Beosound Theatre – The quest for rear speakers

[Emilos88]

Beolab 5 do not work with WiSa, don’t ask me why but it have always been the case, so you need to hardwire it.

[appeardk]

Thats very good information, thank you!

Currently I have a powerlink from Left BL5 to right BL5. Furthermore I have a Digital Coax from  Left to right. So Right is the end of the chain.

If I run a PL from Theatre to RIGHT Bl5 would it then play on both BL5s or just the one? Question being if it the BL5 would distribute the sound between both?

[Millemissen]

Basicly you can do anything, you’d want to with the speaker set up?
However, if anything is good, is another question??

You could (and should) try out what you propose, but you will have to remove the Core/Coax and run pure PL from the Theatre (daisychaining is possible).
The roles for the speakers etc is set up in the Theatre/app.
You can make as many Listening Positions as you like (and delete those again). Do remember to take time in account – and you need to take off the frontcover for connecting the microphone.

If you do not like what you hear……
……as I see it you have some other options:

1: Bite the bullet and reorganize the speakers (in the end your wife will get used to it) for a as good as possible setup = the 5’s as fronts and a set of BL17’s as rears/surrounds (these are WiSA capable).
Or as an option for this – when B&O will have sorted out the Theatre/Receiver 1 problem – a set of BL3’s.
You do not need the Core for that setup – the Theatre offers everything a Core has and more.

2: Use the 5’s and the Core as is…..for music.
Add rears/surrounds to the Theatre as described above – this alone will certainly bring a lot to the Theatre.

3: Depending on your room layout and the seating/listening position, move and set up the BL5’s (PL cable required) as surrounds for the Theatre and make an additional Listening Position/speaker group for listening to music/radio with the 5’s only.

P.S.
You will never be able to connect the 5’s via a receiver 1 – it does not work with the 5’s.

P.P.S.
Certain rumours say that there at some point will be an option of connecting the new Mozart based speakers as surrounds.
But!!! It is way to early to say anything about when and how this would work or whether you can mix with wired speakers in the front etc etc.
Just to say that there might be another option…..if you can wait long enough ?

Happy playing with the Theatre.
MM

[appeardk]

I just got my Beosound Theatre 65″ in gold with the new (I was told it was new) smoked oak front panels + a C2.

I really like it, actually surprised how well it performs as a complete package. It replaced a Beovision 14 that broke down  that, while I did still appreciate the design, was wearing me thin. It had multiple problems from day one.

Here is the quest(ions).

I’d love to get a full(er) Atmos experience. I don’t have the space for huge speakers behind the sofa, nor are my wife very supportive of the idea. .

But since my setup is a bit atypical I have a Beolab 5 that is located exactly where the rear left   would be. The other BL5 is where the front left would be.

My first questions is if I can add this as a left rear. YES, I know it wont be ideal – it’s overpowered and wont be matched with a similar speaker on the right rear.

But the speaker is there and I’d love to try it out.

The question is:

1) The BL5’s are currently connected via Coax + PL to a Core. Would I be able to connect the Core to the Theatre and select that speaker? I have read and looked in the app and it doesnt look like it.

2) This is the real question: My (left rear) BL5 has an additional PL2 input. Would I be able to buy a Beolab  Reciever 1* and plug in the beolab 5 into second powerlink input on the BL5.

Would the BL5 be clever enough to play that input? (Assuming the core is not playing anything)

3) Does anyone here have experience with adding a speaker to the Theatre using the Beolab Reciever 1?

*https://www.bang-olufsen.com/da/dk/hoejttalere/beolab-receiver-1

Sorry if this makes your brains hurt, thinking about adding a BL5 as a single rear. It’s really just a matter of it’s “that” or nothing at all and since I wont be using the Atmos for Deutche Grammofon stuff, but more likely spaceships sounds I have a theory it might work.

And yes I will add a right rear, possibly a BL3 also using a Beolab Reciever 1.

Please advice 🙂

[appeardk]

Hi Millemissen

What a brilliant and detailed reply. I did what you suggested and tried it out. Just a very crude cables across the floor proof-of-concept. Plugged in directly from PL1 on the Theatre to the BL5 added the speaker and ran a listening position. Of course it’s not balacced with no right rear, but it made a GREAT difference to the “Atmos” part and with the options in the app to either boost or reduce the Db of each inividual external speaker I feel like I should be able to work out something where a smaller speaker could fill out the void on Right Rear.

However.

When ever I have both the Powerlink from the Core and the Powerlink from the Theare connected at the same time, and even though the Core is off (and the other BL5 is Red) the sound is distorted. It happens the second the second cable is connected, if I unplug it during a sound test the distortion is instant, even to the point that volume + / – has a digital noise sound.

