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Home โ€บ Forums โ€บ General Discussion & Questions โ€บ General Discussion & Questions โ€บ What happened to the post: โ€œnew 2023 productsโ€

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #48424
    Carolpa
    BRONZE Member

    Dear moderators,

    The post has gone sometime, this morning.

    Technical failure or to sensitive info?

    If for a reason whatsoever a post is suspended or definitely deleted, then I would at least expect the poster will be informed. Or the content of the post will be deleted with a remark by a moderator left.

    Or will the post be resurrected?

     

    #48425
    Steph
    BRONZE Member

    Kind of weirdโ€ฆ

    #48426

    Hi carolpa,

    You have a PM.

    Kind regards, Steve.

    Location: The cable workshop, England
    Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
    Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
    My B&O Icons: No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available
    #48427

    Hi carolpa,

    Sorry for the delayed reply, as I needed to make the other moderators aware of the situation.

    I received a request from B&O yesterday to remove a post that contained commercially sensitive information so I had no option but to delete this immediately.  Beoworld has to comply with legal requests and applicable laws.  Ultimately, this site exists to promote our shared love for the B&O brand.  The site moderators work closely with B&O in cases where information has been shared that was only made available to a select group of people (in this case Beta testers, who are most likely under a non-disclosure agreement with B&O).

    I apologise for not being able to update the thread in the manner that you suggested, as yesterday was my daughterโ€™s exam results day, so I was away from the computer and had to deal with the issue on my phone screen.

    Freedom of speech is an important issue and any post deletion is not done lightly.  However, Beoworld needs to ensure that we are not at risk of liability when privileged information is shared in public on our forum.

    Thanks for your understanding with this sensitive issue.

    Kind regards, Steve.

    Location: The cable workshop, England
    Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
    Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
    My B&O Icons: No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available
    #48428
    NQVHNWI
    FOUNDER Member

    Freedom of speech is an important issue and any post deletion is not done lightly. However, Beoworld needs to ensure that we are not at risk of liability when privileged information is shared in public on our forum. Thanks for your understanding with this sensitive issue. Kind regards, Steve.

    Im sorry Steve and other BW mods. B&O made a mistake (again) and should live with it. The NDA aspect does not apply because to OP had no way as a Beta tester to know if this was an open domain or not? Nor was the Beta tester notified that there was confidential information held under NDA. At the very least if B&O still insisted that this mistake be retracted from BW, they should have communicated in a way that it their clear error and the OP notified as the offending post was being withdrawn for those reasons.

    The street runs both waysโ€ฆthe errors keep coming from B&O and the pick-ups keep coming from the enthusiasts. The Enthusiasts should not feel to be in the wrong all the time.  There is nothing I see wrong (and B&O should man-up to this โ€“ and BeoWorld should make it policy) in publishing any request from B&O that they have made a commercially sensitive mistake and kindly request a take-down of a forum members post. That way it is all honest and B&O keep their commercial sensitive information and everyone recognises that.

    ten cents worth. thank you

    #48429
    Steph
    BRONZE Member

    Ooops!! ๐Ÿ™‚ ? ?

    #48430
    OlivierC
    BRONZE Member

    Hello,

    hereโ€™s my 1 cent worth (10% of Mr10Percent post! ๐Ÿ™‚ ), based also in similar cases happened in the past.

    Even if there is an NDA in place, there is no breach if the information has been already publicly disclosed, regardless if it happened intentionally or unintentionally.

    e.g. if someone finds a B&O files for a patent related to a new product, or if B&O is submitting a new product to an electronic appliance authority, or if B&O has unintentionally disclosed pictures (as it happened with the Halo), or if something has been already shared in other social media.

    On the flip side, I understand this is a rather small community where sometimes B&O is actively supporting the members, therefore to me it makes sense if they say โ€œhey, please BeoWorld, do not be part of the media that it is propagating our leaksโ€.

    As a consequence, it makes some sense that Admins/Mods are limiting the leaks here.

    On the other hand the posters have to be considered as members of this community, B&O enthusiasts hungry of information about whatโ€™s next (I think we all are!), as far as they are not breaching the applicable laws.

    To be fair in that case the NDA does not seem to be the right tool to protect sensitive commercial information.

    Applying as a Beta tester for a SW release should not grant visibility to new products, regardless of any NDA thatโ€™s been signed. There is no digital NDA that can secure the behaviour of a bunch of unknown single users around the world. B&O should use codenames, as anyone else is doing. The tester would be able to see that something new might come in the future without knowing in detail what it is. A good example of good practice is Geoff Martinโ€™s interview where in a smirk he says he doesnโ€™t remember the BV commercial names but only the internal project names.

    Hoping this is a lesson learnt for the โ€œdisclosing partyโ€ as well.

    Regards.

    Olivier

    #48431
    Millemis
    GOLD Member

    I am with the admins โ€“ Beoworld should avoid distributing rumour and leaks.

    Also leaked pictures of coming products are mostly of minor quality and hardly reveal the porential of these new products.

