Masterlink – Play button turns whole system off

[carolpa]

Madskp wrote:

So I just did some testing with some of my equipment:

Beocenter 9300 – 7 pin datalink cable –  1611 – masterlink cable – Beolab 3500 MK1 both with, and without a powerlink cable between the BC9300 and the 1611.

Beosound Ouverture – Masterlink cable – Beolab 3500 MK1

In bot cases I get the same behaviour as you describe even when I start the music from the master system.

Now what I expected. I will see if I have time to look more into this today

Madskp wrote:

speedsixdave wrote:
Do you have the short circuit in your setups, @madskp? No idea if this is actually relevant or not.
I am not sure. Most of my stuff is in a non permanent setup, so I often switch cables between different units. I will try to check up on this when I have some time, probably in a couple of days.

carolpa wrote:
Normal in ML : short STBY will stop only the product in the room addressed. Long STBY will put the whole system in standby.
That is also what the manuals for the link products describe, so even more puzzling that I can reproduce this issue with two different Audio Masters.

Will also try to look into trying with other components if the above does not change anything.

The T1611 was designed to connect a non ML Audio to a ML Video – or – to connect a ML Audio to a non ML Video.

In the proposed settting the Video ML/ Video non ML is missing. Maybe this is the cause of the behaviour.
Note: I have a Beosystem 7000 – T1611 – BLC connected in my Netlink. I have to set the BLC up as VMaster to work correctly if I’m right (note: I have to check this though! Currently the Beosystem 7000/BLC is out of order, starting early next week it is up and running again).

[speedsixdave]

carolpa wrote:

The T1611 was designed to connect a non ML Audio to a ML Video – or – to connect a ML Audio to a non ML Video.

In the proposed settting the Video ML/ Video non ML is missing. Maybe this is the cause of the behaviour.
Note: I have a Beosystem 7000 – T1611 – BLC connected in my Netlink. I have to set the BLC up as VMaster to work correctly if I’m right (note: I have to check this though! Currently the Beosystem 7000/BLC is out of order, starting early next week it is up and running again).

Is that right? The 1997 Masterlink manual has this:

BeoLink Converter is used when audio and video products with Master
Link and Audio Aux Link (datalink) have to be interconnected.
BeoLink Converter can be used in conjunction with both a video and an
audio master. BeoLink Converter features autoconfiguration, meaning
that it is able to detect automatically whether it is installed in a Master
Link audio or in a Master Link video system. Configuration takes place
when it is connected to the mains.
BeoLink Converter can also be used as ML-driver*, which means that it is
possible to connect e.g. a BeoCenter 2300 via the BeoLink Converter to
the Master Link and thereby distribute sound to all link room products
(see page 17).
BeoLink Converter is used in compatibility setups (see the section on
recommended compatibility setups, page 17).
1161166

Which I would interpret as ‘can be used in an audio-only setup’. Frankly I can’t understand why anyone would want to connect their telly to a multiroom setup, but that’s me being out of step I guess!

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[speedsixdave]

@TK – thanks for all that helpful and interesting information. If I can attempt to boil that down to my own level of understanding. everything is ‘Language A/MCL’ from the invention of the Beolink 1000 and MCL2, up to the invention of Masterlink, which is then a new ‘Language B/ML’, and the IR-eyes are not doing any translating, just passing ‘Language A/MCL’ messages. Newer ML equipment is presumably translating the Language A signals to Language B and in the case of the BL1611, back again:

Beolink 1000 > Language A/MCL > Beolink Passive > Language B/ML > Beolink Converter > Language A/MCL > Beomaster 6500

Possibly I’m wrong and there is no independent Language B, it’s just Language A with a bigger potential set of commands.

Anyway what I still think may be happening is that the short Standby command is being mis-translated or miscommunicated into Language B/ML. I presume this is happening in the Beolink Passive (or Active) but whatever circuitry is doing that mistranslation is bypassed if the Passive is used as an ML/MCL converter. This is definitely making my brain hurt a bit!

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[speedsixdave]

speedsixdave wrote:

At the moment I have no genuine junction boxes in ML cables, so there’s no shorting between pin 3 (wh/bl, ‘ML sensor’) and pin 12 (pink, ‘+supply voltage’), as recommended on pages 34 & 35 of this Masterlink handbook. I should be able to do this fairly easily at my distributor but not for a couple of days. Do you have the short circuit in your setups, @madskp? No idea if this is actually relevant or not.

Wrong again, disappointingly. I set out to connect the white/blue and pink on my distribution board but found they were already connected, which of course they have to be in a ML-plug to RJ45-plug cable. So that’s not the answer to the conundrum. FWIW I tried disconnecting the pink cable entirely, but then nothing worked.

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[Madskp]

I also had a little time yesterday where I tried to connect the White/blue and the pink wire i a ML cable and tried it withe the BS Ouverture + Beolab 3500 combo again with no difference in behaviour.