To explain my setup:

I have a Core that feeds digital and PL into BL5-Right  and from there both Coax-digital and PL ibto BL5-Left. So on BL5 right both the 2xCoax (in out) and both PL2 plugs are used, on the BL5-Left only Coax in and PL1 is usted, and then I add the second PL2 from the Theatre.

Can someone explain why those two interfer with each other even with the Core off (well on stand by, not unplugged)

—

Probably a stupid idea, but could I perhaps avoid the issue by adding a plug such as this:
https://www.av-connection.dk/?PNo=BO-PLSP-002B

So both Core and Theatre is on the same PL plug on BL5-Left.

—

Any other cowboy-solutions?

What I’d rather not do is cut out the Core completely because I did try running the BL5’s on Powerlink “only” and I noticed a clear degradation of sound quality over the Coax-digital connection  I have now.

I was also looking at
https://www.av-connection.dk/?PGr=13426

Maybe I could connect Core and Theatre to that and then feed one source into the BL5-Left?

One theory I have about the noise is that it’s not a MK2 cable I am using. So I ordered up new Mk2 cables to rule out that being the case. I am sceptical about it though because it sounds just perfect whenever there is only a cable between theater and BL5 – it’s the second two wires are connected the distrotion (lower volume, noisy, digital noise on volume change) happens.

[Millemissen]

You should never connect two devices/two PL cables to one speaker!!!
(I did not suggest that!)
And the splitter cable won’t change that.

In theory the Almando Switch should work.
However, if it does in your case, I can’t say.
You could try that out – I am sure you can return the switch if not.

In general I am pretty sure that the result of having two this different speakers as surrounds/rears will not be satisfying (unless you decide for yourself that it is).
Rear/surround speakers have nothing to do with Atmos (that comes from upfiring/hight channels).
The right respectively the left speaker there become their own seperate signal/channel from the source in a 5.0 speaker setup.

Honestly – I’d rethink the setup!
Please do concider if one of the 3 suggested solutions (especially 2) could be possible instead.

MM

[appeardk]

Hello again Millemissen – thank you, really appreciate your input!

Oh, I did not know that it was a completele no go to connect two PL cables to one speaker – thanks for clearing that up. I just saw two PL ports and went for it. I’m happy to report the BL5 did not take any immediate damage, as I have been using it all night 🙂

I understand the rears are not a part of the Atmos. And just to be clear, I’m very impressed with the Theater on it’s own. While recent B&O additions  to my home  as the Balance have all been good, it’s been a while since I felt like a product really justified it’s price and lived up to the anticipation I had.

While having just one rear installed I tried some out some Atmos material such as the new Eric Clapton – Lady on the Balcony blu-ray and what one single rear did for the experience seriously impressed me – I never had any surround before so I am easy to impress I suppose. I understand you are not saying rears wont help just to 1) Reorganize the living room which is really impossible, there is no way unfortunately 2) Add rears and keep the BL5 out of it. That is of course possible, but the left rear would need to be within 0,5 m Ø of the BL5 and it’s not a matter of getting the wife onboard, I dont like the idea. Also, I’m not ditching the BL5’s for something more modern 🙂

I’m very impressed with how the B&O App allows me to tune each speaker. While it cant tune a BL3 into a BL5, it could tone down the bass on the BL5 make it resemble a BL3 more, at least to my untrained ear – for hi-fidelity I will always rely on tube-amp + headphones or BL5 from core, so the sourround bit is just for fun. I hope I am somewhat right, honestly, I might be very wrong and end up with a pair of BL3, a PL Switch and a Beosound Reciever 1.

I’ll report back here on what I do, at least you can get a big old “told you so” if turns out to be very dumb.

Two final questions if you dont mind

1) You wrote:
“Or as an option for this – when B&O will have sorted out the Theatre/Receiver 1 problem – a set of BL3’s.”

Am I missing something here. Is there a general Theatre <-> Receiver 1 problem or just with the Beolab 5. The B&O retailer told me the Reciever 1 would work with the Theatre, so I assumed this was a viable path for the BL3.

2) Do you know of any way to add the Core to the Theatre in a way where I could still use Coax-digital to feed the BL5s from the Core but the Theatre would be able to see the BL5’s on the core. Wish there was a Powerlink In.

Final thought: I wonder, and this is very very hypothetical. But if the Reciever 1 was added to the Almando Powerlink switch, if that could theortically, make it work with the BL5. Or is just the the signal the Reicever 1 send that the BL5 doesnt like. Just a throught…

Thanks again for taking the time and making the effort!

