line with the investor updates of the last 12-18 months, perhaps we should take more literally (their view/words) them becoming a company for the super wealthy alone.

Hard to enthuse about this kind of thing.

 

 

[Mark]

This topic seems to have brought out a lot of emotion out of me!

Millemissen wrote:
“The Beosystem 72-23 is a testament to Bang & Olufsen’s dedication to extending the longevity of products in the consumer electronics industry”, says Mads Kogsgaard Hansen, Head of Product Circularity at Bang & Olufsen.

I am wondering what they mean by this.  Are they saying we saved 100 turntables from the trash heap and we sell them to the rich?

I would like it to mean what Mr10Percent wrote:

Mr10Percent wrote:

Sorry to be negative on this but I’d rather see B&O (or their chosen contractors) advertise for a pay as you go/at cost Deck refurbishment programme (and why stop there – plenty of good loudspeakers and BeoMasters out there with the ability to undertake reproduction components) and have current owners re-generate a second life for these products….rather than what seems the current practice of hoovering up all old decks from eBay and causing massive asset inflation to be ginned-up for a tasteless NY/LA Man-pad that will never really get any use or be enjoyed and savoured.

What is B&O going for here?  Are they looking to become a high-end home decor brand?  Are they hoping to sell these to Hollywood to be used as a set piece in an appartment for a McDonalds employee?

I’m sure the profit on these are incredible.  If they sell 100 of these at £55,000, it probably has a much better bottom line than selling 6111 Beosound A5’s.  But what does this do for the mortal BeoWorlder?

I am lucky that I found a Beogram 8002 on eBay that was refurbished by someone who knows what they are doing.  Its been working fine.  This is my second 8002 purchase, the first was nothing but problems, even after multiple visits to the B&O repair shop.  While it’s not as elegant as the 4002 (series) is does have that nice double-sided tape elegance!

Playing vinyl is an occasional pleasure for me. I have to be in the mood to devote myself to the music for a period of time.  It is a wonderful experience for me.  I often ponder how much I would be willing to spend on a “Beogram 4000c” if they ever became available.  I don’t need an entire vinyl music system, just the turntable, but the original price of about $10,000 US is too high for me.

[Mr10Percent]

I am wondering what they mean by this. Are they saying we saved 100 turntables from the trash heap and we sell them to the rich?

What is B&O going for here? Are they looking to become a high-end home decor brand? Are they hoping to sell these to Hollywood to be used as a set piece in an appartment for a McDonalds employee?

I’m sure the profit on these are incredible. If they sell 100 of these at £55,000, it probably has a much better bottom line than selling 6111 Beosound A5’s. But what does this do for the mortal BeoWorlder?

I sadly believe as per my last post…..that is exactly what they are doing. The point is that it is not just for the rich………I would feel comfortable that if I really wanted I could cobble together the cash for one of these…but would I want to?

The real issue is that in my opinion B&O have done some serious work in overcoming the “all style and no substance” mantra with the BL90, 50 and Theatre. They have also done this at the more affordable end with the Beosounds. I.e the average Joe on Beoworld and quite a few others have rebuilt the brand and it’s credibility. B&O are now destroying this by releasing this product at the price and in arguably a vulgar colour scheme. You could literally buy a very blingy world-class deck, cartridge and phono-amp, plus the BL28s and still have £20k in change to spend at HVM on vinyl.

The person who buys this I believe won’t give two flying figs as to what it is…or it’s history but it’s just another trophy in a pretty apartment with views. Those aspiring to buy their first Beosound or replace one…read this and in my opinion give up right away. Very bad for future sales IMHO.

I am lucky that I found a Beogram 8002 on eBay that was refurbished by someone who knows what they are doing. Its been working fine. This is my second 8002 purchase, the first was nothing but problems, even after multiple visits to the B&O repair shop. While it’s not as elegant as the 4002 (series) is does have that nice double-sided tape elegance!

Playing vinyl is an occasional pleasure for me.

Me too did exactly the same with my 8002. Sound quality is ok-ish (for the age) but it’s an enjoyable experience if that is your thing?

[Sandyb]

Re their target market now, I’d point everyone to all their recent investor updates of the last 1-2 years.

They are targeting Ultra High Net Worth Individuals. I’ll leave it up to everyone here to decide whether they fit in that category, or Very HNWI just below, or anything below that.  This is not my interpretation, this is what they have said.

Lower production volumes, much more bespoke and customisation, and made to order stuff. A production process more like Ferrari they mentioned last call i.e order, and long lead time.

