I can only speak for the USA.  People here don't have stereos anymore.  They have and want "home theaters".  The 2 channel HiFi is now a niche market with A/V integration and surround sound being the desired market. 

Now I agree that B&O should remain true to its values with quality and beauty high on the priority list.  To move units in the US, though, they need to make their products play nice with other companies.  They need to incorporate the industry standards for connections.  Hooking up their speakers or TVs to other companies products is, simply put, a major PITA.  I'd like to see them stay exclusive, but open up their products to only Hi end A/V installers so that more of the USA could experience B&O.  I'm not talking Best Buy or other mass electronics stores, but independent high end A/V installers. 

To summarize, they need to integrate better with other brands and open up their product outside of the boutiques to other sellers.

TripEnglish wrote:

Pestria, 

Some good points, but a bit off base on a few items. 

1. Lifestyle is key. Brands like Apple, Bang & Olufsen, Ralph Lauren, etc. keep a grasp on their scope by planning the "lifestyle." This term is often misinterpreted as market-speak by outsiders, but is actually a relatively technical term for how development is guided and technologies adapted into concepts. The application of technologies is something that is always wildly out of hand in many Asian technology companies as they focus primarily on the fresh and the novel. We have to consider the application of these technologies in terms of a long-lasting products and satisfying experiences. 

2. It's a bit simplistic to think that we or any other very high-end company is marketing to footballers and lottery winners. We are, however, marketing to the genuinely wealthy and to be a true client one must be of certain means. That's not to say there aren't plenty of opportunities for ownership at a variety of price-points, but our core concept is playing to a very affluent clientele and their unique needs and demands. 

3. I think it's generally the "fans" who misunderstand who the client truly is. The vast majority of opinions expressed on these types of forums (not just BeoWorld and its above-average denizens) represent the perspective of the fan and not usually the core client. Obviously the majority of people on these sites may own B&O kit, but their needs and desires represent a very small portion of the client base. Our clients prefer stability over novelty and are generally not concerned with pricing to the extent that a reading of these forums would lead you to believe. Demands for wireless items, iPhone apps, etc. don't figure into our core client's needs, whereas things like video matrixing, integration and control of home automation systems, and overall customer support figure highly.

4. As for a few of your points, I'm not sure what you mean by making the speaker range more accessible. You can use any of our speakers with third party systems with a few cheap adaptors at most. If you mean price... well, you're probably barking up the wrong tree.

5. And I'd take another look at the BeoSound 5. The AppleTV represents more user frustration and lack of capability than almost any other media center. To borrow a phrase, "the juice isn't worth the squeeze." For multiple users it's an impossibility, it can't hold a serious media collection without needing to stream (which requires a switched-on computer and grinds network speed to a crawl) and also requires an actual TV in the room. Add to that the fact that blind navigation is essentially impossible and you've got a product that's perfect for a college dorm room, but doesn't stand a chance in a demanding client's home.

 

Overall, though I think you're spot on with the need to focus on user interface, upgrade paths, etc. 

 

Trip, first of all, I'm glad we more or less both agree on what basically the next beo remote should be capable of as mentioned earlier in this thread. 

1. Yes B&O is, as you mention, definitely a lifestyle product.

2. Sorry but right now B&O is catering only to a very wealthy clientele and with products like BV9 and BV7, which are extremely expensive when bought new. These products are slowly killing B&O. No company can afford the continuous investment in new products with such a small client base unless you double the prices of these product today in order to cover that expense.
I would love to buy a Beovision but due to unavailability of a 'decent' priced B&O tv (in North America), I had to resort to buying elsewhere.
Hope that at one point in time the BV8-40 or BV10 will be available in North America as both (based on the european prices) are within my budget.
I am glad that B&O finally is recognizing the fact they're missing out on a big market share and making an effort on providing a better value price level for some of its newer products. Do not forget a lot of those now 'small' clients, will have no second thoughts upgrading to extra or more expensive equipment later on in their lives and will provide a solid client base in the future. Basic economics and planning for the future ....

 The beo5 remote and beolabs are excellent value for example.

3. LOL, yes but those 'fans' are necessary to push a now stagnant company to innovate and produce new items in order to bring our beloved company to new heights. B&O can reinvent itself as the high end electronics innovator it once was, but they will loose the battle by not being open to new ideas .....Even your client base will have more and better options available the longer it takes B&O to catch up. 
A lot more people have been growing up with tech and are coming to an age they have the money available to invest in the product that can provide the functionality they want. 

4. I tried the apple tv, but decided for the mac mini with plex instead. I do agree it takes some doing and time to set it up properly and would love to have a B&O solution that is equally capable and performant and with a real nice interface (I run the alaska skin for plex which is very nice)....sadly B&O is nowhere near marketing anything like it, soon..... Again another loss of market share....

Wow! what a lot to think about, it is hard to know where to start so all I can do is make a few observation.

