Beogram: Dust covers on or off during when playing

[Giorgione]

Hi community, as I couldn find any discussion on this topic in the forum, I’m wondering what your thoughts are regarding playing records with dust cover on or off. The “audiophile” community seems to agree that closed or – even worse – open lids act as a resonance trap that can negatively affect sound quality. Are heavier lids as on the 400* series less affected’. My record decks are placed behind the loudspeakers, but not in a separate cabinet.

[matador]

Hi Giorgone,

With all due respect, to people that understand and hear better than me, that kind of question always make me smile.

open lids act as a resonance trap that can negatively affect sound quality.

Yes maybe, but what about the mileage of the tip? will it “never be the same again” once it has touched the record?
And what about the reflecting power of any frame in the room? Not talking about the density of the concrete your house is made of…
And your lacation on any tectonic plate. Doesn’t even your presence in the room affect the acoustical flow of the soundwaves?

Just listen to the music and let the audiophiles make their things.

I, by the way, listen with the lid open, just because it’s a beautifull deck that has to be seen spinning.

Regards

[Peter]

I tend to close mine as the house is full of hairy dogs! Never noticed any difference on or off. tend to keep the lid off when using the 3000 Thorens as putting the lid back on is tricky when the record is playing!

[Giorgione]

Hey Matador,

Well, that’s a very beophile answer! I live in a wooden house, but indeed, each “obstacle” in the room has an effect on the sound, but these audiophiles were mainly referring to the effect on the pickup, I believe. See: https://pro-jectusa.com/2024/03/22/should-i-play-records-with-the-dust-cover-down/

B&o lids are an integral part of the design and – to my knowledge – mostly hinged and as such not meant to be removed for listening. I think, Jensen und co. did their research too… The 400x series also look nice without lid, though!

Best

[matador]

Have you tried with or without? What do you think?

Beograms 12XX had removable lid without hinges, actually the same lid that was use on the Beocord Open Reel tape players.
Those Beograms are actually and really nicer without cover than with.

I really would not bother about this. But I’m curious to read other member’s advice.

[Glitch]

My personal preference is to have anechoic furniture and wear one of these when listening to music. 😉

Seriously though, if your equipment/music elicits a physical (goosebumps) or emotional (happy or sad feelings) response, then it is doing its job.

Glitch

 

[matador]

Glitch wrote:

My personal preference is to have anechoic furniture and wear one of these when listening to music. 😉 Seriously though, if your equipment/music elicits a physical (goosebumps) or emotional (happy or sad feelings) response, then it is doing its job. Glitch

Link please…

[Giorgione]

Yes, I did, but accidentally, as the tonearm cover scrubbed slightly against the inside of the aluminum made lower section of the lid.  I felt I noticed a difference and therefore did some internet research. I was rather surprised but it looks like for the overwhelming part of  the audiophile crowd, record listening with the hood on is sacrilege. I will give it another try tomorrow, I don’t follow the (acoustic-) science anyway, but my ears. A nice hinged lid is a cost factor so that’s probably also an understandable reason for omitting it.

[Giorgione]

I get your point, have two dogs too but the odds are low to get their hair on a spinning record 🙂 Clothes are normally the biggest hair-traps. Dust is worse for the vinyl and more widespread, I think.

[Glitch]

matador wrote:

Link please…

I can’t tell if you are serious. I just googled “fuzzy jumpsuit” and picked the picture of the fuzziest one. 😉

As far as the lid up/downs goes. I always assumed that picking up a piece of dust on the stylus would have a bigger effect than anything else. Even considering that, I’m more concerned about the damage to the cartridge related to messing with the lid. Lid down for hinged lids removes the possibility of the lid slamming shut. Lid off for unattached lids to avoid bumping the tone arm.

Glitch

 

[Giorgione]

Ha, ha, sure, it gives me goosebumps with or without hood just by looking at it! My furniture is anechoic and because of my fabulously furry body, I’m a nude listener. You are also right in not taking audio too seriously, unlike other forums. But I’m still interested to know whether these sound waves hit the pickup having an impact on the sound quality or not and I was hoping to get some experts’ opinion. I can hardly believe this topic never popped up in the B&O community.

[etype76]

As noted, to the audio file crowd the vote is overwhelmingly lid off. On my 4000, I mostly play lid up because I like it and sometimes lid down if there’s a lot going on (situated in living/dining). Cooking can also introduce unwanted oil and our air purifier in the living room shows orange/red when frying (well, when my wife fries on full burners lol). The joys of open plan. Two lil dogs as well but they don’t shed much.

I personally don’t hear any sonic difference up or down tbh.