I have a RJ45->ML connection to my wall mounted BL3500, so I guess I also had this connection already.

Will try som othe combinations when time allows it

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

I had some time today to do a little testing.

I tried different option settings on both the BC9300 and the BS Ouverture (opt. 0, 1 and 2) and on the BL3500 (opt. 5 and 6), but no difference in behaviour.

carolpa wrote:

In the proposed settting the Video ML/ Video non ML is missing. Maybe this is the cause of the behaviour.
Note: I have a Beosystem 7000 – T1611 – BLC connected in my Netlink. I have to set the BLC up as VMaster to work correctly if I’m right

I the tried to connect my Beocenter 6-23 to the setup, and now it works as expected and I can start a CD on the BC9300 (or the Overture when that is the master), join the Beloab 3500 with a single touch on the mute button and unjoin by another press ont the mute button. Also I can make a long press on the mute button and it will turn off the Master system.

So it seems that a video master has some effect on how the system reacts to link room commands regardless of the use of a 1611 converter or a real ML audio system (Overture in this case).

I will also try this with my Beocenter 2 to see if that also applies to a more modern ML audio system.

 

Location: Denmark

[speedsixdave]

Well that is interesting, @Madskp, and I’m sorry I doubted you, @carolpa! It does seem a slightly peculiar state of affairs. Am I going to have to buy an old B&O tv and hide it in a cupboard somewhere to get a Masterlink audio setup to work properly?

Now I’m wondering whether it has to be a genuine video source or whether it’s possible to fool the system with an additional source into the 1611 as in Matador’s illustration?

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[Madskp]

speedsixdave wrote:

Now I’m wondering whether it has to be a genuine video source or whether it’s possible to fool the system with an additional source into the 1611 as in Matador’s illustration?

I am not sure the 1611 can do that just based on sound input, as it might need the datalink signal from a TV.

Another possibility is the NL/ML converter Carolpa mentions. If you do not need it for connecting NL equipment you might still be able to utilise it as a link room instead of an BL Active.

I have a few other ideas that may not work, but will try to test them in the comming days and report back.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Madskp wrote:

Another possibility is the NL/ML converter Carolpa mentions. If you do not need it for connecting NL equipment you might still be able to utilise it as a link room instead of an BL Active.

I can also try to test this in a stand alone environment to verify that it will work in that context

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

Had a little time again today.

First I tried a long shot by putting a Beolink Video into the ML network. That did not work.

Then I replaced the 1611 converter with a 1614 converter, and also added the 1611 into the ML network without anything other thatn ML and power attached to see if it would act as a V.master. That did not work either.

Then I put the 1611 back, and added the NL/ML converter to the system configured as V.master, but that did not work either.

So not much luck.

I will try the test with the NL/ML converter again double checking cable connections to be sure everything is as it should be.

Location: Denmark

[Madskp]

A little more testing today. Tried again with the NL/ML converter and some other cables, and this time it worked as expected so that is a possible solution for this issue.

 

Location: Denmark

[speedsixdave]

Madskp wrote:

A little more testing today. Tried again with the NL/ML converter and some other cables, and this time it worked as expected so that is a possible solution for this issue.

That’s interesting @Madskp. With the NL/ML converter configured as videomaster?

I was bidding on ebay for a cheap Beosystem 3 to try that too, but outbid. Hey ho. Not sure what I can try next.

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[Madskp]

speedsixdave wrote:

That’s interesting @Madskp. With the NL/ML converter configured as videomaster?

Yes. And I did just test it again with a IR eye and sepakers connected to the NL/ML converter, and it seems to work as a link rom and can join or unjoin while the music from the main system keeps playing (if started from the main system), and that did also work with the BL3500.

So this could be a solution with the added benefit that it can also work as a link room.

speedsixdave wrote:

I was bidding on ebay for a cheap Beosystem 3 to try that too, but outbid. Hey ho. Not sure what I can try next.

That could also be a possible solution, and would probably also work as a link room with speakers and IR eye connected. Probably the Beossytem 2 could also do this.

Location: Denmark

[speedsixdave]

Well I missed out on the Beosystem 3 but have successfully outbid everyone else in the entire world on a NL/ML Converter which will hopefully arrive for the weekend. The madness continues!

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[Madskp]

speedsixdave wrote:

Well I missed out on the Beosystem 3 but have successfully outbid everyone else in the entire world on a NL/ML Converter which will hopefully arrive for the weekend. The madness continues!

Hope this will suite you well. The NL/ML converter is a very versatile device and usefull for many type of setups.

If you are going to use an IR eye for it be aware that you will need the newer type with a join button to be able to use the buttons on the IR eye. If you however only need the IR functionality you can wire up the one of the older ML or MCL IR eyes but only connection to ground, +5V and data.

