Modding B&O speakers?

[guy12312]

Anyone ever thought -or tried out modding any of their speakers? I have these Beovox S45-2 ones and I do like the imaging but feel like the tweeter driver could be replaced with a better one.

[Dillen]

guy12312 wrote:

Anyone ever thought -or tried out modding any of their speakers? I have these Beovox S45-2 ones and I do like the imaging but feel like the tweeter driver could be replaced with a better one.

Why?

Martin

[Glitch]

I’m not averse to modding speakers. However, you might want to consider restoring the speakers to original condition before trying modifications. Verify that the capacitors in the crossover are good, the surrounds are in good condition, the cabinet is properly sealed, etc. The tweeters might have ferrofluid that has gone bad.

The S45’s are generally regarded as a nicely voiced speaker. If you don’t like the sound of a well restored speaker, by all means hack away. But keep in mind that it is pretty hard to improve upon a well designed speaker.

What specifically do you not like about the speakers?

Glitch

[guy12312]

Dillen wrote:

guy12312 wrote:

Anyone ever thought -or tried out modding any of their speakers? I have these Beovox S45-2 ones and I do like the imaging but feel like the tweeter driver could be replaced with a better one.

Why?

Martin

Because I’ve compared it with other speakers and found the tweeters of other speakers be a bit better

Glitch wrote:

I’m not averse to modding speakers. However, you might want to consider restoring the speakers to original condition before trying modifications. Verify that the capacitors in the crossover are good, the surrounds are in good condition, the cabinet is properly sealed, etc. The tweeters might have ferrofluid that has gone bad. The S45’s are generally regarded as a nicely voiced speaker. If you don’t like the sound of a well restored speaker, by all means hack away. But keep in mind that it is pretty hard to improve upon a well designed speaker. What specifically do you not like about the speakers? Glitch

It’s not that I don’t like it, but like I stated above, I feel like it could be improved over, also how can I check wherever the ferrofluid is still good?

[Glitch]

guy12312 wrote:

It’s not that I don’t like it, but like I stated above, I feel like it could be improved over, also how can I check wherever the ferrofluid is still good?

I don’t know if the S45’s use ferrofluid (FF) in the tweeters. Hopefully someone else can comment on this.

The only way I know of checking if the FF has gone bad is to take the driver apart. I would only do this if I knew for sure that the driver had FF and the driver was sounding dull and lifeless. The FF should be a clear brown viscous oil. The viscosity can vary depending on what the manufacturer used. Bad FF can be muddy or even crusty looking.

I only have one pair of B&O speakers left in my collection. They are Penta2’s. Originally, I thought that they were somewhat dull and lacking impact compared to the other speakers that I own. However, the midrange seemed to do something special. I ended up making a bunch of modifications including changing the tweeter FF to one that was less viscous and modifying the crossovers to remove the “tilted down” signature. I like them enough now that I can’t imagine re-homing them.

If you can describe what you find lacking with your S45’s it will be easier for people to make suggestions for modifications.

Glitch

[Dillen]

What other speakers did you compare to?

Did you replace the capacitors or are the still the original?

Martin

[Die_Bogener]

S45 speaker sound pretty good if technic is ok. Little bit oldfashioned, not very clear, but pretty ok.

The crossover is made with bipolar electrolyth caps. Even new, the sound is just ok, not more.

Replace them with this material: Audyn MKS foil caps. They last or a lifetime… and the sound is superior for tweeters and crossovers. Just a little bit expensive…

https://www.google.de/search?sxsrf=APwXEdfKhAIQpbUCQv3JuWa-7OZkPReTWg:1682927688386&q=audyn+mks+kondensator+hifi&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6yrGY0tP-AhXySfEDHTOxAKIQ0pQJegQIBRAB&biw=2752&bih=1011&dpr=1.25

 

[guy12312]

Dillen wrote:

What other speakers did you compare to? Did you replace the capacitors or are the still the original? Martin

Wharfdale Evo 4.2 and Kali 8-In 2nd Wave. As far as I know the caps the the originals

 

Die_Bogener wrote:

-and the sound is superior for tweeters and crossovers. Just a little bit expensive… https://www.google.de/search?sxsrf=APwXEdfKhAIQpbUCQv3JuWa-7OZkPReTWg:1682927688386&q=audyn+mks+kondensator+hifi&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi6yrGY0tP-AhXySfEDHTOxAKIQ0pQJegQIBRAB&biw=2752&bih=1011&dpr=1.25

Just to clarify: Do you mean it sounds superior once that condensator is installed?

