[Giorgione]

Glitch wrote:

Dillen wrote:

Would the main problem be reflections of the sound produced by the needle playing the record, or acoustic feedback from the speakers to the record?

I think their proposition is that the sound waves are driving the turntable chassis, which in turn makes its way into the cartridge. I could be misinterpreting this.

I think the Pro-Ject test is clear. Here’s the link again for the convenience of those willing to read it before commenting and speculating:
https://pro-jectusa.com/2024/03/22/should-i-play-records-with-the-dust-cover-down/

Two things regaring these measurements I’ve noticed:
Primary E turntable w/ Ortofon OM 5E moving magnet cartridge -> This turntable seems discontinued, no gear with hinged lids in the Pro-Ject portfolio left, from the cheapest up to the “high end” gear. BTW: The more they cost, the uglier they are, IMHO
Floorstanding speaker pair distanced 1m (3.28 ft) from the turntable -> this sounds rather unspecific to me. I mean, where and how exactly are they positioned? This seems a crucial detail to me. Also, why did they measure only frequencies and not the intensity?

Temperature is important for many reasons, most gear and people prefer warmth, me included 🙂

Cheers

[Giorgione]

Thanks for the instruction but I neither have an external phono pre-amp nor a multimeter. The physical principle according to the project test seems to clearly indicate that there is an effect and I don’t see any commercial reason faking something here. Maybe a say 4002 will make a difference due to its construction? I will listen to a full record first with closed and then without lid, so there will be a target onject A/B but target group A only – me! Maybe I will repeat the test with other record the upcoming days and eventually stick with whichever versions sounds better to me, and to me only 🙂  I never cared about figures much, only wondering whether somebody in the community came along this question in the past. Seemingly not really.

[Giorgione]

Glitch wrote:

It seems like a significant amount of the engineering innovation was a result of overcoming the compromises dictated by the styling. This seems most evident in the speakers made between the 1980’s and 2010’s.

That’s what most people, let alone the audio-files think and gifted the world with such hilarious B&o folks stereotypes personificated by the yuppie neighbours as seen in “National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation”, ouch! I had Pentas, always thought these pipes and towers were’t really great, the “Sausalitos” were fine, even the BL3 for restricted spaces. But all these powered speakers were lacking something I found again in passive gear.

Giorgione wrote:

I’d like to hear opinions/findings/speculation/test results about these alleged disturbing resonances transmitted via the lid

Have you considered duplicating the pro-jectusa test? This seems like an easy test to setup. You would also have the benefits of testing at the listening levels that you normally use along with your exact equipment location and room acoustics. I don’t put much merit in other people’s “listening tests”. There are too many possible variables that make any results meaningless. Glitch

Easy to setup? How? I don’t think I have the gear to do that – only the ear, ha ha. I don’t pretend my test to be objective but if it sounds better to me either wa it’s still meaningful, to me at least. I also think that most parameters remain the same, whether doing a hearing as well as an instrumental test, the only variable being the lid.

[Giorgione]

I know, a nice old-school spot can help to keep the right temperature too 🙂 But again, I’d like to hear opinions/findings/speculation/test results about these alleged disturbing resonances transmitted via the lid. Maybe there’s some ex B&O employee in the forum who remembers having had such discussions, back when he was very, very young? Maybe hinged lids are less affected or not affected at all, maybe it’s just some more audio-file BS and a good, heavy lid shields against these waves? I have no clue. Anyway, I think the question is justified. One of these days I’ll make a hearing test and post my very subjective findings. As said, digital is superior on paper too, but not so for my ears.

[Giorgione]

etype76 wrote:

beautiful shot of your BM8000 and BG8000. Unapologetically 80s.

Thanks! I actually made an early transition to fully digital in the 80’s and already back to partially analog in the early 90’s because of the horrificly “remastered” early CD’s. Luckily never got rid of my LP’s, so I still had a comparison.  Now fully analog, at least regarding my serious listening habits. Switched my BL9 against MC102.2 (.2 because of the binding posts ;-))

Hard to try the BG8002 without lid, will test the BG4002.