    Also it wonโ€™t be long after the leaks appear before we get genuine information from B&O.

    Shouldnโ€™t it be possible to wait for that?

    100% MM

    Location: Flensborgโ€”โ€”โ€”โ€”Danmark
    #48432

    Thanks MM,

    I appreciate your response.

    The people I spoke to at B&O admit that they made an error, but they corrected this as soon as it had been found.  As this error was restricted to the limited access Beta programme, their hope was that this wouldnโ€™t be leaked onwards into the public domain.

    Neither I nor Beoworld are blaming anyone for sharing the information, or wanting to deny anyone their right of free speech.  All we ask is that Beoworld isnโ€™t used as the place to leak details of unreleased B&O products, regardless of the source of the information.

    I hope that Beoworld members will understand that this is a B&O fan site that wants B&O to succeed, so that they can continue to make products that we will want/need to purchase long into the future.

    Thanks for your understanding.

    Kind regards, Steve.

    Location: The cable workshop, England
    Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
    Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
    My B&O Icons: No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available
    #48433
    Carolpa
    BRONZE Member

    Hi carolpa, You have a PM. Kind regards, Steve.

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for clarifying.
    I did already suspected yesterday that the post was put down for the reason of โ€œsensible informationโ€.
    But on forehand I didnโ€™t and still do not expect that product names and codes would/could be so business sensitive to B&o.
    I would say a little buzz about new products could stimulate the appetite for B&o (products)!

    Thanks for taking time for the extensive explanation, where a simple one would have been sufficient.

    regards
    Paul

     

    #48434

    Thanks Paul,

    I appreciate your support and Iโ€™m grateful for you taking the time to respond.  Any questions, please feel free to get in touch.

    Kind regards, Steve.

    Location: The cable workshop, England
    Favourite Product: Beosystem 72-23
    Signature: Cables, friendly advice and great ideas for connecting Bang & Olufsen! Ask any questions at https://soundsheavenly.com to get the best from your B&O! Please visit my B&O YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
    My B&O Icons: No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available No description available No description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description availableNo description available
    #48435
    Carolpa
    BRONZE Member

    There is nothing I see wrong (and B&O should man-up to this โ€“ and BeoWorld should make it policy) in publishing any request from B&O that they have made a commercially sensitive mistake and kindly request a take-down of a forum members post. That way it is all honest and B&O keep their commercial sensitive information and everyone recognises that. ten cents worth. thank you

    Correct said and a request would always be understandable and acceptable this way!

    #48436
    Yossi
    BRONZE Member

    ยซ I would say a little buzz about new products could stimulate the appetite for B&o (products)! ยป

    I could not say betterโ€ฆ

    Location: France ??
    #48437
    Carolpa
    BRONZE Member

    sorry I made a mistake, wanted to edit but clicked the quote button

    #48438
    matador
    Moderator

    sorry I made a mistake

    I think you did not.
    Beoworld is a dying forum relying on the good will and personal money of founders to stay afloat.
    unless you really betray some sort of legal arrangement with somebody, I donโ€™t see this like an error.
    some members are right, B&O makes us happy with good or less good products, itโ€™s always a storm here   But beside that what do we really owe to the brand ? Money? Done. Passion? Done. Loyalty? Done. I believe we can chat about rumors and leaks they are responsible for.
    where were they when Beoworld was (is) suffocating, dying? What will be the next step? Donโ€™t say evil about beolab XX? Donโ€™t talk about recurring flaws in the app? Donโ€™t give tips on repair because that will be our next ยซ recreation ยป?

    Iโ€™ve already said it: B&O should send their lawyers against compagnies that make copies and plague the market, not enthusiastic little boys that are excited by the next product and will anyway buy it the loud price.
    even more. If B&O feel threatened by your original post, they must really concentrate on engineering, creativity and security matters. Because I donโ€™t see any unbelievable revelation in that. What? Satellites for thรฉ 6000โ‚ฌ thรฉรขtre? Really? Beoworld shoul sur them because I remember we have talk again tha way before everyone else.
    no you did not made a mistake. And no, as a sophomore moderator, I disagree with Allstate happened.

    thank you for reading. And delete if needed.

    Location: Paris France
    #48439
    Carolpa
    BRONZE Member

    I am with the admins โ€“ Beoworld should avoid distributing rumour and leaks. Also leaked pictures of coming products are mostly of minor quality and hardly reveal the porential of these new products. Also it wonโ€™t be long after the leaks appear before we get genuine information from B&O. Shouldnโ€™t it be possible to wait for that? 100% MM

    dear MM,

    the reply reads as you already have inside info on these products. That is explaining  your position/vision and  somewhat harsh response.

    So are you the King, the one-eyed King in the Beoworld of the blind?

