Beosound Theatre – The quest for rear speakers

[appeardk]

Okay, thats a very good input – then it’s back to plan B. Let the BL3 run on a Receiver 🙂 Or run an additional PL cable from BST, problem with that is that I cant run it under the floor.

[NQVHNWI]

Mr10Percent wrote:

Ok, thanks, My 2 cents here.

1. Set the Theatre, BL5s and BL3s optimally for the Theatre.

2. Daisy-Chain the PLs BST >> BL5 >> BL5

3. Daisy-chain PLs BST >> BL3 Splitter >> BL3s

4. Connect Core to BST (not sure how this is done)

5. Daisy-chain Core coax >> BL5 >> BL5.

You will need to make a listening position for the BL5s stereo only and maybe configure the BR1. The music signal will be digital to the BL5s from the Core and the BST should control volume signal via PL? Thats how I imagine it. Obviously, I can’t test but hope it helps?

Im still seeing comments about relaying PL from BL5 to BL3?? You only have two channels on BL5 – Left and Right. Daisy-chaining the PL to BL5 is OK ,followed by channel selection. The BL3’s need to be coming from the Theatre from another second PL outlet.

This is what I had in mind with my comment above. (also to add, you will need a TOSLink to Coax converter to take the SPDif signal from optical to electrical – which the BL5 accepts.

 

 

 

[appeardk]

Thank you VERY much Mr10Percent. Thanks for really drawing up the plan here.

I think your suggestion looks perfect, but I am unsure about two things.

What is the Grey network betweeen the Core and the Theatre? Is that a regular network cable or do you just mean they are on the same network?

What I dont understand with suggestion is:

1) To get Coax output I need to feed the sound to the Core as that is the only one coax-connected to the BL5. That is OK, but there is no PL connection from the Core to the BL5’s so is it correct that with your suggestion the “Network” parts manages that if I turn the volume up or down the Core will somehow send that PL signal to the Theatre (that will pass it on the to BL)? To me that sounds very impressive if that is possible, even with the Theatre on stand-by.

If that is not possible I just dont see how auto-power on/off or volume control will work via the Core in your setup.

Can you explain it to a 5 year old? Sorry but I would love for your suggestion to work in my setup.

—

BTW I tried “my own” suggestion with a Alamando Switch. It actually works, but there is some buzzing on the BL5’s that just annoys me. Not sure what it is, I tried writing them. But it did what I hoped. I was able to play via the Core (via Coax) and from the Theatre (via PL) and switch between those two units. BUT with a electric buzzing. I cant understand why this happens, I am using the Almando switch exactly how it’s documented to be used – two different sources, one output. All cables are new (MK2) and correctly fitted.

So unless your suggestion with making the Core and Theatre communicate via Network I have to decide between

A – Keeping the Core where I can listen to Coax-quality + The core allows me to connect my Mac mini with a digital input where I can feed high quality Roon music.

B – Moving the BL5s to the Theatre and having a completely hassle free setup, no noises – just works. Sounds just fine. But no coax connection and I need to see if I can use the USB-C to Line-in converter.

[NQVHNWI]

Hello appeardk,

The grey line is the network line. I assume both your Theatre and core are connected? wifi may also be an option but wiring from the TV to the core I think would be a good thing as a minimum.

The core will be feed music via the network

The core will output via the TOSLINK digitial output (laser light, in stereo thru one terminal)

You will need to buy a TOS to CoAX converter. These are inexpensive.

The BL5s usually come with 2 x 5m CoAx 75ohn cables. If not, a good quality set of cables or the BL5 ones from your dealer will be OK. Again coax is digital and carries both L/R signals. You can daisy-chain the coax in/out from one BL5 to another

The BL5 have L/R switches. This configures the channels. The PL will carry ( this I assume from experience of old ML products) volume control. The coax, music signal. I am not 100% certain if BeoApp products work in the same way?

In this configuration, your Theatre works optimally for surround sound, and the core can side-stream to get the best out of the almondo.

The reason the Almando hums is probably because it is not 100% B&O compatible and has a ground loop caused by poor component shielded on the PL side.  I have posted comments that I believe the Theatre needs good (B&O standard) PLs – otherwise there may be a risk of small hum??

10

 

[appeardk]

Hi 10!

The Core and Theatre are not yet connected with a cable. I was not sure what purpose it would serve, is it just to get them both online, or would the two “see” each other when cabled? They are on the same Wifi and joined via the Bang & Olufsen app, but they are not otherwise connected. The Theatre speaker-configuration cannot see the Core. Would that happen if I network-cable-connected them? The Theatre app only looks for PL, Wisa or 3rd party.

I already have the Core and BL5s connected via Toslink to CoAX adapter. That is the setup I used for the previous year. Very high quality Coax cables – works perfectly. And I have another adaptor for digital-in from a mac mini. The BL is also set up for L/R.

But I still havent figured this part out:

Let’s say the theatre is on stand-by, I start an Stream on the Core (input from Roon via Digital in). This now needs to turn on the BL5 speakers. Today that happens because I have PL going from the Core to the BL5. However with your setup the Core is only connected to the BL5 via Coax. As you know coax cant carry the data. So my question is: how does the Theatre know when turn on the speakers? Will the network cable between them allow the Core to tell the Theatre to turn on the BL5s. To me that sounds very excotic, particularly because there are no settings in the Theatre to configure the Core. And vice versa there are no settings on the Core to “Connect” to the Theatre, I can only choose speaker system (BL5).

