An obsession – getting Beogram remote commands via Beosound 4!

[CharlieWednesday]

I admit, I am obsessed with finding a solution to this and I’ve brought it up in other posts, but I’m starting a new thread to really explore the possibilities.  When I had my Beocenter 8500 and Beogram 8500 in my office, one of the greatest pleasures was being able to remote control a turntable – only B&O.

For convenience and space however I now have a Beosound 4 in my office – the Beocenter is now in another room; still in use but not so much.

I would love to find a way of controlling my Beogram 3000 or 8500 with my Beo4 or Beolink 1000 remotes, while playing through my Beosound 4.  If I had the electronics skill I could probably build something with a Raspberry Pi and a soldering iron, but I don’t have that skill!

I have various cables, converters and so on in my collection now, not all of it being used, and am wondering if there is any way to make this happen?  This is what I have:

• Beolink Passive 1657
• Beolink Active 1636
• Beolink Converter 1611
• Beolink Converter 1614
• MCL2A
• MCL2AV (the one with TV rather than Aux)
• Beolink PC2

I’m thinking there must be a way to make it happen via the MCL2AV’s 7 pin input sockets, or the mystery PC socket on the Beolink Active, or the Audio Aux Link socket on the 1611 or 1614?  I know it might take some creative wiring too (I’d have to integrate a phono stage somehow, for starters), but I’d be up for that – as I say, this is an obsession!

 

 

 

[Madskp]

Just to start somewhere:

The control of datalink compatible Beogram, Beogram CD and Becord is done via the datalink80 protokol. This is in most cases only available vis the dedicated Phono, CD, tape and Tape2 sockets on various Beocenters, Beomasters and the MCL2AV. One outlier is the BS Ouverture where the AUX socket can function both as a Tape2 and Phono socket.

Control vise a CD socket can control both a Brogram CD and a Beogram Record player. The same goes for a phono socket, but this will not work sound wise with a CD player if a RIAA is installed in the Beocenter/Beomaster.

The datalink sockets on the 1611/1614 converters and the Aux sockets on various Beocenter/Beomasters and the MCL2AV use the datalink86 protokol which is also used for MCL and Powerlink, but isnit compatible with the datalink80 devices.

 

My best suggestion would therefore be to connect the Beogram to the CD socket of the MCL2AV, connect a datalink cable from the Aux socket of the MCL2AV to the 1611 converter and let that work as a main room. Then set the BS4 up as a link room (option 5 or 6) and control the Beogram with Link + CD commands.

This of course has the downside that the sources of the BS4 can not be shared to link rooms.

The MCL2AV in this setup can be substituted with a Beomaster 3500/4500/5500/6500/7000 wich probably should give you control with PHONO commands (I will have to double check that works)

Hope this is of some help for further progress

[CharlieWednesday]

Thanks Madskp – I had a feeling you’d be the first to reply!

My MCL2AV is the version with the TV socket, not the Aux socket, but maybe it would still work?

I had never considered using a Beomaster though, so am interested in that suggestion.  How would that work?  Would  Beomaster 5000 be suitable?  Beomaster 5000 seems a good option as I believe that one has a built-in phono stage?  Beomaster 5000 will often come up for under £100 on eBay too.

Let me see if I understand:

• Beogram 3000 connects to phono input of a Beomaster (5000, ideally)
• Beocenter 5000 set up as a link room
• Beocenter 5000 connects to 1611 via Aux Link (would the 1614 not work instead, since the BS4 can work as the audio master?)
• 1611 connected to BS4 via Masterlink

Would that allow me to operate the Beogram via Link>Phono (or Link>N.Radio)?

I do currently have link room speakers connected to my BS4 though – a BL3500, and the Beolink Passive, with a pair of CX50s.  Both of these are set to opt4.  Would the above mean that my link room speakers could no longer work that way?

[CharlieWednesday]

I forgot to add, I do also have a BV8 TV included in the Masterlink network in my office, I don’t know if that adds any extra complication.

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

My MCL2AV is the version with the TV socket, not the Aux socket, but maybe it would still work?