    A King to keep to his powers?

    regards

     

    #48440
    matteventu
    BRONZE Member

    Iโ€™d like to clarify one fact: while an NDA is technically โ€œagreed toโ€ when you enter the โ€œofficialโ€ B&O beta programme hosted on Centercode (https://tester.bang-olufsen.com/welcome/), i.e. for beta firmware updates and for โ€” guess what โ€” testing in-development products, the Bang & Olufsen app beta release is in no way related to that.

    To have access to the beta versions of B&O app, you just need to opt-in via the Play Store or App Store page, and thereโ€™s absolutely nothing you need to agree to keep confidential. Anyone can do that freely.

    So logic would say that either:

    • B&O stops using the beta feature provided by App Store and Play Store (which assumes the beta releases donโ€™t contain any confidential information that canโ€™t be disclosed and openly discussed on the web), and implement a beta programme for the app via other means where before entering it youโ€™re required to sign an NDA

    OR

    • B&O learns how to develop an app that doesnโ€™t require an update of the whole app just to show the tile of a new product in the list of โ€œproducts you can addโ€, which frankly is even pathetic to just mention as the current way is literally how a 5yo would develop the app (they could add the stuff โ€œbehind the scenesโ€ in the app and not add the product to the โ€œadd productโ€ page, or making it appear there only after a combination of โ€œsecret tapsโ€ known only by B&O employees, or very easily they could set-up the new โ€œin developmentโ€ products to appear in the โ€œadd productโ€ list only for specific B&O user accounts that have been previously whitelisted after signing an NDA, etc, thereโ€™s thousands of ways to implement that in a way that makes sense and without repeatedly committing the same stupid mistakes)

    To be clear, Iโ€™m saying this in regards to the โ€œstuff is under NDAโ€ comments above. No, itโ€™s not under any NDA ๐Ÿ™‚

     

    On a separate note, I wonโ€™t comment B&Oโ€™s ridiculous attitude of reaching out to a tiny forum which basically makes up 90% of their actual brand enthusiasts, requesting to delete a thread because of โ€œconfidentialโ€ information (that confidential is no longer, once theyโ€™ve made the mistake of making it public via a public beta programme).

    Oh, and to be clear, โ€œconfidential informationโ€ = literally just the names โ€œBeo*** Xโ€ (I wonโ€™t put the actual number, so it remains confidential ?), XX-XX and XX-XX for other two products, and XXXXX XXX for a fourth one.

    Itโ€™s not like their competitors can get anything useful out of the product names.

    Competitor worker A: โ€œOh, you know, B&O is now developing a new set of [insert product category B&O operates in]โ€

    Colleague of A: โ€œNo shit?โ€

    The only actual thing that happens following their kind request to delete that kind of โ€œconfidential informationโ€, is that B&O makes themselves look like complete dorks.

     

    Hope the tone doesnโ€™t offend anyone.

    #48441
    9_LEE
    BRONZE Member

    Thanks to all who have replied to this thread, and certainly no offence has been taken by myself at least.

    First and foremost, the Mod Team must support each other โ€“ and in this instance Iโ€™m inclined to leave the post deleted.  I have a difference of opinion here, that said. Here are my thoughts.

    Did it contain vital information which could ruin a product release? In my opinion, No.

    Did it offer competitors an advantage? In my opinion, No.. And in fairness I donโ€™t actually think competitors are that far behind they need half-snippets of information to base their future product lines onโ€ฆ

    Bang & Olufsen have, on countless occasions, been utterly useless at keeping sensitive information under wraps. Why this is I have no idea, and surely they can at least look at companies who can do this and learn something..

    One point Iโ€™d like to make : Is BeoWorld โ€˜closeโ€™ to Bang & Olufsen as a company right now? Well, aside from Geoff Martin (a legend, an enthusiast, and a genuinely decent human being) and a reply to a โ€˜Helloโ€™ email from Jette Nygaard (who organised our B&O Trips โ€“ another genuinely lovely and hard working person at B&O) I have heard absolutely nothing of any substance from B&O for some years now.

    As far as a legal perspective, Iโ€™m pretty sure we are not legally responsible for โ€˜leakedโ€™ information by a third party. If this happens, then of course we can look at it โ€“ but unless itโ€™s going to destroy a new product, a new genre of product, or completely ruin a product launch, then to be honest Iโ€™m going to be inclined to let it roll.

    I genuinely wish B&O well but having been involved with the products for a living on a daily basis for the last 20+ years, I have seen a decline based on hubris and stupid decisions which has cost me my business and my future pension. I had a great business, great staff, and a great future. All of this evaporated, as did the livelihoods of many other B&O Dealers who genuinely loved the brand and all it stood for.

    An American term I think is appropriate would be saying Iโ€™m โ€˜butt hurtโ€™ by the way the brand has declined, and I really do need to be more positive in my frame of mind. Thatโ€™s my own problem, though. Iโ€™ll get over it.

    Thank you again to everyone on here. There are some genuinely decent people around, and I feel fortunate to know them through BeoWorld.  I wish you all the best, and will keep my fingers crossed for B&O going forwards.

    Lee

    Location: Eastbourne England
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