—

I wrote Almondo and detailed my problem. I will update here if they manage to resolve it.

For now I have just connected the BL5s directly to the Theatre as that solves everything (once I have a USB-C to Line-in so I can hook up the Mac mini). I did some A/B testing with Coax vs. PL from the Theatre and I must say it’s not as bad as I feared. Maybe the PL output from the Theatre is somehow better.

[Millemissen]

appeardk wrote:

For now I have just connected the BL5s directly to the Theatre as that solves everything (once I have a USB-C to Line-in so I can hook up the Mac mini). I did some A/B testing with Coax vs. PL from the Theatre and I must say it’s not as bad as I feared. Maybe the PL output from the Theatre is somehow better.

Trying a direct connection of the 5’s to the Theatre is what I suggested a while ago – in order to find out how they then will sound.
The USB- adapter might solve your problem (if you can cope with the fact that you then will introduce some AD/DA convertion along the way).
I suppose that you’d want to connect your Mac Mini there.
So why not just use the HDMI for that?
Also the built in Chromecast Audio in the BST can function as a Roon endpoint (just for testing ?).
Furthermore you could use the built in Chromecast function of the (LG)tv this way
How cool is that ?
Only some lenghty listening tests can tell, whether you like what you hear or not!

For time being there is no way to connect a BS Core to the BST – no matter wired or wireless…….like it was with previous BV’s like the Avant/BV11 etc.
However, you can join in/expand to/from what is playing through the Core using the Bang & Olufsen app (maybe that will be solved in a future update?).

In your case you don’t really need the Core – unless you want to keep on using the Coax/PL connection to the 5’s as of now.
I am pretty sure that involving the BST there won’t work – but a test will do no harm.

The BST can ‘work magic’ with the connected speakers once set up properly (using Room Sense).

MM

[appeardk]

Hi Millemissen

First of all, you are 100% right – early on you suggested to just add the BL5s to the BLT. I  an earlier comment I also recognized this would solve all. I was not going with this because I wanted to keep the Coax between the speakers, or at least give it a proper attempt. But you are correct, the solution I have now was provided very early on.

The USB-Adaptor is not ideal, not for a Roon-type setup with very very high quality music files. I will add it just to have it.

However, Mac Mini is already connected via HDMI (as you suggest), and since writing my previous post I added the HDMI output as a source in Roon and it works and maybe, just maybe, it’s actually a cleaner solution than the TOS to COAX on the Mac mini (A – because Tos on the mini is restricted and B – the adaptor, wasnt exactly audiophile quality).

So yes, as you conclude – I dont really need the Core. Is it going on ebay tomorrow? No… I like the comfort of knowing I can go back to the Core and Coax so it will be retired to a drawer for now. I appreciate I can power off of both the Adaptor between Mini to Core (Spdif) and Core to BL (Tos to Coax). Thats three (incl. Core) less constant powerdraws.

Whats left now is:

– A bit more A /B testing between Core-Coax and BST-PL. I have to admit last night I was just very impressed with it. It really adds to the appreciation to see just how well it works with powering speakers on and off when switching listening positions. I also really like the automatic swithcing of listening positions I can set up for each source both on the TV and incoming signals like Airplay.

– See if I can return the Almando. I think I got a bad unit. I really tried everything to work around the grounding loop.

PS.  Just for the record I did end up adding the BL3 via a Reciever 1. Very impressed with how seamless that works. Also my first experience with a BL3, very happy with how they play.

PPS. Thanks for confirming Core and Theatre cannot be network-connected, I was really scrathcing my head over how that would work. I suppose you, 10Percent, assumed this because it worked with your BV / Avant.

PPPS. Very cool idea with the Chromecast display. I am concerned it might risk some OLED Burnin with the permanent UI on the display.

PPPPS. To Almandos credit the CEO responded to my support request within hours. He pointed to a ground-loop. I am not going to investigate this any further unless I end up deciding the Coax-signal is essential, and right now it’s not looking like that is the case. Also when I had the grounding loop I had a few cases of the Alamando giving off a loud bang in the speakers that scared me, so I am hesistant to connect it again. Also because even though it was a switch it wasnt the same as having it directly connected to the BST, not the same level of seamlessness. So swithcing between core and Theatre was not 100% seamless (I experienced both long delays and the audio never switching, powering off wasnt instant and somehow you just felt this extra layer confusing the very tight solution Powerlink can be when all is playing together).

[Millemissen]

Just for the record….
I guess you have set up the Core/BL5 as in this instruction (I know of no other method).

48kHz isn’t exactly what is concidered ‘audiophile quality’.

MM

[appeardk]

Right, this is what I meant when I said it wasnt exactly audiophile quality 🙂 However, I did find a solution so I use the 88.2 kHz the BL5 tops out at. The app supports that as well. Anyways, now the Core and these adaptors are in the drawer for some other time.

The HDMI connection from the Mini to the to BST is able to pass along a Lossless feed of 88.2 – 192 kHz at 24-Bit (and probably even higher).

I dont know what the DAC in the BRT is like and I know it’s now  sent to the BL5s via PL cables so none of it is very audiophile, but I have the non-B&O DACs and Tubes to play with for that. It didn’t end quite as I planned intially, but the result when playing Atmos is beyond my expectations and the BL5s actually sound good on the PL feed from the BRT, so I’ll leave it here 🙂 For now…

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