That works the same yes

CharlieWednesday wrote:

I had never considered using a Beomaster though, so am interested in that suggestion.  How would that work?  Would  Beomaster 5000 be suitable?  Beomaster 5000 seems a good option as I believe that one has a built-in phono stage?  Beomaster 5000 will often come up for under £100 on eBay too.

Beomaster 5000 wil not work as it is not datalink86 compatible for connection to the 1611 converter. Beomaster 5500 should work, but I remember reading that some of the early versions did not have a software to be compatible.

CharlieWednesday wrote:

Beogram 3000 connects to phono input of a Beomaster (5000, ideally) Beocenter 5000 set up as a link room Beocenter 5000 connects to 1611 via Aux Link (would the 1614 not work instead, since the BS4 can work as the audio master?) 1611 connected to BS4 via Masterlink Would that allow me to operate the Beogram via Link>Phono (or Link>N.Radio)?

It has to be the Beomaster that is set up as a Master as a link room can not serve its sources to other rooms. Also the older Beomasters/Beocenters can not be setup as link rooms.

CharlieWednesday wrote:

I do currently have link room speakers connected to my BS4 though – a BL3500, and the Beolink Passive, with a pair of CX50s.  Both of these are set to opt4.  Would the above mean that my link room speakers could no longer work that way?

They would work, but only for the sources from the Beomaster that would be the new Master in the system.

 

Hope this makes sense

[Guy]

Madskp wrote:

My best suggestion would therefore be to connect the Beogram to the CD socket of the MCL2AV, connect a datalink cable from the Aux socket of the MCL2AV to the 1611 converter and let that work as a main room. Then set the BS4 up as a link room (option 5 or 6) and control the Beogram with Link + CD commands.

I am joining the discussion because I too think that the MCL2AV may be the best solution.  But rather than use a 1611 converter, couldn’t you just use the MCL2AV Aux socket to provide a Line-out (DIN pins 1 ad 4) and connect this straight to the BS4 aux inputs?  I am not sure if you can then get the BS4 to open the aux input with a phono command, but any subsequent double phono commands (to MCL2AV and BS4)  may not be a problem – does that make sense?  Maybe this could avoid having to use LINK commands.

EDIT:  I forgot that N.RADIO = PHONO, so ‘double’ IR commands may be a problem!   Might need to use LINK commands after all!

EDIT2:  I suggested something similar back here, but then suggested taking output from the (volume controlled)  MCL2AV Powerlink sockets.  My older post does however remind me that it’s only the datalink signal that is required from MCL2AV to Beogram.  The Beogram’s audio output (pins 3 and 5) could be connected direct to the BS4, via a phono stage. A suitably wired adaptor should work.

[CharlieWednesday]

Ah this has become very interesting.

Note that my MCL2AV does not have an Aux socket, it has a TV socket instead.

So anyway – I experimented.  I plugged my Beogram 8500 into the CD input of the MCL2AV.  I cannot remember which mode the MCL2AV is set to, but it does respond to CD commands on my Beo4 – CD causes it to play, the back and forward buttons work, the Stop button works as the Lift command (it doesn’t stop, just pauses, but that’s close enough).  Note the MCL2AV does have an IR eye connected (the old rectangular type).

So, I then tried the same but connecting the Beogram to the TV or Tape sockets on the MCL2AV.  As I expected that didn’t work – pressing TV or A.Mem on the Beo4 had no effect when the Beogram was plugged into those sockets.

I have a 5 PIN DIN to RCA adapter cable already (with 4 RCA plugs, intended for tape connection) so I plugged that into the Tape socket on the MCL2AV, then plugged the other end into a phono stage, which is in turn connected to the BS4’s Aux input.  I tried all 4 RCA plugs but got nothing but either silence, or hum.

Now I know this is a convoluted way of testing it as I am connecting a phono stage after the MCL2AV, but I thought I would have got something, even if very quiet?

 

[Madskp]

Guy wrote:

Madskp wrote:

My best suggestion would therefore be to connect the Beogram to the CD socket of the MCL2AV, connect a datalink cable from the Aux socket of the MCL2AV to the 1611 converter and let that work as a main room. Then set the BS4 up as a link room (option 5 or 6) and control the Beogram with Link + CD commands.