If we are considering the survival of B&O it is first important to decide what B&O means. For me it is a company that produces high quality crafted goods, aesthetically designed and of good technical performance, the Beolit range illustrated this very well but this may no longer be relevant.

 Maybe the whole client base has changed and the company should evolve to meet this change. If B&O succeeds in this is it still the same company? It clearly is to the owners but do the clients see it this way? 

It would certainly not be the same company that attracted me in the first place, with stylish high quality radio reproducers. It has already moved away from the Beolit  and Beomaster sets that I remember to something different. They no longer think in terms a simple quality radio but have beeen carried on the evolutionary flow into a very different field.Software is now the essence. Craftmanship that is obvious and tangible to the owner plays a smaller part. There are people who want this quality and design and consider it as a piece of sculpture as well as a functional item.

With this in mind it seems to me that the first point should be a competent marketing study based on a niche market. This should consider what the customers need and how this interacts with what they want, not necessarily the same things. This should be viewed in the light of the company's capabilities.

There have also been considerations about "Made in Denmark". As an outsider, I think this can only have relevance to keeping a skill base in the country but not inherently to the quality of the product. If the out-sourced items meet the specifications with no reservations then as a user of the final item I don't mind. However it is not easy to specify the details of fine craftsmanship, so there is often an attitude by manufacturers that " it does the job and is cheaper so we will accept it".

The craftsmanship of some of the ancient Jade carvings from the Orient is incredible, so the quality of workmanship is available elsewhere. For a more recent illustration, I have owned and used Contax cameras and also a Kiev produced by Russia. For producing pictures I found it difficult to choose which was better. However the physical experrience of handling the cameras left no doubt that the original camera was much more satisfying. It is not obvious though that this can also be acheived at the low price so out-sourcing is not so simple.

I regret my contribution is a bit disjointed and rambling. However the possibility that financial constraints might cause the decline of a company I respect saddens me and it has helped me to clear my thoughts a bit.

Andreas,

You were not too stong in your comments and I understand why you feel a Rolex watch is worth the money. I understand your agument but for me a Rolex is meaningless. I don't want an a work of art on my wrist - I just want to tell the time.

But I understand why others - including you - feel differently. So for me, B&O equipment is pretty good. Not brilliant, but pretty good and I think it is worth the money to those that appreciate that a TV/loudspeaker is more than its component parts. I know this makes no sense, but that's the point with "luxury" goods. If it was not, everyone would buy the  cheapest from Walmart."

This thread was started by Trip. His most recent post included this point:

"I think it's generally the "fans" who misunderstand who the client truly is. The vast majority of opinions expressed on these types of forums (not just BeoWorld and its above-average denizens) represent the perspective of the fan and not usually the core client. Obviously the majority of people on these sites may own B&O kit, but their needs and desires represent a very small portion of the client base..."

I think he has exactly the right answer. Like it or not, the people that keep B&O - and I suggest Rolex - in business don't care for our arguments and opinions. They don't care about the latest technologies. They want are buying a brand. In the case of Rolex its the year's of tradition. For B&O its the delivery of a system that works when they press the button and the knowledge you are buying something "different".

I - and it suspect you - are not one of those customers. But we should not think that we are typical.

Hardwriter wrote:

Andreas,

You were not too stong in your comments and I understand why you feel a Rolex watch is worth the money. I understand your agument but for me a Rolex is meaningless. I don't want an a work of art on my wrist - I just want to tell the time.

This makes no sense to me....

What do you want? Rolex consisting of "angel dust" or "magic" inside?! If an in-house made movement, and a casing made in-house of a highly specialized grade of steel (904L),  at a price of roughly 4000 euro and the movement being COSC grade and certified is not enough and is a "not too strong comment", what should Rolex put out? 

A rebranded Panasonic 50" panel with a upgraded videoprocessor and a fancy case for 23.000 euro is hardly comparable to Rolex. I can't get a grip on why you pulled Rolex into this discussion, except for the thrill of getting an argument. 

Andreas,

No, not to start an argument. Just to point out that everyone has a different perspective on value.

Chris

dilznik wrote:

This is... um... this is just crazy.  So you're saying B&O *needs* to be expensive?  They shouldn't worry about increasing consumer base and profit margins?  They should just, you know, be expensive?  Maybe I'm not getting what you're trying to say here.

So do you think everything is just fine, all their products are fine, the price/quality ratio is fine, the company is on the right track, that sort of thing?

You should be CEO of B&O. SO LET'S see WHAT YOU CAN DO?? RUIN THE WHOLE LONG HISTORY AND FAME OF B&O by cheap product, low quality product, just like chinese product? hahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Why can another audio firm sale a turntable with price $50.000, hiend speaker system 80.000 - $1.000.000, .... Do they need the production in China and third country, to cut cost? and how large of their customer is?

