The streamer B&O should draw inspiration from

24 replies

Not exactly the same setup by any means, but I bought a Linn streamer / DAC for my 50s.

Partly to give the 50s a Roon source - as the Linn is seen by my Roon Nucleus as an endpoint.

But partly, and just as importantly, the DAC in the Linn streamer sounds a good deal more pleasing (better to me) when I take its DAC output into the analogue 50s inputs.

If I bypass the Linn DAC, and just take its streamers' digital output into my 50s, its perfectly fine, but not that close to the relaxed warmth I get from the Linn's analogue (i.e. DAC) output. For the record, my Linn streamer has the upgraded Katalyst DAC.

I won't go farther in adding bits to the chain - but from my experience, a strong DAC has got me to a very happy place.

 

 

politician wrote:

Very interesting, @Mr 10Percent.

I have the BeoLab 90s and am heading down the same route. I have a couple of questions for you.

You said you have the full Auralic stack, presumably including the DAC. Do you find this gives you better sound when connected to the BL90s' analogue input compared to a direct digital connection from the streaming transport?

Do you find the music server gives better results than a generic NAS?

Do you find the Melco CD ripper (which I'm presuming is a D100) gives better-sounding files than ripping using a computer and a quality program with AccurateRip?

 

Also very interesting, @Sandy B. I've always been cautious about introducing extra steps into the chain (i.e. two DACs) and wonder whether there is any point in clocking an Auralic or dCS stack as the Lab 90s/50s reclock when converting to digital and back again, but maybe this is something I should investigate.

politician wrote:

Very interesting, @Mr 10Percent.

I have the BeoLab 90s and am heading down the same route. I have a couple of questions for you.

You said you have the full Auralic stack, presumably including the DAC. Do you find this gives you better sound when connected to the BL90s' analogue input compared to a direct digital connection from the streaming transport?

Do you find the music server gives better results than a generic NAS?

Do you find the Melco CD ripper (which I'm presuming is a D100) gives better-sounding files than ripping using a computer and a quality program with AccurateRip?

 

Politician. 

To address you points as best I can:

1. I went for the Melco N1Z H60 first. I was fed-up of my WD NAS and the way it performed (slow, difficult access and yes....noisy)

2. The Melco is a dog to control on its own but it does do DNLA - so all my older Beo-Systems (TV, Essence) could pull the files effortlessly. 

3. I purchased the Vega G2 DAC - mainly because I was not overly happy with the Melco to BL90 over USB or SPDif. I was also worried that Auralic have had issues changing their coding and the BL90 not being receptive. This is common with a lot of Streamers/DAC combos that cant talk to one another. By purchasing a Vega G2 DAC, I could stream analogue (which is what all digital music is anyway) via XLR and get good results. I used a reasonable priced cable here (AQ Water 2) to move the signal 6m. BL90 has a USB limit of 4.8m so no good for me hiding black boxes away.

4. Later, I added the Leo Clock, the Aries G2 Streamer and finally, the Sirius G2.1. I would say you could quite easily stop at the either one box solution of the less capable streamer (VEGA DAC) or connect fully digitally with the Aries). Adding the Clock made a very small difference. The Sirius however (the VEGA-LEO are combos as is the ARIES-SIRIUS) made what I think is a very noticeable addition to the sound by up-sampling almost everything from Redbook to DSD512. This (and the Aries too) helps the DAC compute much better and filter off the noise.

5. The analogue waveform then goes to the BL90 as 192kbps where it is re-digitised, DSP-d and re-analogue. One can say too many processes? However, it does sound very good and somewhat future-proofs my system. (replace BL90s with something else, use Auralics somewhere else?)

6. I have ripped my entire CD collection twice. Once with my PC and dbpowerAmp/Accurip etc..) and once again with the Melco. In retrospect, the Melco gives very good results and is effortless apart from pushing a eject button and twice on the Melco N1Z to record. I do not use the Melco D100 with my PC. I do use Jaikoz to re-tabulate my music file metadata.

7. one more unforeseen issue was with the BL90s generating a very distinct humm at 0 sound volume. This was attributed the Auralics running on the same power circuit as the Labs. The PS Audio Stellar P3 was then purchased to power all the digital sources (with a Audio Macro 6-way power distributor) on the high performance Regen line. The other equipment runs on the standard regen line.

 

In terms of it all holistically.

1. The BL90 adds the biggest bang for buck by far. 

2. There is definitely more money involved here than sense. It sort of addictive in a way. Beware.

3. Music quality (mastering) as you know with the BL90 is THE major problem.

4. Adding more black boxes improves the quality of the sound. The Law of diminishing returns. The argument is...can you really tell and can you measure it?

5. Is my solution better than a BS Core. Yes. Absolutely. Testing a Core and the PLink from a Beovision. No difference/improvement between those two in my opinion. However, there is $$$$ attached to the big difference between the Auralics and a BSCore. 

6. What I think erks me the most is pairing the BL90 with something decent, but not stupidly expensive decent. There is nothing in the middle and those loudspeakers deserve something good and they deserve well-recorded material to play.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for a very enlightening answer. I'm currently using an Auralic Aries Femto directly into the BL90, but will probably upgrade when they launch the G3. (I tested a G2.1 and it was a significant improvement, but as it was a mid-life upgrade I decided to wait.) I also a tested a dCS Network Bridge, which I found very unimpressive, but might have more luck with their Vivaldi range if ever I get my hands on a piece to test.

politician wrote:

Also very interesting, @Sandy B. I've always been cautious about introducing extra steps into the chain (i.e. two DACs) and wonder whether there is any point in clocking an Auralic or dCS stack as the Lab 90s/50s reclock when converting to digital and back again, but maybe this is something I should investigate. 

