Home โบ Forums โบ General Discussion & Questions โบ General Discussion & Questions โบ What happened to the post: โnew 2023 productsโ
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24 August 2023 at 05:37 #48424BRONZE Member
Dear moderators,
The post has gone sometime, this morning.
Technical failure or to sensitive info?
If for a reason whatsoever a post is suspended or definitely deleted, then I would at least expect the poster will be informed. Or the content of the post will be deleted with a remark by a moderator left.
Or will the post be resurrected?
24 August 2023 at 18:04 #48425Steph
BRONZE MemberKind of weirdโฆ
25 August 2023 at 08:39 #48426GOLD MemberHi carolpa,
You have a PM.
Kind regards, Steve.
Location: The cable workshop, England
Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
My B&O Icons:25 August 2023 at 09:21 #48427GOLD MemberHi carolpa,
Sorry for the delayed reply, as I needed to make the other moderators aware of the situation.
I received a request from B&O yesterday to remove a post that contained commercially sensitive information so I had no option but to delete this immediately. Beoworld has to comply with legal requests and applicable laws. Ultimately, this site exists to promote our shared love for the B&O brand. The site moderators work closely with B&O in cases where information has been shared that was only made available to a select group of people (in this case Beta testers, who are most likely under a non-disclosure agreement with B&O).
I apologise for not being able to update the thread in the manner that you suggested, as yesterday was my daughterโs exam results day, so I was away from the computer and had to deal with the issue on my phone screen.
Freedom of speech is an important issue and any post deletion is not done lightly. However, Beoworld needs to ensure that we are not at risk of liability when privileged information is shared in public on our forum.
Thanks for your understanding with this sensitive issue.
Kind regards, Steve.
Location: The cable workshop, England
Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
My B&O Icons:25 August 2023 at 10:26 #48428NQVHNWI
FOUNDER MemberFreedom of speech is an important issue and any post deletion is not done lightly. However, Beoworld needs to ensure that we are not at risk of liability when privileged information is shared in public on our forum. Thanks for your understanding with this sensitive issue. Kind regards, Steve.
Im sorry Steve and other BW mods. B&O made a mistake (again) and should live with it. The NDA aspect does not apply because to OP had no way as a Beta tester to know if this was an open domain or not? Nor was the Beta tester notified that there was confidential information held under NDA. At the very least if B&O still insisted that this mistake be retracted from BW, they should have communicated in a way that it their clear error and the OP notified as the offending post was being withdrawn for those reasons.
The street runs both waysโฆthe errors keep coming from B&O and the pick-ups keep coming from the enthusiasts. The Enthusiasts should not feel to be in the wrong all the time. There is nothing I see wrong (and B&O should man-up to this โ and BeoWorld should make it policy) in publishing any request from B&O that they have made a commercially sensitive mistake and kindly request a take-down of a forum members post. That way it is all honest and B&O keep their commercial sensitive information and everyone recognises that.
ten cents worth. thank you
25 August 2023 at 15:17 #48429Steph
BRONZE MemberOoops!! ๐ ? ?
25 August 2023 at 17:03 #48430OlivierC
BRONZE MemberHello,
hereโs my 1 cent worth (10% of Mr10Percent post! ๐ ), based also in similar cases happened in the past.
Even if there is an NDA in place, there is no breach if the information has been already publicly disclosed, regardless if it happened intentionally or unintentionally.
e.g. if someone finds a B&O files for a patent related to a new product, or if B&O is submitting a new product to an electronic appliance authority, or if B&O has unintentionally disclosed pictures (as it happened with the Halo), or if something has been already shared in other social media.
On the flip side, I understand this is a rather small community where sometimes B&O is actively supporting the members, therefore to me it makes sense if they say โhey, please BeoWorld, do not be part of the media that it is propagating our leaksโ.
As a consequence, it makes some sense that Admins/Mods are limiting the leaks here.
On the other hand the posters have to be considered as members of this community, B&O enthusiasts hungry of information about whatโs next (I think we all are!), as far as they are not breaching the applicable laws.
To be fair in that case the NDA does not seem to be the right tool to protect sensitive commercial information.
Applying as a Beta tester for a SW release should not grant visibility to new products, regardless of any NDA thatโs been signed. There is no digital NDA that can secure the behaviour of a bunch of unknown single users around the world. B&O should use codenames, as anyone else is doing. The tester would be able to see that something new might come in the future without knowing in detail what it is. A good example of good practice is Geoff Martinโs interview where in a smirk he says he doesnโt remember the BV commercial names but only the internal project names.
Hoping this is a lesson learnt for the โdisclosing partyโ as well.