Hardwriter wrote:

This thread was started by Trip. His most recent post included this point:

"I think it's generally the "fans" who misunderstand who the client truly is. The vast majority of opinions expressed on these types of forums (not just BeoWorld and its above-average denizens) represent the perspective of the fan and not usually the core client. Obviously the majority of people on these sites may own B&O kit, but their needs and desires represent a very small portion of the client base..."

I think he has exactly the right answer. Like it or not, the people that keep B&O - and I suggest Rolex - in business don't care for our arguments and opinions. They don't care about the latest technologies. They want are buying a brand. In the case of Rolex its the year's of tradition. For B&O its the delivery of a system that works when they press the button and the knowledge you are buying something "different".

I - and it suspect you - are not one of those customers. But we should not think that we are typical.

Hardwriter, 

Good to see that someone takes this comment seriously and doesn't take offense at it. It seems that there are implications of "classism" in points like these, but none are intended. It's not a value judgement, just my assessment as a long standing shop owner. I certainly meet many clients with points of view similar to the majority expressed here, but their budgets are generally modest (between $2k - $7k) and require a disproportionate amount of "management" per dollar spent versus the core clientele whose projects range from around $35k to well into the hundreds of thousands. As a shop owner, if I relied on increasing the volume of "fans," I would have to increase my staff and assume overhead and obliterate my margins in project management. Likewise my cost of origination would be significantly higher (i.e. the effort expended on signing a $7k deals isn't much less than a $100k deal, yet I'd have to invest it about 15 times more in originating the same gross turnover).

So I'm not just fussing, but when I read things like BeoVision 7s & 9s and their high prices are slowly killing us, I can't take it seriously. It has no factual basis and is more or less the opposite of the actual case. BeoVision 7s move briskly and make large scale projects incredibly simple for both me and my clients.

You have to understand, though, that since our shops are largely independently owned franchises, the corporate entity has very little control over the caliber of the dealer. Their best chance at increasing turnover is to release a lower priced, somewhat compromised products to attract the top-end of retail shoppers. Not a terrible strategy, but a lot more turnover could be generated by bringing all dealers up to spec with better training and increased product offerings from complimentary 3rd parties. Shops that have learned to insinuate themselves into the design/architect community and pursue "projects" rather than "sales" have found success even in lean times. Those dealers that still chase the "sale" have found clients less willing to part with their money and expectations generally out of line with the state of technology. That's not to say there's no such thing as a talented salesperson who doesn't understand Lutron and other home systems, it's just to say that person is less and less relevant in the industry as a whole. 

If it's your bottom line, you have to look at it this way. Otherwise you're just

Giang Nguyen wrote:

You should be CEO of B&O. SO LET'S see WHAT YOU CAN DO?? RUIN THE WHOLE LONG HISTORY AND FAME OF B&O by cheap product, low quality product, just like chinese product? hahahahahahahahahahahahahah.

Why can another audio firm sale a turntable with price $50.000, hiend speaker system 80.000 - $1.000.000, .... Do they need the production in China and third country, to cut cost? and how large of their customer is?

You didn't answer my questions.  Is everything fine with B&O in your opinion?

TripEnglish wrote:

I certainly meet many clients with points of view similar to the majority expressed here, but their budgets are generally modest (between $2k - $7k) and require a disproportionate amount of "management" per dollar spent versus the core clientele whose projects range from around $35k to well into the hundreds of thousands.

The modest budgeted people are probably less likely to throw money at a problem.  Just saying...

As a shop owner, if I relied on increasing the volume of "fans," I would have to increase my staff and assume overhead and obliterate my margins in project management. Likewise my cost of origination would be significantly higher (i.e. the effort expended on signing a $7k deals isn't much less than a $100k deal, yet I'd have to invest it about 15 times more in originating the same gross turnover).

This wouldn't, however, be the case if there was a B&O online channel as well as other retail channels selling that "beginners" product.  You can't go into Best Buy and get a Mac Pro or an X-Serve.  But you can get them on Apple's site or at an Apple store.  You can, however, get all the iPods and iMacs you want down at Best Buy.  The Mac Pro is still a phenomenal computer, with its quality in no way undermined by the fact that a no armed homeless person could afford an iPod Shuffle.

If there were some entry level products that people might want, maybe some decent computer speakers for $500, a home programmable Beo5 that worked with everything, stuff like that, which people could buy elsewhere (like the A8's in the Apple Stores... how many of those do they sell?) that would help the company's bottom line then people could still goto the proper stores for the "real" kit and B&O would make more money, which means more R&D, which means more quality products.  Build the Beo5 in Korea, build the BL5 in DK.

The arguments I've seen here about exclusivity and the product needs to remain expensive and built in DK (thus accomplishing nothing but cutting into profit margins as proven by that other thread listing the products made in DK... if you can't tell then what's the point?) are both hollow and shallow.  The sort of arguments made by people who would by a car or a guitar based on how it looks.  And we all know what kinds of people those are.

In the end B&O is a company that worries about profits and not going out of business like every other company.