Paul W wrote:

They couldn't fit a Blu-Ray ripper Chris, severe copyright issues with Hollywood there.

Guys, it's time to move on with these day dreams of old B&O systems. If you research why Tue Montani dropped the old stuff 9000, 3200, there answer is in my reports online, back then, they weren't selling. This forum is far too tiny to represent a market for B&O. You guys really must wake up that everything has changed. The DNA of B&O is genetically modified now as the old guys have died, probably the majority pf the old B&O staff have died. It's not the company that you remember. It's a new era. It's like comparing what your Great Grandad once died to a guy in his 30s. Far far different. 

Times have moved on, and so must you. Don't rely on people and companies to do things and then be disappointed. Instead, by creative and use your own skills to create.

😁🤒

StUrrock wrote:

Playdrv4me wrote:

TWG wrote:

I'm not only looking to B&O regarding audio equipment as other manufacturers do offer some great products, too.

If you see the raise of passion for audio quality again (e.g. Sony with its High Resolution Audio systems or Pioneer, Teac, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha network streamers etc.) I think that now it is especially a good time to develop an audio system. Not some half finished bad looking thing like the Beosound Moment, no, they need something with David Lewis style, class and substance that is reliable and of high quality!

Even Sony remembers that "Made in China" is not the holy grail and you find the proud "Made in Japan" sign even advertised on technology gadgets like the BSP-60 (which is a very nice companion by the way!).
They list "Made in Japan" as you can see on the (german) site, too:
link

Have a look at the Sony HAP-Z1es. Built like a tank, easy, FAST operation, accompanied by a working(!) app on a tablet (iOS, Android). No computer required.
http://www.sony.com/electronics/audio-components/hap-z1es

Or the Astell & Kern mobile highend players...
there are enough signs that the manufacturers invest into quality audio again and I love it! We had too much cheap plastic crap that didn't work as expected and this new audio quality wave is a welcome refreshment!


Imagine a Beosound 3000 Bluray-Player system, a Beosound 9000 with CD/WAV/MP3/Bluetooth/DLNA/Airplay/WISA or a Beocenter 9500 where you can hide your phone under a motorised tray etc.
There are endless possibilities to make a statement in the market.

But Bang & Olufsen should NOT again deliver a Made in China *** like the Beosound 3 that'll die unbelievable early!
There should still be a FREE repair program for all Beosound 3 owners! :-)

So, yes, B&O should keep going and deliver an audio system that impresses, make a statement with great design and very high quality and it should be reliable again and work for 30 years like the old classics do (with servicing)!

Applause!!

Look. Here's the harsh reality about audio in 2015. The middle ground that B&O used to occupy in the 1970s, 80s and 90s simply no longer exists. The existence of portable media formats that can reside on a computer chip the size of your finger nail mean that audio has uniquely gone in two separate directions... 

"Lifestyle" electronics like bluetooth portable speakers, phones, and even the rapidly dying MP3 player... Consider the "high end" of this "lifestyle" category to be things like the Beoplay A9.

Then, after Lifestyle electronics you jump to truly *high end* audio with separates (it's very odd to me that there are people who think separates systems are "ugly" but to each their own)... i.e. McIntosh, Linn, Naim, NAD, B&W, Wilson Audio, Magico, Martin Logan, ARCAM and on and on. Many of these companies are WELL known for building their products to ultra high standards in their respective countries, or at least for having a top of the line series which is made in their respective countries.

As TWG mentioned, Sony has recently re-entered the high end fray with the HAP players, the ultra high end SS-AR1 and AR2 speakers and various other devices. 

So the truth is that if B&O really want to enter a market with a considerable amount of profit and the ability to create truly high end audio systems again, this market is where it's going to be. I for one would be ecstatic to see another system like the 7000, but modernized (Think NAD M12 Preamp and M22 amp, and take it to another level in whatever way B&O can). No harm in still including a high quality compact disc/UHD bluray/SACD whatever transport at this juncture either. Then for link room type situations you can take the Devialet example and run with that. A simple but extremely elegant system that can run in a link room *or* integration with PLAY line devices for linked rooms, they're already on track for this. Then create beautiful apps which can run all of this equipment from industry standard tablets, rather than wasting resources and costs on repurposing cheap ass Android tablet components in a pretty box. 

Thing is, I've had everything. BeoLab 5s, B&W 802 Diamonds, B&W Nautilus 803, McIntosh MC601 amplifiers, MAC6700 receiver, D100 preamp, C2300 preamp, Pioneer, JBL, almost every modern B&O speaker... yada yada yada... Do you know what the one system is that never leaves? Perhaps because I don't feel the resale would be worth it, or perhaps moreso because the performance still astonishes me to this day...

Our BeoLab Penta IIIs and Beocenter 9500. In almost every way, these two are almost everything a person could ask for. The Pentas often put other speakers costing thousands more, INCLUDING in some aspects the BeoLab 5s to shame. They're beautiful, the whole system is pure sex appeal. But the thing is, this system is what "lifestyle" electronics looked like in the 1980s/90s. This category is GONE. People have either moved UPmarket to separates or DOWNmarket to the lifestyle type systems I mentioned above. B&O is staring down the barrel at a real opportunity here. Why do you think the PLAY line has been so successful? They should keep fostering PLAY for the "low end" of the lifestyle crowd, and go back to the drawing board with their OWN spin on separates for the "high end" crowd. 