[Giorgione]

Yes, I came across it, also actually posted it already 🙂

Like Glitch, I’m missing the loudness level as this seems crucial to me. Anyway, I’m not wondering about the lid up / lid closed difference (if down is bad, up is even worse, following the same logic), but about lid closed or off. According to Pro-ject it’s off = good, on = bad and up = worse.

We can also leave the whole cable alchemy discussion to the “audio files” (like that neologism) although there might be a difference between signal transportation for active and passive speakers, I just dig fat nicely braided cables for optical reasons. IMHO, the stereotypical B&o customer nowadays, I’m afraid, is primarily wealthy, his audio gear just part of the furniture selected by the interior designer. Guys spending their time in forums like this one are no longer the target audience but mostly old gear owners, a rare breed in extinction. B&o never was cheap stuff, rightly so, rather middle/upper class, but today they don’t match neither much my taste, nor my budget. They should have kept a high quality analog, down-to-earth line in their portfolio including a record deck < € 10 k! 😉

The slant design theory is also interesting, I always thought it was just due to the Zeitgeist…

[Giorgione]

Ha, ha, sure, it gives me goosebumps with or without hood just by looking at it! My furniture is anechoic and because of my fabulously furry body, I’m a nude listener. You are also right in not taking audio too seriously, unlike other forums. But I’m still interested to know whether these sound waves hit the pickup having an impact on the sound quality or not and I was hoping to get some experts’ opinion. I can hardly believe this topic never popped up in the B&O community.

[Giorgione]

I get your point, have two dogs too but the odds are low to get their hair on a spinning record 🙂 Clothes are normally the biggest hair-traps. Dust is worse for the vinyl and more widespread, I think.

[Giorgione]

Yes, I did, but accidentally, as the tonearm cover scrubbed slightly against the inside of the aluminum made lower section of the lid.  I felt I noticed a difference and therefore did some internet research. I was rather surprised but it looks like for the overwhelming part of  the audiophile crowd, record listening with the hood on is sacrilege. I will give it another try tomorrow, I don’t follow the (acoustic-) science anyway, but my ears. A nice hinged lid is a cost factor so that’s probably also an understandable reason for omitting it.

[Giorgione]

Hey Matador,

Well, that’s a very beophile answer! I live in a wooden house, but indeed, each “obstacle” in the room has an effect on the sound, but these audiophiles were mainly referring to the effect on the pickup, I believe. See: https://pro-jectusa.com/2024/03/22/should-i-play-records-with-the-dust-cover-down/

B&o lids are an integral part of the design and – to my knowledge – mostly hinged and as such not meant to be removed for listening. I think, Jensen und co. did their research too… The 400x series also look nice without lid, though!

Best

[Giorgione]

Now, that’s good to know, thanks again MM! I was wondering why these tiny holes seemed threaded.

[Giorgione]

Yes, I can. But no sound when plugged into the CD socket.

[Giorgione]

Hey you friendly folks, Millesmissen was right, the two “upper” pins are missing. Clipped out, it seems, I can see the holes left. So I guess it’s only a minor operation.

[Giorgione]

When I plugged the BG7000 into the phono socket of the BM5500 I could immediately hear that there was something wrong (two RIAA amps) but that wasn’t the case when plugging it into the BM6500, no distortions at all. On the other hand, when I plug it into the CD socket, there’s no sound at all.

However, if I really was so unlucky to get one of these special BM6500; do you think that a skilled B&O service technician is able to build the BM6500 back to its “original” state? I’ve planned to have one of my BM7000 overhauled  anyway…

[Giorgione]

Hi and thanks for the welcome and the quick reply. I used to be a member before but had to open a new account since I probably messed up something transferring to the new page 🙂

I didn’t even check that, since I have two more BG7000/BM7000 combos that work. Do you mean that somebody could have clipped the data pins or replaced the 7 wire cable. Possible, will check this evening. But – why should anybody do that? Maybe for the use with a non-B&O amp?

CC

 

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