One for Geoff?

20 replies

It was about 4 years ago I auditioned the Beolab 90. Notwithstanding the sound quality I was a little surprised that the wide/narrow sound format was one or the other.

Subsequently I purchased the Beolab 50's and of course it is the same.

I have had the 50's nearly 3 years now and can appreciate the broadness and spaciality of the speakers in wide mode along with the detail and finess in narrow.

But I cannot help feeling that it would be a huge benefit to have the option of varying between the two?

Surely this would not be a difficult task and could be acheived via a software update?

I am always chasing the best of worlds I know, but this seems quite simple? Or is it? 

How do you mean varrying between the two? I don’t fully get it. Do you mean a mixture of narrow and wide?

Not a mixture but the ability to move proportionally from one to another. 

Hi Geoff,

I’m always so impressed by your explanations.

Despite I still only understand 1% of it (not due to your very good explanation) it makes me even more interested in the physics behind acoustic behaviour and the top end speakers of B&O.

As I try to learn myself bit by bit (your YT blogs are very helpful), two questions come to mind:

- as the 90’s have all the magic programmed in them, how big a step down are the acoustical enhancements of the 50’s and then again the 28’s?

- my brother in law happens to be a professional music producer and he is actually understanding all of this. I was discussing with him the working principals of room compensation capability of the BL’s. He was impressed but still a bit sceptical (and here comes my question); he mentioned that no matter how you enhance the sound beam, it will bounce back on the back wall of the room and still have impact of the sound beam. How does this apply for the 90’s for instance?

Many thanks if you find time and interest to reply.

Best regards,

Serge

Fansastic wrote:
Hi Geoff,

- as the 90’s have all the magic programmed in them, how big a step down are the acoustical enhancements of the 50’s and then again the 28’s?

This is almost-as-complicated a question, however:
In principle, the difference between the 90s, the 50s, and the 28s is the frequency range of the directivity control that I describe above.
The 50s control the directivity of the high frequency band using the movable sides of the lens instead. This actually means that, at 20 kHz, the beam width of the 50s is more like the other bands than in the 90s, where the 1" tweeter has started beaming. This is noticeable in the measurements published in the Technical Sound Guides for the two loudspeakers.
The 28s only have a single woofer, so it's impossible to do directivity control in the frequency band covered by that driver.
However, the method of controlling the directivity is, in principle, the same. Of course, the filters that are calculated and implemented are completely different.

 

Fansastic wrote:
Hi Geoff,

- my brother in law happens to be a professional music producer and he is actually understanding all of this. I was discussing with him the working principals of room compensation capability of the BL’s. He was impressed but still a bit sceptical (and here comes my question); he mentioned that no matter how you enhance the sound beam, it will bounce back on the back wall of the room and still have impact of the sound beam. How does this apply for the 90’s for instance?

Your brother in law is completely correct. However, the back wall reflection will have a primary impact on the timbre instead of the imaging. So, we use the beam width control  (directivity) to reduce the side wall reflections, and the ARC (Adaptive Room Compensation) to look after the timbral effects of the back wall reflection. Tell your brother in law that the primary analysis and processing for the ARC is correcting the frequency-dependent phase, not the magnitude response, of the loudspeakers. So, we're not just attenuating the symptoms - we're trying to correct the problem.
Cheers
-geoff

 

PLEASE READ before sending me a Personal Message.

If you have questions about or problems with B&O equipment, these should be directed through your dealer and/or B&O's Customer Service department.

I cannot be a "short circuit", bypassing these communication channels.

Thanks
-geoff
Geoff, thank you! When is the test? I feel like reading this should give us some type of school certificate 😎

I knew it was more complicated than we thaught, but the amount of science in our speakers is amazing! I wish that was more emphasized...

Btw maybe silly question, but could one sort of make one of these half way filters by measuring widely(like how the manual tells you to do for wide mode) in the narrow mode and vice versa or taking a bunch of narrow measurements and combining them in to a filter while the speakers play in wide mode?