I am joining the discussion because I too think that the MCL2AV may be the best solution. But rather than use a 1611 converter, couldn’t you just use the MCL2AV Aux socket to provide a Line-out (DIN pins 1 ad 4) and connect this straight to the BS4 aux inputs? I am not sure if you can then get the BS4 to open the aux input with a phono command, but any subsequent double phono commands (to MCL2AV and BS4) may not be a problem – does that make sense? Maybe this could avoid having to use LINK commands. EDIT: I forgot that N.RADIO = PHONO, so ‘double’ IR commands may be a problem! Might need to use LINK commands after all! EDIT2: I suggested something similar back here, but then suggested taking output from the (volume controlled) MCL2AV Powerlink sockets. My older post does however remind me that it’s only the datalink signal that is required from MCL2AV to Beogram. The Beogram’s audio output (pins 3 and 5) could be connected direct to the BS4, via a phono stage. A suitably wired adaptor should work.

I had not thought about using the MCL2AV as only a control device and rerouting the sound directly to the BS4. This would of course require a IR eye connected to the MCL2AV. However the PHONO command can not be used as the MCL2AV will send that to the MCL screw terminal connection. But CD could be used. I do not remember if the MCL2AV can be set in option 4 so it only responds to Link + commands.

I can try to make a test of this scenario with my BC2

[CharlieWednesday]

Madskp wrote:

I do not remember if the MCL2AV can be set in option 4 so it only responds to Link + commands.

I don’t believe it can use option 4 – I tried to set it to option 4 but it made no difference – it does not respond to Link commands.  I found an old MCL manual online and it seems to only have 1, 2, or 0 available.

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

Madskp wrote: I do not remember if the MCL2AV can be set in option 4 so it only responds to Link + commands. I don’t believe it can use option 4 – I tried to set it to option 4 but it made no difference – it does not respond to Link commands.  I found an old MCL manual online and it seems to only have 1, 2, or 0 available.

Actually that makes sense since in the intended use of the MCL2AV where it is connected to a Beomaster/Beocenter with MCL cable a Link + CD command will be sent to the Beomaster down the MCL chain if a local CD player is connected to the MCL2AV.

However the MCL handbook has this example where option 4 can be used with for example X-tra active speaker, which is a kit that contains the MCL2AV and an IR eye, but probably the newer version of the MCL2AV with a newer software version.

If I have time for it I can try to make a test with both the older and the newer MCL2AV in the weekend to see if option 4 works on any of them.

[CharlieWednesday]

The label on the back of my MCL2AV is badly damaged but I think it says type 2032. The software version is unreadable, except I can see it ends in 3.

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

The label on the back of my MCL2AV is badly damaged but I think it says type 2032. The software version is unreadable, except I can see it ends in 3.

It’s very likely a SW 2.3 then. On the older version of the MCL2AV (type 2020) the AUX socket is called AUX and on the newer models it’s called TV I can see when I looked on some of my different MCL2AV’s. So to sum up yours is one of the newer models.

I have now tried with both a type 2026 (X-tra active speaker kit) and 2031 (X-tra TV kit, Type 2032 is the UK version of this ) and I can set both to option 4 where they will respond to and activate a connected Beogram CD with the use of Link + CD command. So Weird  that yours does not respond to the Link + CD commands.

I think the only reason the MCL handbook not mentions the  X-tra TV kit is because it is dependent of a connected TV’s IR eye, and not all TV models of the time might have had the possibility to set the to option 4.

And now for the possible scenarios. I did some testing with my BC2 to simulate your BS4.

If the BS4 is as master option 1 or 2 it will not respond to Link + CD commands which means that in order to get an input to the AUX connection you will have to first send an AUX command to activate the AUX input of the BS4 and the Link + CD to activate the Beogram.

If you instead as suggested earlier setup the BS 4 as a Link room in option 5 or 6 and connect it via Masterlink to 1611 and the via datalink to MCL2AV in option 2, the you can press Link + CD to activate the Beogram from the BS4. But again you will loose the ability to share the BS4 sources to the BL3500 and BL Passive.

A

 

[CharlieWednesday]

Yes, it’s odd that my MCL2AV will not use option 4, since as I had already assumed (because it has a TV plug) that it is a later one.

