The Prize Draw – Thoughts Please…

[jbarhydt]

After my initial reply I have kept up with all of the other great ideas and comments generated.  Here is one more half-baked idea that maybe someone on the forum can turn into a great idea.   What if a user could post a question that a more knowledgeable person could answer in return for a contribution to the cause.  For example let’s say a question is a real head scratcher and  requires deep knowledge, and a member is willing to pay $50US  for an answer/solution.  The member that answers the question gets some amount credited towards the membership fee while the forum gets the cash.  I can think of  questions that I’ve had over the years that I would gladly have paid an expert to answer.   Here is one example – I had an Avant 55 that died, but I salvaged the working speakers and motorized movement before heading to the recycle center.  I’d be happy to pay for a solution on how this can be reused, wiring diagrams and such. Maybe this is outside the scope of the forum, but it is an example of something where the manuals and schematic don’t seem to be readily available.   Maybe there is a member that sees the question and says that they can answer it for a “b ticket”.  I go to the Beoworld store and buy a “b ticket” for a set price. In some ways this is similar  to buying the postage to mail a prize.  The member that answers the question gets some level of credit from the answer.  Maybe it could be as simple as the “buy Lee and Keith a coffee button”, but it is a payment for someone’s membership.  Anything to keep this site viable.  Cheers.

[vikinger]

Radio Paradise is funded  entirely on voluntary subscriptions. Twice (?) a year they appeal for funds via the broadcasts, and by emailing registered or previous subscribers. It’s a model that has worked for them for about 15 years, but they do keep adding to their methods of streaming.

Maybe Beoworld can make a twice a year funding appeal in addition to existing subscriptions.

Graham

[deaddruid]

We seem to have strayed a little from Lee’s original question – partly my fault, I know.

It’s all good stuff, but the real questions would seem to be:

1. Should Lee be paying for the prizes personally – No!
2. Should the website be self-sustaining – Yes!
3. Can we currently afford to run the draw – No.

I think it’s that stark.

So much as I enjoy the draw, it should stop until either income increases, or we find another way to run the draw.

We’ve all contributed ideas on how to increase income. Unfortunately each of them would require Keith to put in even more hours to add to the site. The priority tasks may therefore be:

1. Find an assistant for Keith
2. Collect more information on the effectiveness of each of our suggestions, perhaps by contacting webmasters who already use those techniques.

Then it might be possible to increase income, and return to a draw – or other incentives.

As always, just a few of my thoughts.

Mark

[mhenryk]

Hi Everyone,

Few small comments from me whatever they worth it.

Clear goal

• In my opinion, true value of Beoworld is in forum where people help each other and in manual/schematics repository. I personally think that both should be preserved somehow and they should be prioritized for that to happen.
• Access to forum needs to stay free of charge otherwise people might not want to engage on it at all.
• There is probably room for improvement with the way how information about wealth of knowledge that is available in manual/schematic is advertised.

Prize draw

• I personally think that possibility to win BeoGram that use to belong to Roger Moore was something truly special. I didn’t win it but this was something really great.
• if possible, decrease to 2 (summer and Christmas). If not possible, suspend it altogether.
• maybe decrease number of prizes that could be won?
• ask people on a forum to donate their stuff they don’t need/use anymore, to be used as possible prizes to win. Surely there are people there who own more than they need and would not mind share joy with others. Those people, if they wish could be named during prize draw if this helps.

Money

• Instead of increasing members fee, add options that are cheaper. If someone needs to spend 1 or 5$/E they might not think much about it. Add cheaper option to gain access to limited number of manuals downloads. For example: 2 downloads for 1$ and 10 downloads for 5$?
• do not increase membership fee but highlight possibility of donating more money if someone wish to do so
• try to figure out a way to connect with distributors, especially one that sell 2nd hand B&O stuff. It might be win-win situation where they can sell stuff that needs some TLC and at the same time point their customer towards Beoworld for help.
• I don’t know how but maybe there is a way to monetize know-how that is available in forum members heads. Maybe after receiving good and useful response to question posted on forum, person who asked question is poked by some automated system to contribute 1$ towards Beoworld website? Might be annoying buy maybe it will generate some money.

