[NQVHNWI]

Great minds.

Im currently working through this and making my own custom cables for the Theatre Height Surrounds. Ive opted for CAT7 /Class F which is the B&O standard.

This is some background reading.

[NQVHNWI]

I think the way the BSTH and BL28/50/90 work in my mind is as I’ve suggested in the last few threads:- namely, if there is a source played through the BSTH, it takes control of the output signal based on the Room-Sense and connected speakers and the baseline speaker profiles B&O painstaking inserted into the BSTH. The signal (I guess) bypasses all of the BL28 calibration, DSP and internal Mozart sources.

When you play a source internal to the BL28 or inject one that is not via the BSTH, that I assume goes via the BL28s DSP. Hence why there is a persecution of sound difference.

I guess the way to test is to recalibrate the BL28’s only with a duvet over each speaker. Then, if the sound is poor in standalone mode but ok as a part of the BSTH, then that should confirm mode of sound correction is different, source dependant?

I may be 180 about turn on this but that is my guess?

[NQVHNWI]

It was counter-intuitive to me as well but at the time, the development of the BL90 did not allow the input of USB volume control (Im not sure if it does now or not). However, I opted for the Auralic Vega G2 DAC on the grounds that I could:-

• increase the competency of the G2 by adding incrementally extra improvements over time
• XLR is the defacto cabling system used in most high-end Source to Source equipment
• XLR also fitted in with my speaker placement and source placement (+6m apart – no good for USB)
• But with an option to go digital to digital when the BL90 was capable.
• If I ever wanted to split apart from B&O (and boy o boy I’ve been tempted until recently), the Auralic and BL90 can live together perfectly.
• The Auralic Vega G2 can support DNLA to pipe-in music from my music server (or NAS) – thus compatible with the prior arrangement via the BV.

I think you can get into a rabbit warren of capable streamers. It is a balance of what you want, what you want to pay and perceived quality. It may be there is an all-in-one solution such as the Auralic Altair G1 (discontinued – I have one in the office driving BL3’s – soon to be BL17s) which have a streamer, DAC and can take an internal harddrive (Server) that may suit your needs – but – but the BL50s do not have XLR so you will need to look whether the Altair G1/G2 is suitable in terms of connections.

Other possibilites are to plug-in say an Aries G1/G2 and keep it all digital and include and internal server…..but you need to listen if it is the sound you want.

By adding the Auralic Sirius – a sophisticated up-sampler – native in the G2 series but can be used on the G1, you can take all your 44/16 music files up to DSD512, (which gives a really clean filtration in effect – not more data) before the Lab90/50’s drop it back down to 192 for internal processing. Another meaningful step up sound-wise.

I could go on and on on this but in essence you need to look at the market, swap the Auralic brand for Bluetone, Aurender, DCS, Lumen etc…etc… and find the sound/price that suits you.

Ultimately, I believe you will be impressed in what different 3rd part sources can do compared to B&O Source when playing through the BL50.

[NQVHNWI]

Sandyb wrote:

isn’t the main difference amongst your 3 scenarios that the first includes the Auralic DAC?

Well yes. But that’s the point. An analogue XLR signal goes into the BL90 and sounds as it should. That means something in the LG Media Player, or whatever converts Deezer (per the OP) to Powerlink Analogue or the Powerlink itself is the source of reduced SQ from what it is to what it could be and that in one sense, shows the latest generation of Beolabs are too transparent for Beovisions (BSTH+LG) and their internal codecs/apps. Older Beolabs benefit from the improved processing

 

[NQVHNWI]

Just adding to my comments above. The real game changer for me with the Theatre (and why I’m smitten with it) is that from BV7-55 to Avant 65 to Eclipse 65, B&O was costing me probably a clear £2 to 2.5K per year in Beovision ownership. That is big cheddar. That is for technological issues, screen burn-ins, DVDs, ML then NL/ML then NL, now Mozart and the interconnectivity of everything else (speakers, sources etc…). Replacing the G2 screen – assuming all else stays the same every 5yrs cuts that cost to less than £400/year.