Regards.
Olivier
25 August 2023 at 17:38 #48431GOLD MemberI am with the admins โ Beoworld should avoid distributing rumour and leaks.
Also leaked pictures of coming products are mostly of minor quality and hardly reveal the porential of these new products.
Also it wonโt be long after the leaks appear before we get genuine information from B&O.
Shouldnโt it be possible to wait for that?
100% MM
Location: FlensborgโโโโDanmark25 August 2023 at 17:48 #48432GOLD MemberThanks MM,
I appreciate your response.
The people I spoke to at B&O admit that they made an error, but they corrected this as soon as it had been found. As this error was restricted to the limited access Beta programme, their hope was that this wouldnโt be leaked onwards into the public domain.
Neither I nor Beoworld are blaming anyone for sharing the information, or wanting to deny anyone their right of free speech. All we ask is that Beoworld isnโt used as the place to leak details of unreleased B&O products, regardless of the source of the information.
I hope that Beoworld members will understand that this is a B&O fan site that wants B&O to succeed, so that they can continue to make products that we will want/need to purchase long into the future.
Thanks for your understanding.
Kind regards, Steve.
Location: The cable workshop, England
Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
My B&O Icons:25 August 2023 at 17:51 #48433BRONZE MemberHi carolpa, You have a PM. Kind regards, Steve.
Hi Steve,
Thanks for clarifying.
I did already suspected yesterday that the post was put down for the reason of โsensible informationโ.
But on forehand I didnโt and still do not expect that product names and codes would/could be so business sensitive to B&o.
I would say a little buzz about new products could stimulate the appetite for B&o (products)!Thanks for taking time for the extensive explanation, where a simple one would have been sufficient.
regards
Paul25 August 2023 at 17:54 #48434GOLD MemberThanks Paul,
I appreciate your support and Iโm grateful for you taking the time to respond. Any questions, please feel free to get in touch.
Kind regards, Steve.
Location: The cable workshop, England
Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
My B&O Icons:25 August 2023 at 17:59 #48435BRONZE MemberThere is nothing I see wrong (and B&O should man-up to this โ and BeoWorld should make it policy) in publishing any request from B&O that they have made a commercially sensitive mistake and kindly request a take-down of a forum members post. That way it is all honest and B&O keep their commercial sensitive information and everyone recognises that. ten cents worth. thank you
Correct said and a request would always be understandable and acceptable this way!
25 August 2023 at 18:05 #48436BRONZE Memberยซ I would say a little buzz about new products could stimulate the appetite for B&o (products)! ยป
I could not say betterโฆ
Location: France ??25 August 2023 at 18:11 #48437BRONZE Membersorry I made a mistake, wanted to edit but clicked the quote button
25 August 2023 at 18:27 #48438Moderatorsorry I made a mistake
I think you did not.
Beoworld is a dying forum relying on the good will and personal money of founders to stay afloat.
unless you really betray some sort of legal arrangement with somebody, I donโt see this like an error.
some members are right, B&O makes us happy with good or less good products, itโs always a storm here But beside that what do we really owe to the brand ? Money? Done. Passion? Done. Loyalty? Done. I believe we can chat about rumors and leaks they are responsible for.
where were they when Beoworld was (is) suffocating, dying? What will be the next step? Donโt say evil about beolab XX? Donโt talk about recurring flaws in the app? Donโt give tips on repair because that will be our next ยซ recreation ยป?Iโve already said it: B&O should send their lawyers against compagnies that make copies and plague the market, not enthusiastic little boys that are excited by the next product and will anyway buy it the loud price.
even more. If B&O feel threatened by your original post, they must really concentrate on engineering, creativity and security matters. Because I donโt see any unbelievable revelation in that. What? Satellites for thรฉ 6000โฌ thรฉรขtre? Really? Beoworld shoul sur them because I remember we have talk again tha way before everyone else.
no you did not made a mistake. And no, as a sophomore moderator, I disagree with Allstate happened.thank you for reading. And delete if needed.
Location: Paris France26 August 2023 at 04:49 #48439BRONZE MemberI am with the admins โ Beoworld should avoid distributing rumour and leaks. Also leaked pictures of coming products are mostly of minor quality and hardly reveal the porential of these new products. Also it wonโt be long after the leaks appear before we get genuine information from B&O. Shouldnโt it be possible to wait for that? 100% MM
dear MM,
the reply reads as you already have inside info on these products. That is explaining your position/vision and somewhat harsh response.
So are you the King, the one-eyed King in the Beoworld of the blind?