Maybe you came across this already as it features quite highly up on the Google search. This is what Pro-Ject have to say if graphs is your thing:

https://pro-jectusa.com/2024/03/22/should-i-play-records-with-the-dust-cover-down/

 

[etype76]

I know * audiophile 🙂

[Glitch]

Giorgione wrote:

My furniture is anechoic and because of my fabulously furry body, I’m a nude listener.

LOL

 

I think that the stereotypical B&O owner has different priorities that the stereotypical audiophile. For example, I can’t recall ever seeing a Powerlink cable that featured high purity copper, varying gauge strands within each conductor, opposing conductors pairs having left and right hand twists, Teflon insulation, 24K gold plated connectors, all double cryogenically treated. I’m sure that many of B&O’s customers have the means to buy such a cable, just not the desire.

etype76 wrote:

This is what Pro-Ject have to say if graphs is your thing:

Interesting article. I wonder how loud they were playing the test tones (at point blank range)?

Does this explain why B&O featured slant front covers on some turntables? Like radar reflecting off a stealth fighter…

Glitch

 

[Giorgione]

Yes, I came across it, also actually posted it already 🙂

Like Glitch, I’m missing the loudness level as this seems crucial to me. Anyway, I’m not wondering about the lid up / lid closed difference (if down is bad, up is even worse, following the same logic), but about lid closed or off. According to Pro-ject it’s off = good, on = bad and up = worse.

We can also leave the whole cable alchemy discussion to the “audio files” (like that neologism) although there might be a difference between signal transportation for active and passive speakers, I just dig fat nicely braided cables for optical reasons. IMHO, the stereotypical B&o customer nowadays, I’m afraid, is primarily wealthy, his audio gear just part of the furniture selected by the interior designer. Guys spending their time in forums like this one are no longer the target audience but mostly old gear owners, a rare breed in extinction. B&o never was cheap stuff, rightly so, rather middle/upper class, but today they don’t match neither much my taste, nor my budget. They should have kept a high quality analog, down-to-earth line in their portfolio including a record deck < € 10 k! 😉

The slant design theory is also interesting, I always thought it was just due to the Zeitgeist…

[etype76]

Yes, so you did post that link, sorry I missed it!

I also thought that the slanted lid was simply part of the design. Whether it had beneficial effects on resonance was likely coincidental.

beautiful shot of your BM8000 and BG8000. Unapologetically 80s.

As for cable, I’ve tried many over the years and there’s definitely a difference to be heard. I installed 12m of Furutech cable and hated the sound. Then I switched to QED 75(?) and was much happier. That’s all gone now, now powerlink cable and Steve’s cables and very happy.

[Giorgione]

etype76 wrote:

beautiful shot of your BM8000 and BG8000. Unapologetically 80s.

Thanks! I actually made an early transition to fully digital in the 80’s and already back to partially analog in the early 90’s because of the horrificly “remastered” early CD’s. Luckily never got rid of my LP’s, so I still had a comparison.  Now fully analog, at least regarding my serious listening habits. Switched my BL9 against MC102.2 (.2 because of the binding posts ;-))

Hard to try the BG8002 without lid, will test the BG4002.

[Peter]

The one thing that does make a difference on the cartridges is room temperature – tests on the MMC20CL showed that you really want the room temperature to be about 20 degrees – I imagine this is due to the suspension of the cartridge – and it does make a difference! The problem now is that most cartridges will have old rubber suspension and the sound will deteriorate. Luckily, getting old, the higher frequencies have mainly gone anyway and new rubber blocks not available for ossicle suspension!

[Giorgione]

I know, a nice old-school spot can help to keep the right temperature too 🙂 But again, I’d like to hear opinions/findings/speculation/test results about these alleged disturbing resonances transmitted via the lid. Maybe there’s some ex B&O employee in the forum who remembers having had such discussions, back when he was very, very young? Maybe hinged lids are less affected or not affected at all, maybe it’s just some more audio-file BS and a good, heavy lid shields against these waves? I have no clue. Anyway, I think the question is justified. One of these days I’ll make a hearing test and post my very subjective findings. As said, digital is superior on paper too, but not so for my ears.

[Glitch]

etype76 wrote:

I also thought that the slanted lid was simply part of the design. Whether it had beneficial effects on resonance was likely coincidental.

My slanted lid comment was made in jest. I’ve always imagined that there was a rivalry (friendly or not) at B&O between the designers and the engineers. It seems like a significant amount of the engineering innovation was a result of overcoming the compromises dictated by the styling. This seems most evident in the speakers made between the 1980’s and 2010’s.

Giorgione wrote:

I’d like to hear opinions/findings/speculation/test results about these alleged disturbing resonances transmitted via the lid

Have you considered duplicating the pro-jectusa test? This seems like an easy test to setup. You would also have the benefits of testing at the listening levels that you normally use along with your exact equipment location and room acoustics.

I don’t put much merit in other people’s “listening tests”. There are too many possible variables that make any results meaningless.

Glitch

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