Just to add on my last point for everyone else as well. 

Clocking reduces jitter. Im sure Technical people can give better explanations than myself - a music lover-techno-novice.

The Upsampling stage is interesting. Contrary to the "bits is bits", and that you cant get any more information out of a 44.1kbps CD, the upsampling as I understand it converts the signal into higher bitrate and then the x2 Nyquist formula comes into play where it can place a very accurate filter on high-frequency "undesirable noise".

At lower bitrates, this cuts off part of the audible spectrum as filters capable of doing this are very complicated/expensive. I look as an upsampler as add-on filter. 

As an added bonus, you also get to chose the native/optimal sample feedrate of a DAC and thus reduce computational load. This is equipment matching at its finest?

 

Sandyb wrote:

Not exactly the same setup by any means, but I bought a Linn streamer / DAC for my 50s.

Partly to give the 50s a Roon source - as the Linn is seen by my Roon Nucleus as an endpoint.

But partly, and just as importantly, the DAC in the Linn streamer sounds a good deal more pleasing (better to me) when I take its DAC output into the analogue 50s inputs.

If I bypass the Linn DAC, and just take its streamers' digital output into my 50s, its perfectly fine, but not that close to the relaxed warmth I get from the Linn's analogue (i.e. DAC) output. For the record, my Linn streamer has the upgraded Katalyst DAC. 

 

I think what we are hearing here is the limitation in either USB transmission or the SPDif.  I don't think this is a B&O thing as I've hear plenty of people take about DAC compatibility issues and the thin-ness of USB sound when there is no compatibility issue. 

Another issue is that a good deal of Streamers (particularly lower-end) stream via USB with the 5V service voltage inherent in most of their USB connections. Galvanically isolated is better?. This 5V re-introduces noise into the system which the Amp/Loudspeaker combo can pick up on.

Although the USB connections are fine, I have been considering connecting my Lumin UI Mini streamer via XLR to my 90s.

Does anyone have any experience or advice with this kind of hook up?

Mr 10Percent wrote:

I’ve gone full-stupid on my gear to compliment the BL90s.

I like you 😎😁

@seethroughyou I'm not going to reply to each point in your post.  I do agree with you that B&O's handling of the software on Moment was absolutely dismal from beginning to end.  I think it's pathetic and almost unconscionable that they are no longer supporting the product that was their flagship device until just a couple of years ago.

I do want to address this:

seethroughyou wrote:
You must need your eyes checking if you think the display has the granularity and clarity of the Moment's.

The display on the HiFi Rose RS-150 is 1280x390 - I confirmed this with the manufacturer over email.  On a 14.9 inch display this works out to a pitch of 90 pixels per inch.  The Moment's display is 1280x800, and 7 inches diagonal.  That works out to a pitch of 216 pixels per inch.  If you think a 90 ppi display will look better than a 216ppi display I think you may also need to have your eyes checked.  Or more accurately, I think you should look at videos of the RS-150 using a large 4k display, so you can see yourself that the RS-150's display is actually lower pitch/resolution than the Moment's.  This 4k video shows a close-up of the Rose's display at 1:29: https://youtu.be/6vLF-7BIc7Y?t=129

I don't think you have ever owned a Moment, or you would understand that its display is just fine: it looks good and the touchscreen and scrolling are very responsive.  And I don't think you have used the RS-150 yourself, or you would know that the display is only half an HD display (meaning HD pixel width, half as tall) and lower pixel pitch than the display on the Moment.

 

I think ultimately it comes to preferences.  I like iPhones because the interface is fairly basic and consistent, and I find it does what I need in a simple way; I have friends who prefer Android phones because they can be customized and adjusted in an almost infinite manner.  The thing that they love about Android is what I dislike about it; the thing that I love about iOS is what they dislike about it.  Similarly, I want a simple interface that lets me pick some music and not think any more about it.  You don't like that because you want lots of apps and upgradability and configurability.  So the simple Moment is a good choice for me, and the app-centric RS-150 is a good choice for you.

 

As far as which is better for B&O . . . well I think they lean toward simple and elegant rather than flashy, so I feel that the RS-150 design isn't appropriate for the brand.

My B&O Icons:

Beosound-Stage.png Beosound-Stage.png
Beosound-Moment.png Beosound-Moment.png
Beosound-Level.png Beosound-Level.png
Beosound-Essence.png Beosound-Essence.png
Beosound-Balance.png Beosound-Balance.png
Beosound-A5.png Beosound-A5.png
Beosound-2.png Beosound-2.png
Beoremote-Halo.png Beoremote-Halo.png
Beoplay-M5.png Beoplay-M5.png
Beoplay-Earset.png Beoplay-Earset.png
Beoplay-A6.png Beoplay-A6.png

I quite like the design and usability of the rose audio streamer although I think that the Sony HAP-Z1es still has the fastest non touchscreen interface with its jogdial.

No need to fight or argue whether or not the rose audio streamer is better or worse than B&Os solution(s). It's a matter of taste and as many members here on Beoworld had demonstrated since all the years of B&O love, you can mix it well with B&O and can be happy.
But personally I would be happy if B&O makes a Beosound with a screen and physical controls again... I hate when I have to use a phone or tablet for controlling anything.


I really like and support Mrc. 10 percents approach to music listenting at home!  It has that relieving "Ah, I'm not alone with this" effect. ;-)

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