A King to keep to his powers?
regards
26 August 2023 at 06:31 #48440matteventu
BRONZE MemberIโd like to clarify one fact: while an NDA is technically โagreed toโ when you enter the โofficialโ B&O beta programme hosted on Centercode (https://tester.bang-olufsen.com/welcome/), i.e. for beta firmware updates and for โ guess what โ testing in-development products, the Bang & Olufsen app beta release is in no way related to that.
To have access to the beta versions of B&O app, you just need to opt-in via the Play Store or App Store page, and thereโs absolutely nothing you need to agree to keep confidential. Anyone can do that freely.
So logic would say that either:
- B&O stops using the beta feature provided by App Store and Play Store (which assumes the beta releases donโt contain any confidential information that canโt be disclosed and openly discussed on the web), and implement a beta programme for the app via other means where before entering it youโre required to sign an NDA
OR
- B&O learns how to develop an app that doesnโt require an update of the whole app just to show the tile of a new product in the list of โproducts you can addโ, which frankly is even pathetic to just mention as the current way is literally how a 5yo would develop the app (they could add the stuff โbehind the scenesโ in the app and not add the product to the โadd productโ page, or making it appear there only after a combination of โsecret tapsโ known only by B&O employees, or very easily they could set-up the new โin developmentโ products to appear in the โadd productโ list only for specific B&O user accounts that have been previously whitelisted after signing an NDA, etc, thereโs thousands of ways to implement that in a way that makes sense and without repeatedly committing the same stupid mistakes)
To be clear, Iโm saying this in regards to the โstuff is under NDAโ comments above. No, itโs not under any NDA ๐
On a separate note, I wonโt comment B&Oโs ridiculous attitude of reaching out to a tiny forum which basically makes up 90% of their actual brand enthusiasts, requesting to delete a thread because of โconfidentialโ information (that confidential is no longer, once theyโve made the mistake of making it public via a public beta programme).
Oh, and to be clear, โconfidential informationโ = literally just the names โBeo*** Xโ (I wonโt put the actual number, so it remains confidential ?), XX-XX and XX-XX for other two products, and XXXXX XXX for a fourth one.
Itโs not like their competitors can get anything useful out of the product names.
Competitor worker A: โOh, you know, B&O is now developing a new set of [insert product category B&O operates in]โ
Colleague of A: โNo shit?โ
The only actual thing that happens following their kind request to delete that kind of โconfidential informationโ, is that B&O makes themselves look like complete dorks.
Hope the tone doesnโt offend anyone.
27 August 2023 at 17:46 #48441BRONZE MemberThanks to all who have replied to this thread, and certainly no offence has been taken by myself at least.
First and foremost, the Mod Team must support each other โ and in this instance Iโm inclined to leave the post deleted. I have a difference of opinion here, that said. Here are my thoughts.
Did it contain vital information which could ruin a product release? In my opinion, No.
Did it offer competitors an advantage? In my opinion, No.. And in fairness I donโt actually think competitors are that far behind they need half-snippets of information to base their future product lines onโฆ
Bang & Olufsen have, on countless occasions, been utterly useless at keeping sensitive information under wraps. Why this is I have no idea, and surely they can at least look at companies who can do this and learn something..
One point Iโd like to make : Is BeoWorld โcloseโ to Bang & Olufsen as a company right now? Well, aside from Geoff Martin (a legend, an enthusiast, and a genuinely decent human being) and a reply to a โHelloโ email from Jette Nygaard (who organised our B&O Trips โ another genuinely lovely and hard working person at B&O) I have heard absolutely nothing of any substance from B&O for some years now.
As far as a legal perspective, Iโm pretty sure we are not legally responsible for โleakedโ information by a third party. If this happens, then of course we can look at it โ but unless itโs going to destroy a new product, a new genre of product, or completely ruin a product launch, then to be honest Iโm going to be inclined to let it roll.
I genuinely wish B&O well but having been involved with the products for a living on a daily basis for the last 20+ years, I have seen a decline based on hubris and stupid decisions which has cost me my business and my future pension. I had a great business, great staff, and a great future. All of this evaporated, as did the livelihoods of many other B&O Dealers who genuinely loved the brand and all it stood for.
An American term I think is appropriate would be saying Iโm โbutt hurtโ by the way the brand has declined, and I really do need to be more positive in my frame of mind. Thatโs my own problem, though. Iโll get over it.
Thank you again to everyone on here. There are some genuinely decent people around, and I feel fortunate to know them through BeoWorld. I wish you all the best, and will keep my fingers crossed for B&O going forwards.
Lee
Location: Eastbourne England -
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