The Harmony is not going to be a cheap TV (even though the screen panel can be easily replaced) to make and sell.  Sure, there is £2-6k in LG C2/G2 panel but then another £15/17/40k in motorised mount depending on chosen screen. There may be a lot more margin for B&O in selling big-screen Harmony’s but I’d wager that there are 20 – 30 -50 Theatres leaving Struer right now for every Harmony built?

Like Beoplay….volumes count.

 

[NQVHNWI]

fansastic wrote:

My feeling is that an upgrade for the Harmony is not so complex as stated here. There is plenty of room in the wings to add upfiring speakers. Only challenge could be the woofers,

OK, but here’s the thing. Beoworlders keep saying these things are never complex but with the exception of (I think BL8002 to BL18), I don’t recall any B&O design getting a technological update. sure there’s a MK1, 2 and 3 on a few models – probably internal parts sourcing. So like where was the 32in Avant with LCD screen?, BC2 with BR?, BS5 with touchscreen, BS9000 with BR compatibility? Upgrade the BV7 with BR? Eclipse with interchangeable Panels?

Lots of great ideas here….but none of them ever happened. I doubt B&O will update or redesign the Harmony (other than for spares replacement). They are more likely to bring a whole new class of model out instead revamping old models looking at past form.

Also, with the so-called Cradle to Cradle philosophy, they may revamp but the Harmony was never designed that way. Then again, Cradle to Cradle may just mean modular servicing of swap parts for +10years rather than anything more dramatic.

[NQVHNWI]

Im not 100% certain it is internal loudspeaker room correction. To me, playing music via the LG Media Player and the DNLA network, the music loses a good deal of edge and its like there is a bit of “fog” in the room, while playing via the Auralic is crystal. It may be the Powerlink doing the damage?

Consider three pathways:-

Melco Server >> DNLA Network >> Auralic Streamer (512)>> Auralic DAC >> XLR (Analogue) >> BL90 (ADC 192) = Superb.

Melco Server >> DNLA Network >> Eclipse/LG Media Player >> Powerlink (Analogue) >> BL90 (ADC 192) = “Meh”.

Melco Server >> DNLA Network >> BSTH/New LG Media Player >> Powerlink (Analogue) >> BL90 (ADC 192) = Much better than Eclipse/LG but not close to the Auralic pathway.

Its either BSTH improves the LG Media Player or the new LG Media Player is better than the old app and/or the Powerlink is better?

Finally, BL90/50/28 will most likely have been designed around a “true digital rendering process” and streamline. Older Beolabs 1, 6000, 8000, 9 etc…may have been better receiving from the old true analogue sources. The BSTH sorta bridges the gap between the generations improving older units but not doing as much as the pure digital loudspeakers?

[NQVHNWI]

I think what you are experiencing with the BSTH and BL28 is what I have readily experienced with Eclipse/BL90 or latterly, BSTH/BL90. Direct feed to the loudspeaker is significantly “better” (clarity, image, tonal complexion etc..).

I have run room-sense on BL90 only (N/W/O) and BL90+BSTH+BL3 and BSTH Only.

• For TV only, I now mainly run BSTH and no surrounds
• For Films (Netflix/Amazon/Kaleidescape etc..) full 5.1 (Atmos capable next week!!)
• For non-critical music LG Player via the BSTH ro BL90 only
• For critical music (Music server or Qobuz), BL90 via an Auralic stack and XLR.

What is not clear from your post is the Source. I have always been of the opinion that the LG Media Player (DNLA) in the Eclipse was rubbish, less so via eArc/BSTH. Or if you are piping an external source into the BSTH and it is acting as a pre-amp? i.e. is the Media Player or the BSTH causing a degradation in sound quality?

In both our cases, piping music into the loudspeaker directly seems to be the highest quality option.

[NQVHNWI]

Not sure what the output signal is with 5.0.2 but sound immersive enough where I’m sat.

Also noted, your screen-shot indicates Apple TV and the Codec is PCM, which suggests either the Apple TV or Theatre is downmixing or I suppose down emulating to the highest playable codec (PCM).