[Millemissen]

The doubled PL’s that excist in many BL’s is just a switch used to daisychain the PL signal to another speaker.

 

Of course it is always a delicate matter to give advice to someone, when you do not know the details of the room and the circumstances.
Looking forward to hear how you get along.

You can read about the ‘receiver 1 issue’ in the big BST thread
here
This has been mentioned several times there.
It has to do with the fact that the BST knows the values etc of basicly all recent and previous Beolabs and can use this to calculate the filters, when you use Room Sense (with the help of the microphone).
But it can not know, what is connected to a Receiver 1.

I guess there will be a way to solve this soon.
A workaround could be the ‘good old’ white noice setting up (like with the previous BV’s), that was introduced again not long ago for the BST.
This will not work as well as the Room Sence method, but it will work.

——

I disagree with you, when you say, that ‘the surround bit is just for fun’.
Multichannel sound is a way to enhance/improve the experience of both sound from video and from music…….when done well.
And Atmos adds/can add to this experience.

Of cource you need to listen to (well made) multichannel/Atmos music content first in order to recognize this.
I must admit that taste can be pretty individual.
But IMO ignoring multichannel music is often more a result of refusing to experience new things/ways of listening (we often tend to stick with old habits).

To 2.
The only way to get around this probably is to try out the Almando Switch.
In my experience – many other BST owners agree – ones speaker setup will sound different/better when connected to the BST and properly ‘room sensed’.
I was pretty surpriced by the difference, when I changed from my old Avant 1st gen to the BST.
Did you try to set up your 5’s directly to the BST including using the Room Sense method?
Try making a listening position with only the 5’s L/R and play some 2 channel aka stereo music.

Have fun.

MM

[appeardk]

Hi again

I enjoy reading your posts.

A – Good to know regarding the Reciever 1 vs BST issue. Read the entire thread and I can see it’s an ongong issue, but that it can work but just (for now) not quite ideal. Correct?

B – Your interpretation of my view on Sourround was not what I meant 🙂 I work with a venue that has build an entire Atmos room to the highest standards (and budget) and having experienced that I am not in any way disregarding that. Not at all. I like my BL5’s on their own. I tried hooking both BL5s up to the BST and for music I like the BL5s more on their own. With very well made (regardless of ones taste) music such as Moby – Reprise (released as Atmos on Blu-ray) or Atmos music from Tidal. On that note seems like Apple Music is really moving fast on building out the Atmos library (unfortunately unlike the Tidal app that supports Atmos on the Webos LG App, Applue Music doesnt yet) . So, for me, BST will be for Movies and video-concerts.

I’m going to order up the parts now, but I have one final thought.

With the switch (that we dont know IF works) this would be my setup

 

I was just thinking if the following could be an option.

I guess not since when listning to music from the Core I dont want the BL3 to play. I guess with the Almando switch I cant add two different units AFTER the switch?

I was exploring this idea because I A) wanted to avoid the reciever 1 issues B) I already have a PL going under the floor in my livingroom that comes out behind the sofa, so if I could split this that would be very good.

 

[Millemissen]

It seems to me – from your picture(s), that you still have two PL cables going in to the BL5 – one from the Core and also one from the Theatre/the Almando Switch.

The switch is meant for connecting two devices to one set of BL’s.

Daisychaining like that from the switch to the two different speaker will be a mess, when setting up in the Theatre.
You would not need a splitter for that by the way – just go from the 5 to the 3…..if that really is what you want to.

 

If I understand the underfloor cabling right……..why not use the underfloor PL cable for a BL3.
Daisychaining that to the 3 on the right is maybe possible.

Then move the BL5 up to the right side of the BST (and connect it there with a PL cable)….if enough space in the room.
If you still want to use the Core with the 5’s, the Almando might help – although I do not know what happens, if you have the coax connection there too.

P.S.
With your experience of multichannel/Atmos you should be predestinated to have that in your home too ?
And you can make as many combinations of speakers as you need….for different purposes.

MM

[Carolpa]

What if, if it is possible, PL connect both BL5 directly (eventually chained) to the BST. Make a pre setting “stereo” and switch of all other speakers except the BS5.

Then use the BST to play your music with the “stereo” pre-set. You could NL connect a BS Core and Join the BST for stereo listening additional (but necessary ??).

[appeardk]

Regarding two PL to same BL5
So according to what you (Millemissen) are saying this would be better, right?
Two potential problems with this setup is if the BL5 no longer reads the Digital Coax, but only plays the PL signal.
The other potential problem is if the BL3 plays when I play music from the Core.