Awareness

• when I type in google “B&O help” I can only see links to official B&O site. No mention about Beoworld. It might be possible to influence positioning on Google. Maybe someone with such knowledge could help here?
• when I type in google “B&O manuals” Beoworld is at the bottom of first page (which is OK) but there is also a website https://beomanuals.com/ with what looks like all B&O manuals and they are for free. This kinda kills my idea about charging for them.
• maybe start some sort of campaign on Beoworld forum asking members to tell their friends about its existence? Concept of social network is certainly there. If there is a free way to utilize it, why not.

Longevity

• move forum from home server to some sort of Google, Amazon or Microsoft online service. This should decrease amount of effort that is needed to keep forum alive and stable. Explain the audience cost of it and clarify where contributions to Beoworld membership are used.

No great solutions here. Just some thoughts.

[solderon29]

I’m saddened to learn of Beoworld’s predicament.

I joined as it was a question of simply having to be involved in something that catered to my passion for B&O product.

I’ve met many interesting people here as a result,and gained a mass of information too.

Although I’ve been involved with B&O equipment for nearly fifty years,I’m still surprised by other Beoworld member’s knowledge.

I think that you need to capitalise on the value of the resource too.

There is of course a growing element of the “something for nothing” mindset,that won’t pay for anything,but I suspect that there are other’s that would be prepared to pay a token amount in respect of help received,or simply to donate to keep the site active?

Beoworld certainly needs to consult with web marketing experts,to look at way’s to generate income.I’m amazed that there is no advertising onsite,this is often the sole reason for having a web presence,and surely could be utilised sensitively?

I certainly would’nt object to an increase in subscription fee’s,and the prize draw is a bonus,not an incentive.Why not have a random tickeded unpredictable  draw,to keep people guessing.

I’m sure too,as other’s have suggested, that we could donate item’s from our own collections,as indirect contribution?

I’ve found Beoworld to be an invaluable resource over the years,and I wish the team the best for the future,and hope that you can continue

Nick

[Tim]

Hi Lee & Keith,

 

first of all big thank you and cheers to both of you. You do and have done an amazing job for an extremely long time with this forum. I can totally understand your reasons about the price drab but I think this is a good time to change some things.

First of all I think the price draw is great and should stay in one or another way. Second I think this could be the time to rethink things and restructure some things. Why? Because B&O changed, people on the forum changed and as you said things for yourself changed. Perhaps this could be the time for Beoworld 3.0? I mean the current Beoworld is amazing but perhaps people want something different.

These are things I could think about (just some brainstorming).

• General things
  • Where will the forum be hosted in future?
  • How much will this cost
  • What will be the core system of the forum? WordPress etc.
• Manpower
  • Is there enough admins to handle everything?
  • Can some people help with certain things without full admin rights?
• Financing the forum
  • Are the current levels of membership the right ones?
    • What differentiates these levels?
    • level cost – will more people be willing to join the silver level if it is cheaper?
  • Ads on the page?
    • Perhaps bronze level will have ads on the page and all other levels only the sponsor and no ads?
  • sponsorships
  • b&o affiliate store? If members buy from a Beoworld affiliate store (or b&o partner store) they get a free gold membership?
• Content
  • What content do people expect?
  • new categories/structure for the forum? Something Like Home Automation
  • Perhaps there is a differentiation between old and new b&o stuff?

 

These are just the 2 thoughts I had while walking the baby. I think in general the one or other poll would help to get numbers behind those questions.

 

In general I thing neither you or Keith should be paying a cent for this page as you donate us all so much of your free time. Thanks for your amazing work!

[9_LEE]

Just a quick post to say a big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread, and to the small number of people who have given some generous donations immediately after posting. You know who you are – and it’s incredibly appreciated.

Some very interesting comments and ideas, which gives Keith and I plenty to go on.  I plan to meet with Keith soon and we can dissect them all.

For now, the Spring Draw will be going ahead – and then maybe the next one being the Christmas Draw. After that, perhaps just one in Summer and one at Christmas – or just Christmas. Either way I’ve always really enjoyed giving lovely B&O away to true enthusiasts. It’s been a pleasure over the years to see so many genuinely happy and grateful winners of prizes I’ve always done my best to source.

So, once again, thank you all. I’ll take notes of all responses and when I meet with Keith we can work our way through them.