It’s still somewhat static, but could that be a half way between both modes?
Geoff Martin wrote:

This is almost-as-complicated a question, however: In principle, the difference between the 90s, the 50s, and the 28s is the frequency range of the directivity control that I describe above. The 50s control the directivity of the high frequency band using the movable sides of the lens instead. This actually means that, at 20 kHz, the beam width of the 50s is more like the other bands than in the 90s, where the 1" tweeter has started beaming. This is noticeable in the measurements published in the Technical Sound Guides for the two loudspeakers. The 28s only have a single woofer, so it's impossible to do directivity control in the frequency band covered by that driver. However, the method of controlling the directivity is, in principle, the same. Of course, the filters that are calculated and implemented are completely different.

Your brother in law is completely correct. However, the back wall reflection will have a primary impact on the timbre instead of the imaging. So, we use the beam width control (directivity) to reduce the side wall reflections, and the ARC (Adaptive Room Compensation) to look after the timbral effects of the back wall reflection. Tell your brother in law that the primary analysis and processing for the ARC is correcting the frequency-dependent phase, not the magnitude response, of the loudspeakers. So, we're not just attenuating the symptoms - we're trying to correct the problem. Cheers -geoff

Many thanks Geoff and will forward your reply! It’s magic and looking forward go have my B&O factory guided tour at Struer upcoming August.

Mikipidia wrote:

Btw maybe silly question, but could one sort of make one of these half way filters by measuring widely (like how the manual tells you to do for wide mode) in the narrow mode and vice versa or taking a bunch of narrow measurements and combining them in to a filter while the speakers play in wide mode?

It’s still somewhat static, but could that be a half way between both modes?

Hi,

I'm not sure that I understand the question, but you seem to be mixing up the ARC measurements that are done in the listening room with the individual loudspeaker driver measurements that we do in the Cube.

We only check the "total" output of the loudspeaker (using all 18 drivers at once, for example) to verify that the sum of the individual measurements produces the directivity result we expect.

However, the 18 individual driver measurements are done one at a time - they have to be. We don't even assume that the loudspeaker is symmetrical - we measure the left and the right drivers to make sure that this is, in fact, true.

Does that answer your question? Or have I misunderstood?

Cheers

-geoff

PLEASE READ before sending me a Personal Message.

If you have questions about or problems with B&O equipment, these should be directed through your dealer and/or B&O's Customer Service department.

I cannot be a "short circuit", bypassing these communication channels.

Thanks
-geoff
Sorry for not being clear, my question was more inregards to the bl50’s. They sound quite different in wide vs narrow mode and the way you measure them in for both situations varies drastically. So what i guess what i was trying to ask is if we would reach this sort of middlepoint if:

we were to calibrate the bl50’s in narrow mode, in 3 different positions( 3 times when you move the mic 3 times with in ~30cm), then combine those filters and have them play in wide?

Or vice versa, where you have the speakers calibrate them in narrow mode, but put the mic in 3 different positions, like you would when setting them up in the wide calibration (one mic position per one seating spot), and then use that filter for narrow mode?

I know it’s a bit odd, and let me know if it makes sense?! I have one filter setup in wide mode calibration where i calibrated them in like it says to do in narrow mode(with in that virtual box around your head at ~30cm appart) and that sounds more accurate to me than when it’s done along 3 positions along the couch. I also happen to like the sort of airy feeling wide mode give you on the 50’s compared to narrow mode with the same measurement place and method. Either way iam a happy camper 😁

A big thank you to Geoff for such a detailed response. I did not expect that. Whilst I love your analagy with gearboxes I immediately thought of the DAF Variomatic. That didn't help.

So my understanding is that a proportional variance would not be possible but many many "inbetween" positions would, in theory, bar the fact every one would need a new filter? 

That does make sense to me and my original "simple software update" comment does seem a tad ignorant now. 

But I'll stick my neck on the line and predict that in time B&O do something akin to this is the future? 

I'll be 1st in the line for the royalties? :)

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