Stylus retipping opinions...

28 replies
MrRoast
Offline
MrRoast
Bronze
Posted October 2, 2015 at 11:12 GMT
#2050776

Hello all,

I've been thinking about getting an MMC20CL re-tipped for my Beogram 4000 (the original cantilever has snapped off the one I have) and have been in contact with Axel about his service. I can get a Shibata naked diamond on an aluminium cantilever for approx £150. 

I'd pretty much decided to go with that (and watched the German TV video showing Axel at work!) until I saw a post mentioning a UK based company called the Expert Stylus Company (who seem to have good reviews on various sites/forums).

Well I've been in contact and they've come back with a price of £155 to repair the MMC20CL with a sapphire cantilever and a Paratrace profile diamond.

My question is has anybody had repairs done by them and whether to go with Axel purely based on the bulk of good reviews from Beoworld members? I'd prefer the sapphire cantilever, however, from reading reviews the cantilever has minimal bearing on the end sound anyway - but I'd just like to think i was going for the spec B&O went for originally.

Any thoughts?

 

Location: Nottingham, UK

My B&O Icons:

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Beolit.png Beolit.png
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DA
Offline
Davefarr
Bronze
Posted October 2, 2015 at 12:04 GMT
#2050777

Light weight and compliance is a reson for a saphire cantilever.  I've not used them but lots have and are very impressed.  Benz use them for re-tipping as did Linn.  The do have a good reputation.  The Paratrace stylus seems to increase 'brightness'.

Axel does use the original Shibata which is a plus for originality.  It would be interesting to hear your comments on ESC if you choose to use them. What is their turnaround time?  Do they do the suspênsion repairs etc that will be necessary on some cartridges?

Most comments seem to suggest cartridges sound better than the original with ESC.  Give them a try.

Dave.

L(
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leeshep (archived2)
Bronze
Posted October 2, 2015 at 12:18 GMT
#2050778
Axel can do a line contact stylus on sapphire cantilever which will put it back to original specification. He also now does a high end nude shibata on boron cantilever (€460!) it sounds much better than the line contact on sapphire and is highly recommended if you plan to seriously listen to records.
MrRoast
Offline
MrRoast
Bronze
Posted October 2, 2015 at 12:51 GMT
#2050779

@Dave Farr

Thanks for the advice - their turnaround time is 3-4 weeks but don't mention suspension repairs - I was told they inspect the cartridge to see if it's viable and if not there's a £15 inspection/return fee. I did read some good comments about their work on a LINN forum - I'll mull it over before I decide!

@Lee

Cheers - I'm sure the boron option is great 😁 - maybe a future upgrade when I can justify it! The 4000 came with an MMC 20EN but I acquired a cantilever-less CL so thought a repair would be justifiable - ultimately it will be paired with my Beolab 5000 which is currently with Frede at Classic Audio. I'm slowly building the system I've always dreamed of!

Location: Nottingham, UK

My B&O Icons:

Beoremote-Beo4.png Beoremote-Beo4.png
Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
Peter
Offline
Peter
Gold
Posted October 2, 2015 at 15:07 GMT
#2050780

Having run a BG4000 and a BG3000 Thorens through my 5000 system, your dream system needs a 3000. Mine has an Axel cartridge commissioned by Frede.

My B&O Icons:

BeoCenter-9500.png BeoCenter-9500.png
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Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beovision-11.png Beovision-11.png
Beotime.png Beotime.png
Beosound-Stage.png Beosound-Stage.png
Beosound-Moment.png Beosound-Moment.png
Beosound-5.png Beosound-5.png
Beosound-2.png Beosound-2.png
Beoremote-One.png Beoremote-One.png
Beoplay-Portal.png Beoplay-Portal.png
Beoplay-Earset.png Beoplay-Earset.png
Beomaster.png Beomaster.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
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Beocenter-2.png Beocenter-2.png
MrRoast
Offline
MrRoast
Bronze
Posted October 2, 2015 at 17:20 GMT
#2050781
@Peter

It may be heresy 😉😎 but I'm not fussed about the 3000. Yes I know it's the bee's knees but I'm a designer and the look plays a big part in making that dream - the 4000 ticks all my boxes! Probably the same reason I'd give the 8000 system a wide birth 😁

(Prepares to run...)

Location: Nottingham, UK

My B&O Icons:

Beoremote-Beo4.png Beoremote-Beo4.png
Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
CL
Offline
Cleviebaby
Bronze
Posted October 3, 2015 at 07:32 GMT
#2050782
MrRoast wrote:

@Peter

It may be heresy but I'm not fussed about the 3000. Yes I know it's the bee's knees but I'm a designer and the look plays a big part in making that dream - the 4000 ticks all my boxes! Probably the same reason I'd give the 8000 system a wide birth

(Prepares to run...)

I understand fully your point of view.

Whilst I can appreciate the quality of the Thorens 124 and the standard of Frede's work on the Beogram 3000, as a piece of styling rather than engineering design, it leaves something to be desired.

Even though I own a Beosystem 8000, I'm still not convinced of its design credence either! It is a fine sounding system, but it is very much of its time and is the audio equivalent of brutalist architecture.

Continuing the analogy, the Beogram 4000 is the Seagram Building - discreet, perfectly proportioned and timeless.

Cleve
DA
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Davefarr
Bronze
Posted October 3, 2015 at 08:12 GMT
#2050783

I originally ran my Beolab 5000 system with a BG4000 + MMC20CL and was really happy with it.  I wanted a completely original system so then also bought a fully restored BG3000 Thorens from Frede to match.  I have to say it completely out performs the BG4000 and 20CL combination in everything except convenience of record auto start and stop.  However, I understand wanting a system of one's dreams and if that's with a BG4000, then I'm all for it.

The OP wanted to have the cart as per B&O specs but then that would rule out the Paratrace stylus and an aluminium cantilever on a 20CL.  I look forward to the choice made and how it sounds when it's done.

Dave.

MrRoast
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MrRoast
Bronze
Posted October 3, 2015 at 10:09 GMT
#2050784

@Cleviebaby

Agreed - with Bang & Olufsen we can all appreciate there are more ways their products can be valued than purely just for function; engineering, design, build quality and so on. Likewise we all pander to our opinions and as someone wise once said opinions are like 'bottoms' - we all have them! 😁

@Dave Farr

I totally understand about the 5000 system from a completist point of view - I'm actually quite envious of your setup in that respect and I bet it sounds fantastic! Stylus-wise I've decided to try the ESC and see what they come back with.

Thank you all for your advice!

Location: Nottingham, UK

My B&O Icons:

Beoremote-Beo4.png Beoremote-Beo4.png
Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
DA
Offline
Davefarr
Bronze
Posted October 3, 2015 at 10:55 GMT
#2050785
MrRoast wrote:

@Cleviebaby

Agreed - with Bang & Olufsen we can all appreciate there are more ways their products can be valued than purely just for function; engineering, design, build quality and so on. Likewise we all pander to our opinions and as someone wise once said opinions are like 'bottoms' - we all have them!

@Dave Farr

I totally understand about the 5000 system from a completist point of view - I'm actually quite envious of your setup in that respect and I bet it sounds fantastic! Stylus-wise I've decided to try the ESC and see what they come back with.

Thank you all for your advice!

That sounds like a good idea. It's always good to try out a new, respected supplier. I'm interested to hear what you think of the ESC service and product. Please feed back as this is of note rest to me and many others.

By the way, the BG4000 is a mighty fine machine and if working well does fit very nicely with the 5000 system. I hope you enjoy them.

Dave.
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