It’s a shame that the Beogram won’t respond when plugged into the Tape or TV plugs of the MCL2AV – it will only respond to CD commands when plugged into the CD socket of the MCL2AV (but of course, because my BS4 is in option 1, that responds too, and the CD player also starts playing!).

I’m guessing therefore that the signals for Beogram CD are the same as those for Beogram, but not the same as those used for TV or Tape – I also tried plugging my BG8500 into both the TV and Tape sockets on the MCL2AV, but then none of the Beo4 buttons (TV, DVD, V.Mem, DTV, or A.Mem) resulted in any response from the turntable.

I wouldn’t want to set my BS4 as a link room as I do use link room speakers with it, and they are an essential part of my setup.

This has all been very interesting, but it seems there is no solution without compromise.  I only hope boffins somewhere (such as those at Hall Audio) will build something!  Think of all the people with Beosound 4 and 5, and later NL products, who’d like to control their connected Beograms with remote control?  I know I won’t be the only one!

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

I’m guessing therefore that the signals for Beogram CD are the same as those for Beogram, but not the same as those used for TV or Tape – I also tried plugging my BG8500 into both the TV and Tape sockets on the MCL2AV, but then none of the Beo4 buttons (TV, DVD, V.Mem, DTV, or A.Mem) resulted in any response from the turntable

That is correct. Datalink 80 codes for CD and Phono are if not the same at least compatible, whereas those for tape are only for tape. The TV connector use Datalink 86 which is why it can also communicate with the AAL connector on the 1611 converter.

CharlieWednesday wrote:

This has all been very interesting, but it seems there is no solution without compromise.  I only hope boffins somewhere (such as those at Hall Audio) will build something!  Think of all the people with Beosound 4 and 5, and later NL products, who’d like to control their connected Beograms with remote control?  I know I won’t be the only one!

Yes it’s a pity that there is not a good solution for this yet, but hopefully Hall Audio can spot a market for it with their new product line.

[Madskp]

Just a thought to this with respect for your current choice of the BS4 as the audio master in the system.

The BS Ouverture has both Masterlink and datalink with the ability to control a Beogram in it, so that can be an alternative solution as an audiomaster with teh capability that you want. The Ouverture do however not have DAB and SD card like the BS4.

[CharlieWednesday]

I have considered that option in fact and they do come up at a decent price on eBay sometimes, and they are certainly very mice to look at.  I would probably go for a 3000 or 3200, without the tape deck.

I do listen to DAB a fair bit but that’s not a deal breaker as I could always stream those stations instead.

My understanding is that the various models in this range – none of them have a built-in phono stage, am I right?

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

I have considered that option in fact and they do come up at a decent price on eBay sometimes, and they are certainly very mice to look at.  I would probably go for a 3000 or 3200, without the tape deck.

The 3000 and 3200 does not have datalink, so no control of Beogram. BC2300 could be an option if you do not want the tapedeck, but i does not have Masterlink built in so you will need the 1611 converter to connect it to Masterlink

CharlieWednesday wrote:

My understanding is that the various models in this range – none of them have a built-in phono stage, am I right?

Correct, none of the models have built in RIAA

[Guy]

If it makes life easier you could always retro-fit an RIAA amplifier inside your BG8500.  This has the added advantage that you can increase the cable length between the Beogram and the audiomaster because the signal level is higher.

Look half way down this page for the ‘RIAA modul for Beogram, type 59xx’: https://claudius-elektronik.dk/designs-og-l-sninger.html

[CharlieWednesday]

Yes I’ve considered that, but I don’t trust myself with a soldering iron (I tried to fix the mute relay on an Beocenter 9000 recently and it did not go well for me!).  It’s actually my Beogram 3000 I would intend to use in this room, but I see they do a version suitable for that model too.

On that page, they give two prices for each, the second one being higher, but Google Translate is failing to translate that bit.  Don’t suppose you happen to know what the higher price is for?

[Madskp]

CharlieWednesday wrote:

On that page, they give two prices for each, the second one being higher, but Google Translate is failing to translate that bit.  Don’t suppose you happen to know what the higher price is for?

The higher price is including mounting

[Author]

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