Please don’t stop with your thoughts though. Keep adding to this thread 🙂

[XavierItzmann]

Keith: OMG.  You really shouldn’t.
Lee and Keith: Thanks for everything you do.

I’d suggest an annual prize, if and only if funds allow.  And Lee, you should never ever dip into your pocket.

With regard to my comment to Keith: the reason I was away for years is because I was out cruising on a yacht.  We owners of Amel sailboats kept in touch via an active webforum.  This forum was for many years hosted by Yahoo Groups, so there was no cost to the “organization” such as it is.  In 2019 it was transferred over to Groups.io.  The group remains healthy and all sorts of advice and manuals are freely given.  Every few years even a meetup has been organized, and all because of the group’s camaraderie.

What does this have to do with B&O?  Well, if you think the B&O market is becoming rarified, how does a French brand that makes less than 100 yachts/yr sound to you?  The Amel forum also has no factory sponsorship whatsoever; in fact, Amel has at times competed by making its own but only for new product buyers!

Look, you could preserve the front of the website for membership upgrades and manual library… and push off the forum to a cloud platform.  Having the front of the website would help you maintain the search engine SEO.  And there is no law saying that you couldn’t extract the “top most-attended posts” and also repost them on beoworld.org as read only as a tool to maintain SEO; users interested in that “headline” section would click thru to the forum.

Around 2013 on the Amel forum there was a proposal to do a self-host like Keith does, and to abandon Yahoo.  I supported that idea until I got a little private talk from one of the “elders” that they didn’t want to go with self-hosted precisely because if the volunteers retired for whatever reason, the community would die.  I desisted in quiet disagreement but now I see the complete wisdom of these people and am glad they had a foresight some of us didn’t!

Thanks again for all you do, fellows.

[dmacri]

I echo what many others have already posted – Thank you and Keith for all the work you have done. I can’t spend nearly as much time on line lately, but I appreciate all the knowledgeable exchanges we find here. I vote for a nominal increase in the Gold Membership and a Christmas prize draw only, and with modest prizes only. You’ve put way too much of your own funding into past draws. Thanks for reaching out to us.

[beocool]

I’m late to this post. I’m lucky enough to have won a prize on a number of occasions. It’s always great to win, but keeping the website around comes first. If that means the prize draw has to go or the membership price will be increased, you’ve got my support.

Thank you for reaching out to us.

[Peter the Biker]

First: Thanks to the moderation team!!!

Up to now I won three times:

1. Cool Brands 2011/2012: Nice reading including my BV 8 (now my sister’s)
2. BeoSound 5: What a nice Christmas present!
3. Struer trip 2012!!!

The third was the most important experience for me worth quite a bit more than 30 £ a year.

My recommendation: Prize draw only if the team does not have to invest its own money. More opportunities of meeting in real life (Annual meeting in Struer? Local meetings? Meetings at certain venues with B&O like IFA, CES (for me a little bit too far from home, as Peter Parker would say)).

PS: This forum helped me much to make the right decisions concerning buying B&O items, avoiding disappointments.

 

[Mjones007]

Reading this thread had reminded me to renew my gold membership which I’d left to lapse and never got around to renewing. To me this forum is worth far more than £30, even though though I never post, as it’s a gold mine of information and great for seeing how others are getting on with the latest product releases, etc.

To echo the comments of others, a huge thank you to Keith, Lee, and the team for the time they invest in keeping this site running, I’m sure it’s a never ending task, and one that takes up more spare time than we imagine.

With regards to the question of the prize draw, whilst maintaining this quarterly might encourage others to upgrade from the free level, if this is becoming cost prohibitive (Lee, you shouldn’t be buying the prizes from your own pocket in my opinion), could the number of prizes be reduced to say just 3, or if this doesn’t financially stack up, then like some have suggested, reducing these to a Summer and Christmas draw might be a good alternative if the finances allow.