Location: Denmark

[speedsixdave]

Madskp wrote:

If you are going to use an IR eye for it be aware that you will need the newer type with a join button to be able to use the buttons on the IR eye. If you however only need the IR functionality you can wire up the one of the older ML or MCL IR eyes but only connection to ground, +5V and data.

That’s really useful to know, thanks. By chance I have an IR eye for a Beosystem 3 which has more connections inside than the standard round eye. Do you know if that would work with the NL/ML Converter? It’s just sitting in my spares box otherwise.

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[Madskp]

speedsixdave wrote:

By chance I have an IR eye for a Beosystem 3 which has more connections inside than the standard round eye. Do you know if that would work with the NL/ML Converter?

That should work to my. knowledge as long as you just wire up the ground, +5V and IR data connections. You can find the connections diagram for all the round IR eye’s in the Beolink Handbook (available in the Beotech section on Beoworld). there is a diagram for Beosystem4 where it is wired up with RJ45 connection. This should be the one to look at, but only connect the 3 signals mentioned above.

Location: Denmark

[speedsixdave]

Well my eBay ML/NL converter 1790 arrived on Friday, and a bit of time this weekend to do some testing.

Firstly caveat emptor, my ML/NL convertor – apparently Hardware Type F according to the web configuration – is a bit crippled as it does not have ports for Powerlink, for Line In, or for an IR sensor. When I looked again at the eBay photos that’s clear, but I had not thought such things existed so failed to look closely. I did look at the software version etc, which seems to be up to date – 1.43 or something. Not a problem for this particular problem, but it does mean I’m not going to be using it for any other exciting purposes.

After a lot of messing about with routers and IP addresses etc, I eventually got the thing connected to a web browser and was able to check it was set as V. Master. Then connected it to my Masterlink setup, turned everything on in hopefully the right order and… no change. Play button on  a ML-connected link device still turns everything off. I have not done extensive testing with lots of different IR eyes and devices but have tried various sorts of turning things on and off again.

I’m still baffled and a bit disheartened at this stage. Mostly I think I’d be better off going back in time to the reliable MCL system and wiring the house and new extension for that, but it does seem a bit strange to hard-wire a new build with fairly obsolete tech. One of the attractions of ML is wiring with standard Cat 7 infrastructure which could be used for ML, PL, NL or even The Internet. Or I could go the other way to the modern world of NL and Mozart but that brings all its own issues of network configurations, audio delay, potentially vast expense and, god forbid, controlling things via a phone app. In so many ways Masterlink feels like the sweet spot but if I can’t turn a link room off without the whole system going into standby, it’s all a bit pointless.

Location: UK

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[carolpa]

speedsixdave wrote:

Well my eBay ML/NL converter 1790 arrived on Friday, and a bit of time this weekend to do some testing.

Firstly caveat emptor, my ML/NL convertor – apparently Hardware Type F according to the web configuration – is a bit crippled as it does not have ports for Powerlink, for Line In, or for an IR sensor. When I looked again at the eBay photos that’s clear, but I had not thought such things existed so failed to look closely. I did look at the software version etc, which seems to be up to date – 1.43 or something. Not a problem for this particular problem, but it does mean I’m not going to be using it for any other exciting purposes.

After a lot of messing about with routers and IP addresses etc, I eventually got the thing connected to a web browser and was able to check it was set as V. Master. Then connected it to my Masterlink setup, turned everything on in hopefully the right order and… no change. Play button on  a ML-connected link device still turns everything off. I have not done extensive testing with lots of different IR eyes and devices but have tried various sorts of turning things on and off again.

I’m still baffled and a bit disheartened at this stage. Mostly I think I’d be better off going back in time to the reliable MCL system and wiring the house and new extension for that, but it does seem a bit strange to hard-wire a new build with fairly obsolete tech. One of the attractions of ML is wiring with standard Cat 7 infrastructure which could be used for ML, PL, NL or even The Internet. Or I could go the other way to the modern world of NL and Mozart but that brings all its own issues of network configurations, audio delay, potentially vast expense and, god forbid, controlling things via a phone app. In so many ways Masterlink feels like the sweet spot but if I can’t turn a link room off without the whole system going into standby, it’s all a bit pointless.

the BLC (NL/ML converter) is not “crippled”!

the first BLC sold had these ports covered with a plastic strip. It, the strips, can easily be removed.
then the PL, Line in and IR connections are available and working. See a picture of a later version to determine which port is which.

[speedsixdave]

carolpa wrote:

the BLC (NL/ML converter s not “crippled”!

the first BLC sold had these ports covered with a plastic strip. It, the strips, can easily be removed.
then the PL, Line in and IR connections are available and working. See a picture of a later version to determine which port is which.

Amazing! You’re quite right. Thanks @carolpa! I’ve peeled off the white plastic strips and there they are – two more RJ45 ports and two Kinch/phono sockets. That’s a world of future fun if I can ever get it configured properly!

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