Dare I say, for the "high end" crowd another thing that may be a tough pill to swallow is that perhaps it's time to leave powered speakers behind. Who else is doing this with any measure of success anymore? I can name ONE manufacturer off the top of my head and no one even thinks about them in any real serious conversation about high end audio, and that's Meridian. But Meridian is a MUCH smaller outfit than B&O in general, and has never gone after all the markets that B&O has. Yet on the flip side of this argument, companies like Rowland and NAD have proven that customers, almost amusingly, WILL buy Class D or ICEPower powered standalone amps! Aside from my Pentas, the only other speaker system that has left a permanent impression on me is the B&W Diamond series. And not even the biggest ones, I would like to own a pair of B&W 804 Diamonds at some point as they just do everything right for me and are one of the few that exceed my Pentas in *most* categories. The 802 Diamonds were just too damn big, bulky, and expensive. The performance/price ratio just wasn't there. Now that the Diamond D3 is out (and they're freaking gorgeous), the D2 Diamonds will get even cheaper... But I digress... B&O needs to change up their game and stop playing around with this Made in China crap UNLESS it's in the PLAY line where that is acceptable. Otherwise, there's not a lot of future for the company, I am sorry to say.

One of the best, most thought provoking posts, I have read on this forum for a long time thank you.

You are quite welcome :) I enjoy these discussions. 

"It's not the company you remember" 

Of course times change, and as people grow old the staff working at a company change over time.

But the essential things that doesn't change are;

1- Music and enjoying music

2- Designing a product that is both beautiful and functional and onorthodox

Todays' staff at B&O therefore have to deal with more or less the same essentials as the old staff did. And despite all the moaning here, they still come up with some nice designs. Technical changes always did take place, in the old days there were revolutions like going from Vinyl to CD's, that didn't prevent the invention of an icon like the BS 9000. Don't forget that B&O products in the old days did not always live up to the partly imaginary superhigh standards that are expected at this forum. How good were the speakers in the 60's and 70's? How special and superb were most of the beomasters back then? Some were, but most were just doing their job, without always being so cutting edge like some think they were. Don't forget that a much appraised beocenter 9500 was a sort of end-stage of years of upgrading and gradual change of the essential Jensen design. And what did they do? The stripped it down to the 9300...Like what they did going from beogram 4000 to 4002. And the later turntables from the now-so-famous stacking systems weren't so good too, and certainly didn't live up to the standards set by a 4000, or 8000.

It wasn't all sunshine in the old days, when the old B&O still was around... 

 

I think they have it right - the trend these days is to conceal everything and have speakers and TVs on display - the Moment and Essence are beautiful in their own right and perfect for the modern day.

I cant remember the last time I saw a lifestyle magazine featuring a stack system in an interior - not that that's wrong, just that tastes and fashions have changed and B&O have taken that onboard. Solid state products are bound to last much longer and be more reliable - so innovation will be key to keep people upgrading - difficult to predict what the future will bring.

Does a product have to state where it is made? why not just take off the Made in China sticker and replace it with "by appointment to the royal danish court" ? Some of the magic, for me at least, of B&O was the fact that it was made in Denmark - so it seemed special. 

I agree that not all of the old stuff was particularly brilliant or even sounded that good, but it had character and charm and you felt you were buying something rather special.

I think they have it right - the trend these days is to conceal everything and have speakers and TVs on display - the Moment and Essence are beautiful in their own right and perfect for the modern day.

I cant remember the last time I saw a lifestyle magazine featuring a stack system in an interior - not that that's wrong, just that tastes and fashions have changed and B&O have taken that onboard. Solid state products are bound to last much longer and be more reliable - so innovation will be key to keep people upgrading - difficult to predict what the future will bring.

Does a product have to state where it is made? why not just take off the Made in China sticker and replace it with "by appointment to the royal danish court" ? Some of the magic, for me at least, of B&O was the fact that it was made in Denmark - so it seemed special. 

I agree that not all of the old stuff was particularly brilliant or even sounded that good, but it had character and charm and you felt you were buying something rather special.

I could have recently spent less on a more technically advanced camera made in China. Thankfully I spent more on a beautiful piece of engineering, that's still made in Germany.

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'Made in Germany' isn't anymore, what it used to be - as you probably are aware of 😒

MM

I think you are very much right MM when it comes to huge factories like VW (for example), but smaller productions - almost manufacture like - as Leica are still good I believe from the perspective of the workforce profile. If that's what you've meant.

Either way, Chris: beauty! I bet it is also a superb tactile feeling. *dreamy*

As long as there is no special software....for testers!

MM

AnalogPlanet wrote:

I think you are very much right MM when it comes to huge factories like VW (for example), but smaller productions - almost manufacture like - as Leica are still good I believe from the perspective of the workforce profile. If that's what you've meant.

Either way, Chris: beauty! I bet it is also a superb tactile feeling. *dreamy*

It does thanks.

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But then again, the iPhone isn't bad either

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The fact is, there are still some European countries that make heritage goods that are still worth buying into. Bang and O,unseen is still one of them, but us getting less so. I had one of the first Walkmans and it had Made in Japan proudly written on it. And I was proud it did, it was fantastic.

Leica ironically also have a rebadged range of Panasonic's as their cheaper range, as part of their lens deal. But they still have a core of German made cameras, the M range which goes back to the 60's I think. And they are still selling very well.

Could Bang and Olufsen do this and how. Porsche do it, Rolex do it, Omega Leica etc etc etc