[kirin]

So far all is said already what I could add here, but explicitely I want as well say „many thanks“ to Lee and Keith for the effort to keep the forum and Beoworld up and running! But also to the moderators and all the people here for the posts, information, and providing fun to read through the threads. I did create my account in 2008 when I started collecting and repairing  things. From beginning on I recognized here a really enthusiastic, nice and authentic community. I was also active in an  automobile forum, but the spirit here (also to other hifi forums) is much more relaxed, kind and funny. I did perform the upgrade because of the schematics and to support the effort. I did not hope to win anything, so it was really a pleasure to win double in one price draw – again, many thanks 🙂

To come back, I would also as many others propose a slight increase of the Gold fee and then rather to skip one price draw.  BTW: Facebook groups are no option for me 🙂

 

[Valve1]

Lee- Keith and all the Mod’s , thanks for all your work.

The prizes are not important but I did win 3 times.

Increase the price of membership and reduce prizes to once a year.

I cannot believe it was 10 years ago since the trip to Struer.

Keep up the good work .

[alfthemaker]

Hello Lee and Keith,

Apologies for the delay in replying. Like everyone else I would like to thank you for all the time and effort you put in to running and organising this site.

I would like the prize draw to continue in some form – whether it remains quarterly or moves to twice yearly or perhaps just annually. Furthermore, I am more than willing – even in these hard times – to accept an increase in subscription to cover the cost of these draws.

Andrew

 

[Milton78]

Hi Lee,

Firstly, I can only echo all the praise and positive things that have already been said – I am extremely impressed that this site is still up and running and looking so good, given the minuscule resources behind it. Very well done!

As for the question, I would vote for Option  Bi-annual draw, and although I love the prize draw, I mostly use the page for the manuals and the ability to ask questions in the forum on all matters related to B&O.

 

[MERCATS]

Hi LEE & KEITH,

Thanks for everything you both are doing to keep this great site going.

I am more than willing to pay more for gold membership, and would be happy with once a year draw or whatever you think is best.

I like others joined for information etc., and not for the draw.

I’m sure you will come up with a solution when you both meet !!!

 

[sverreh]

Keith, Lee and Steve,

Thank you for your effort and resources to support Beoworld and the forum. From my point of view, the main value is the combined knowlege in the community, and access to the service manuals and older user manuals. As such, the prize draw is not important. However, a decline of members — and knowlege — to support the site may be likely to accelerate without some kind of a carrot. Accordingly I am in favour of an annual or bi-annual prize draw as long as it can be carried out and be self-sustaining. Furthermore, a raise in the membership fees should be considered.

Hopefully I will be able to visit beoworld archives and the forum for many years to come, as I have done since the very start.

Best of luck,

Sverre

[OldJack]

I joined Beoworld in 2015(not sure).Whenever I needed advice,I have got friendly advice from the members.And that is great about forum.Regarding prize draw,reduce it to annual draw(around Christmas) and reduce number of prizes to 3,if that will be of help.

 

[9_LEE]

Hello Everyone, and thank you for your input. Some extremely valid points and some surprising insights which I genuinely didn’t expect.

I left it as long as possible to get everyone’s thoughts, then had a short last-minute holiday followed by a very busy work schedule which has pushed this reply out a little further than I’d hoped for – but.. here we are.

I met with Keith yesterday and we discussed the finances of the site going forwards, and also took into account the input here to come to the conclusion that the Prize Draw is an appreciated ‘Bonus’ which brings happiness and good feeling to individuals – and also the site as a whole.

As a result, we have decided to keep the Prize Draw – but make it Annual, at a time where we all love a good present.. Christmas.

I was actually surprised to see so many people simply favoured the survival of BeoWorld over the Prize Draw as I thought this was a pretty pivotal thing when deciding to upgrade to Gold. I was clearly pretty wrong, which actually points to the fact that you’re all selfless and simple want to support the site. I found this quite heartwarming and am actually embarrassed at how wrong I was.

So, the Spring Draw will go ahead this evening as usual – and the next one will be in December.  After that, the next one will be Christmas 2024.  Taking this into account we will increase the values of the Prizes slightly. Nothing silly-expensive, but it’ll give us a whole year to pick up bargains and the really rare collectibles which we all appreciate as B&O enthusiasts.

So, in conclusion – if revenues stay the same we can keep the draw.  The next obstacle is to try to increase revenue which will pay for site improvements, software licences, power and hardware upgrades and servicing, and so on.  I’ll do a separate post for this, again to garner input and ideas – and we also came up with some ideas yesterday which I’ll put to you.

Thank you all once again for your valuable input – and Good Luck in the Draw this evening!

 

 

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