Will there be still stuff for the more regular B&O customer? Sure, but the risk is that the more functional products will start to look a bit ho-hum, while the wow stuff will be at this price bracket.

[Mr10Percent]

Sandyb wrote:

Re their target market now, I’d point everyone to all their recent investor updates of the last 1-2 years.

They are targeting Ultra High Net Worth Individuals…..This is not my interpretation, this is what they have said. A production process more like Ferrari they mentioned last call i.e order, and long lead time.

….and if the stuff is up there like Ferrari performance then ok, but if they are following the Aston business model (old tech, massive depreciation) or McLaren business model (breaks down, warranty issues etc..) then it ain’t going to last long will it?

[Dillen]

This is not the only Bang & Olufsen product currently available on the market.
There are many others to choose from. And at many price levels, – for beach or home use.

You don’t have to buy any of it, if you don’t want to.

These Beogram based products may bring a respectable revenue – I cannot say – but I see them merely as novelty products, really.
Colors can be discussed. A matter of taste, I suppose.
Nice none-the-less.
Unique and special.

You could take a look at how Bang & Olufsen chose to mark their 50 years anniversary in 1975 product-wise;
Well, to put it short they … (insert drum-roll)… put a sticker on a number of portable radios and distributed them
to the employees who participated in the celbration party at the factory.

Not exactly an earth-quake of a product – but collectable still, –  almost 50 years later.

Martin

[Mark]

Dillen wrote:

This is not the only Bang & Olufsen product currently available on the market. There are many others to choose from. And at many price levels, – for beach or home use. You don’t have to buy any of it, if you don’t want to.

I think there are many B&Ophiles that would love to get turntable but only have eBay as a source to get one, and that’s always risky.  You really have to know how to properly ship a turntable to have any chance it will reach the buyer in working condition, if it is properly working in the first place.  Then the worry is how long their new 40 year old turntable will last. I think there would be a market of people that would actually want to use it, probably not huge, but to see them go at these prices is quite frustrating.

[matador]

Honestly, how many of us, of you, would buy a brand new Beogram inbox, with full warranty ans panels stickers?

I mean aren’t we praising those beogram, appart that they’re beautiful, because we save them from a certain death, because we like to repair them, adjust them, fight with them to bring them to work?

If you, like me think the same, who cares they sell very expensive ones to whealthy people?
If in the end a refurbished, painted like a stolen car 2020 beogram 4002 value increases, where will be the value of my trully original 1972 BG? A fraction of it maybe but still something. And even then, would I depart from it?

Anyway, two things, two audiences.

[Mark]

matador wrote:

I mean aren’t we praising those beogram, appart that they’re beautiful, because we save them from a certain death, because we like to repair them, adjust them, fight with them to bring them to work?

My Beogram 8002 equipped with an SMMC1 cartridge and the MMP3 phono preamp is well worthy of praise, at least in my system.  If I could get a B&O completely refurbished 4002 turntable, minus the B&O preamp, I bet equipped with the SMMC20CL+ cartridge I would be singing its praises every time I use it!

 

[trackbeo]

+1 @Sandyb: At least this item conjures up some real money, maybe even enough to pay for a designer or two for another year.  Versus calculate how much extra profit there was for making “gradient green” BeoSound 2’s, given they limited the production run to 15 — that’s right, fif-teen! — units.  Even if the excess MSRP went 100% to B&O and the margin on the base sale price also went to them and not dealers, that amounts to a hill of beans.  They shoulda done 100-999 if they wanted to make extra money, that’s not what it’s about.  [Edit: Website vague, might be 15 “per market”, still de minimus.] Will we see “ombré orange” & “variegated violet”, and will that matter to the bottom line either?  IF they can sell all the 72-23’s, no matter what pejorative you apply to the “man-pad” decor, it’s a good thing for everyone, both here, and in Streuer.  The only way it’s bad for us here is if they are so successful that they decide to double or treble the current prices on everything else because “it worked!”

[Sandyb]

Well that was kind of my point. They will sell them, as they have quickly sold out all of the similar recent limited edition things (i.e the stuff at UHNWI prices).

But the risk is that their more mainstream products / releases become more humdrum over time.

And as per your last sentence, the direction of travel has clearly been to raise prices and margins to compare with some of the more successful global luxury brands. This is indeed what the company has said on their investor calls.

It will mean that for some here, possibly myself too, some of their regular portfolio (be it Beolabs or Beosounds) are either out of reach or just down make sense.