[NQVHNWI]

Bullet Train

source: Kaleidescape Server, Dolby Atmos, HDR

Loudspeakers: BL90, BL3, Theatre.

[NQVHNWI]

Please can you expand on what source and what connected loudspeakers you have if any?

[NQVHNWI]

The Harmony is big money – all in the motorised stand and it does not have Atmos (I think it is limited to 7.1?)

Apart from the showmanship of the speakers, the Theatre is a more capable product. I can’t see Atmos coming to Harmony but if the did, you would almost have to stump up or re-task surrounds……again, boosting the overall price point.

[NQVHNWI]

Everything I hear from my Dealer is they cannot build them fast enough. Back orders from December are now being delivered.

I think they will sell plenty and be very happy about it.

B&O need to capitalise on sales by introducing a small compact, powerful and flexible loudspeaker for Theatre surrounds. The Celestial is to much of a major install in my opinion.

[NQVHNWI]

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[NQVHNWI]

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[NQVHNWI]

I can see all Beovisions above 55in EoL soon because of the Theatre. Harmony is a very complex TV setup, the Eclipse with motorised stand slightly less so but rationalising to a single Beosound would save a significant operating cost I would assume?

I could also imagine the Stage going EoL in its current form with a new mini Theatre taking its place in the 48 to 55in range. Simplified and cheapened (no powerlink) but with similar mounting options.

All speculation on my part.

[NQVHNWI]

This track (Midnight – a Coldplay MOS remix) is excellent for watching your loudspeakers just sonically disappear into thin air and for listening to a totally immersive ultra-wide sound stage if Electronica is your bag?

 

[NQVHNWI]

Today, I just pulled the tigger on a used pair of BL17’s. These will go as my Office speakers and the office BL3’s will move to height speakers with the Theatre.

I considered the keeping the BL3s and adding a BL11 but in the end kept the simplicity. Ill give the BL17s a review and see if they are worth the fuss.

My direct opinion on the BL17 per the threads above is that it seemed to me to be an unrealistically expensive loudspeaker. It looked like BL4000 but at its EoL, B&O were charging I think £3600-3800. Compared with other offerings – no matter how good the Bl17s are/were, that looks a lot of cheddar for a small simple-looking loudspeaker.

[NQVHNWI]

My comments (bias) is based on ownership rather than critical listening comparison.

I had the BL5 for approx 13years. They were solid and only fault was an upper tweeter replacement. The sound to my ears was rich and tonally “thick”. I never thought of the BL5 bass as boomy but it is certainly not as detailed and layered as the BL90 bass.

When finally upgrading from the BL5 to 90’s, my original thoughts were that the sound was different – not better and not initially preferred. As I grew into the 90’s, the bass was recognised as superior, detailed etc… The imaging from the 90s is in another league. And so it should be.

I had a decent listening session of the BL28s when finalising the deal on the Theatre. It is a nice sounding loudspeaker and leagues away in sound from the gen1 and gen2 column speakers..

For me, I don’t care for the looks, I don’t care for the gimmicky curtains but most of all, the BL28s don’t have the same sound presentation and ease as the wide-body Beolabs (5, 50, 90).

However, lIke  all BLs, you get used to the sound and adapt to it. I don’t think it is absolute sound quality you can pitch between the BL5 or 28. It’s personal preference.

The BL5’s are getting on a bit now. My old BL5, somewhere, loved in a new home are getting on for 20yrs old now. That has to present owners with a serviceability issue going forward. I think B&O are servicing them for the foreseeable future as it has to be seen to “support” its first mega-expensive loudspeaker. However, that only holds if they can get the parts so you better make enquiries as to what is what.

[NQVHNWI]

I have commented on the main Theatre thread that there is an issue in comms beteew the BR1, BeoApp and theatre. Too many configurations of the TV/Music Lists in the app crash the BR1 and the BR remote no longer updates.  Configure a PUC with the source active (or the 2nd PUC), causes a lock-up.

Hard reset of Theatre seems the only way for now. Reset of the BR does not work, not a soft reboot of the theatre.

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