I suppose this will need to be tested, but do you agree this is worth giving a shot? if you look aside from your advice of this potentially not being very good sonically :).

 

 

PS. Moving the BL5 to the right side of the TV is not an option, but I appreciate how you keep looking for better solutions.

---

@Carolpa
Your suggestion is good, problem is if I move music to the BST the BL5 would only run on the PL wires and not the digial Coax cables I use today and the difference in sound quality is very noticable so even though that would solve all my problems I would not be able to accept the compromise. But thanks for chiming in !!

 

[NQVHNWI]

Im sorry if I get this wrong, but I having difficulty understanding the setup you want?

I think for Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF), you want a Theatre, two BL5 as rear surrounds and BL3 as fronts?

You also want to play material via the Core?

Please can you clarify the roles of the loudspeakers as I think everything else is straight-forward (except the Almando box bit)

 

10

[appeardk]

Thanks Mr10Percent

I’ll try to sum up as good as I can 😉

• There is hardly any wife-factor in this, just the composition of the room combined the fact that I already have BL5’s in the room that cant be placed otherwise so the only way forward is to work with what I have in place and then add to that.
• I cant use BST (only) for BL5’s because then I would need to use PL-only and thats a downgrade from the Coax I use now via the Core. Also the core is a part of a larger eco-system I cant put on the BST (Phono player via digital RIAA, Roon via Mac Mini ect). So I need to share the BL5’s between the Core and the BST.
• I dont need fronts – the Theatre does that just fine.
• I have a BL5 located where the Left rear would be, I would like to use that as a rear.
• I dont have a BL5 where the Right rear would be, so I need something to fill that gap. I am thinking BL3.
• I understand mixing speakers at the rear is not a good idea, Millemusen made that abundantly clear to me. I do however hope I can down-tune the BL5 via the App that allows me to manipulate the levels of each speaker.

So what I have come up with: To share the BL5’s between the BRT and the Core (so I can keep playing via Digital Coax, or at least that what I hope) I will use the Almando switch, shown in the illustration above. From that feed the BL5 and from the left rear BL5 see if I can feed a BL3 a a right rear.If I cannot daisychain a BL3 on the BL5, I will have to go with the Receiver 1 even though it is not ideal due to lack of technical integration.

It’s all in the illustration above, I think I just need to try it out since this is not really what they intended in Struer.

[NQVHNWI]

Ok, thanks,

My 2 cents here.

1. Set the Theatre, BL5s and BL3s optimally for the Theatre.
2. Daisy-Chain the PLs BST >> BL5 >> BL5

3. Daisy-chain PLs BST >> BL3 Splitter >> BL3s

4. Connect Core to BST (not sure how this is done)

5. Daisy-chain Core coax >> BL5 >> BL5.

You will need to make a listening position for the BL5s stereo only and maybe configure the BR1. The music signal will be digital to the BL5s from the Core and the BST should control volume signal via PL?

Thats how I imagine it. Obviously, I can’t test but hope it helps?

[appeardk]

Thank you Mr10Percent. Really appreciate the input.

I like your plan, but I am not sure if 4. is showstopper. Not sure if it can be done, but I will try to investigate.

[NQVHNWI]

I used to run BL5s from a BV7 via PL. I also had a BS5/BM5 which sounded terrible when piped through ML to the BV7. However, piping the BM5 sound via coax directly to the BL5 raised the sound quality for music dramatically. BS5 or the BV could control volume.

Hopefully, the same principle can apply to you? BST/PL for TV, core/coax for music

[Millemissen]

@Appeardk

’……Also the core is a part of a larger eco-system I cant put on the BST (Phono player via digital RIAA, Roon via Mac Mini ect)’

Please explain…..in order to understand why the BST should not be able to do what the Core does now.

MM

[appeardk]

This is very very interresting to clear up.

I asked the question a few times in this thread, if it would be possible to put the BL5s directly on the BST.  I have looked at the connections of the BST and there is no digital out so I just dont know how I could draw a digital feed from it. So that is why it cannot do what the core does now.

So that is in practise the only reason why I could not leave out the Core of the equation.

Or, if it was possible to connect the BST to the Core I would do it in a minute, but I just dont see how.

Right now this is my best plan. Plan B would be: BL3 via Receiver 1.

If I am missing anything I would just love to get a hint or suggestion.

[Carolpa]

appeardk wrote:

If I am missing anything I would just love to get a hint or suggestion.

Be aware that if you PL chain both BL5 and the BL3 you will end having the same channel in one of the BL5 and the BL3!
That’s the same between the PL of the switch and the BST.

for 3 speakers connected to the BST you need minimal two PL cables if every speaker should have its own channel playing.

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