[trackbeo]

Could be worse… At $60,000, Linn is getting in on the act: a new Jony-Ive-designed Sondek (LP12-50[th anniversary edition]) debuted today, also limited run, of 250: https://www.linn.co.uk/uk/turntables/lp12-50

It is minimal but it isn’t beautiful — OK, well maybe, to one who has USM Haller everywhere.  At least the 72-23 is arguably pretty, and includes “Sond”-making equipment with the turntable!

[matteventu]

trackbeo wrote:

The only way it’s bad for us here is if they are so successful that they decide to double or treble the current prices on everything else because “it worked!”

I mean, isn’t that what already has happened several times? Beosound speakers in the last 10 years basically doubled in price.

 

Beoplay A1 was £200, Beoplay M3 £280, Beoplay M5 £529.

 

Now Beosound A1 comes at £239, they got rid of cheaper speakers (P2, except the relatively new Explore), and the less expensive multiroom speaker (previously M3, £289) was less than half the price of the current less expensive multiroom speaker (Emerge, £699), despite Emerge not even having the same driver capabilities as M5 (£529).

Let’s not talk about the Beosound 1 (£995 -> £1399), Beosound 2 (£1350 -> £2649), Balance (£1750 -> £2399). Similar story with A9 and Level.

 

Okay inflation and everything, but no other company has raised prices this much.

[OlivierC]

Hi Steve,

Thank you and Harrie for the detailed and informative video about such a rare and exclusive kit.

I have been intrigued by the details seen in a glimpse at 5:57.
Maybe Steve’s cables would have deserved a tidier management even if they are normally concealed, nevertheless it is still interesting to see what it is hidden behind the wooden panels inside the cabinet.

My understanding is that there is a BS Core that it is receiving the input from the BG 4000c.
Then the Core is connected to the BL Transmitter, that it is providing the sound signal to the BL28’s (via WiSA or PL).
Still I can see more “spaghetti”, such as what I am guessing Ethernet and iPhone cables, but I am not sure about the purpose.
Maybe there is also some sort of multi plug adapter, as it would allow to have a single power plug to be connected to the wall socket instead of having the three power connections (Transmitter, Core and BG).

EDIT: I forgot that there is a 4th device: the Qi charger for the BR Halo (or other Qi-compatible device). Maybe that’s what the iPhone-like cable is for.

Is there anyone that can comment on this?

Thanks!

Olivier

PS @Matador, everyone loves your Beocenter 72-97!

[Steve at Sounds Heavenly]

Hi Olivier,

Normally the cables are more neatly routed, but I visited very soon after the system had arrived, so they didn’t have time to get them tidy… The cable that I supply to B&O links the Beogram 4000c to the 3.5mm line input of the Core.

As well as the Core, there is a Transmitter 1 in the shelving inside the top of the cabinet for a wireless connection to the speakers. However, the guys at Houten have cabled the speakers, so they have added an RJ45 splitter and RJ45 Powerlink cables as well (these aren’t usually in the 72-23 setup). There is also a Qi wireless charger in the top panel of the cabinet for the Halo as you mentioned.

Kind regards, Steve.

[matador]

OlivierC wrote:

@Matador, everyone loves your Beocenter 72-97!

Thank you Olivier !

[milva1]

Millemissen wrote:

That is not a flagship. It is just a modded turntable with a Core and the 28’s in a – admitted – beatifully crafted cabinet. Something for very few people with loads of money to spend on nostalgia (for some probably even just as an investment). Why so much efford on keeping an an inferior reproduction medium alive – I don’t get it?

Is Beogram 4002 really an inferior reproduction medium? Maybe there are different opinions out there?

https://www.hifinews.com/content/bo-beogram-4002-turntable

[Steve at Sounds Heavenly]

Thanks Milva1,

I always enjoy reading Tim’s articles, he is a very knowledgeable B&O enthusiast and a nice guy too! Great to see that the response to the Beogram (and indeed the new Beosystem) has been very positive in the press and on other B&O fan sites (Discord, Facebook, etc) as I think most people get the concept that this is a niche “halo” product to showcase what B&O can do and to celebrate their history.

I fully understand that this isn’t for everyone, in the same way that bespoke coloured Beolab 90s will never become a mass market product. Beosystem 72-23 makes me excited to be a B&O fan again, just as the original Beogram 4002 excited me as a teenager in the 1980s.

Kind regards, Steve.

[Author]

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