[Dillen]

So, basically, you are comparing a 45 year old speaker still running on its original
capacitors that, ideally, should’ve been replaced 20 years ago, to two speaker models
that are currently available new in shops – and you find them lacking a little treble?

Well… replace the capacitors to grant it just a hint of fairness.
Kits are readily available.

Beovox S45-2 is an incredibly well balanced and sounding speaker, but it is not “audiophile” and will never be.
Keep in mind it was merely somewhere in the middle of the Beovox model range at the time.

Martin

[chartz]

That Philips tweeter was very good. It was used in many great speakers, including Philips’s own legendary MFB active speakers. I agree that replacing the Xover caps should be tried, hoping that the units were not damaged.

No ferrofluid was used by Philips, by the way.

Jacques

[kronzilla]

Indeed it is better to replace the bipolar caps with the Audyn mkp’s.

If the surrounds are in good shape (but at that age you get foam rot, so better let them refoamed or refoam them by yourself) , and you still don’t like the sound after the mod, maybe you could sell them to give them another good home, but don’t modify them, the value will not getting better after the mod. (it’s like throuwing the baby away with the bath water) because it is vintage B&O and such nice products must be treated with respect and not messing around with them. ( i find the value of the vintage products higher than the newer products, but that is my opinion).

Or you can try another amplifier. Wich amplifier do you use? Maybe the problem is not the speaker?

[Glitch]

I agree that a vintage speaker’s value is best preserved by keeping it stock.  However, I don’t quite understand the logic in some of the statements above.

Why is it any different to install boutique foil capacitors than to swap the tweeter (per the OP’s question)? Either modification will (arguably) change the voicing of the speaker from the original.

Glitch

 

[Dillen]

Beovox S45 (Type 6302) and Beovox S45-2 (Type 6312) does not suffer from foam rot as they use rubber surrounds.

Beovox S45 (Type 6427), however, does.
Fixable, though.

Martin

[Die_Bogener]

B&O used pretty good stuff for the cabinets and for the loudspeakers. The speakers were usually very, very good sounding material… besides the surrounds. But they can be fixed.

The electronics was almost every time standard. B&O always used the standard aplication of the chip, used by Philips or intel or whatsoever, 100% according to the chip manufacturer.

This had a high amount of reliability. Longliving material, but only standard in the soundquality of the electronics.

But this has also good effects. Longliving, good repair possibilities, good supply of spare parts and … it can be upgraded very easy with better material.

Compare a LM833 to a BurrBrown UA2134… 0,00001% distortions and 50db better noise… that’s not a world, that are dimensions of light years…

Test a good B&O tweeter with an average bipolar electrolyth cap. Just average, just like all others… nothing really special…

Test the same tweeter with a polystyrene MKS-4 100V Foil from Wima. Really Good!

Test the same with a 100V Audyn 5% selected tin or silver plated cap. Woooooowwwww, GREAT!!! Test the effect with “Hotel California…” you will not think, this is the same music. You do not need any bass or loudness or any sound control, nothing but 100% original sound to hear a new world.

But: 50 Cent versus 15 Euro MKS… worth every Cent. Audyn is expensive material. One Penta is around 200€ material, just material, no work…

[Glitch]

I agree with much of what you wrote. Especially the part about B&O leaning on reference designs for the core functionality. My comments were referring to “value” of the modifications more than “performance potential”.

For example, lets say one starts with a 200€ S45 and installed 150€ of fancy capacitors in it. It is still only a 200€ speaker to most people. It might be worth a bit more to someone that isn’t able (or willing) to do the modifications themselves. It might be worth a lot less to an enthusiast that doesn’t trust the quality somebody else’s work or wants originality. It is most likely worth more than 350€ to the person that made the modifications because it is exactly what they want.

Many people would rather spend the same 350€ on something higher up the product line, say a S75, than take the risk on installing expensive parts without a guarantee that they will like the results. There is less risk with buying the S75 since it could be sold for what one paid for it if they don’t like the performance.

Installing relatively inexpensive electrolytic caps makes more sense to me. A kit can be purchased for less than 18€. One could assemble their own “kit” for less if they valued their money more than their time. The expensive caps could always be tried if one liked the direction of progress (or the speaker sold for 200€ at a small loss).

Glitch

 

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