B&O target customers are affluent perhaps the top 5% of consumers that can easily afford bno and are are not usually that technically minded or enthusiasts all most customers want is quality style and image.

With a growing wealthy class worldwide things still look quite good for a company that uses a large franchise dealer network .

They also have a very loyal home market in denmark and scandinavia.

There is very little chance they will integrate there products with other manufacturers unless forced to do so like blueray,a bno universal remote would be superb, there is a great market for such a product but i doubt it will happen.

also a lot of products are now way past there sell by date and will needed to be deleted bl6000,bl4,bs3,hdr2,bs1 and replaced lets hope in the near future more new products arrive.

dilznik wrote:

cooldude wrote:

If B&O made an Iphone they would not want to sell 50 billion of them either and certainly not market them at a 299$ consumer price either.
So if B&O would market it's own customized iphone at $2000 you still would pay that price for a product that comes of the same chinese assembly line ? wow

I have no problem with apple products and I am a mac user myself. 

I, personally, think they should.  They should design good quality, good looking products at a low price point with large profit margins and sell them in every store with an electronics section.  They should build something they can sell for twice what it cost to make that everyone wants and can buy.  If they do this then they will make money and we won't have to worry about them going under.  Consumers will buy the product, figure out how good it is, and maybe check the next level of product, which could be a nice looking, nice sounding, nicely designed bookshelf system for $1500 or whatever's reasonable.  Maybe then that person thinks "wow, this is great" and moves up.  That's how they got me.  First, A8 headphones, then a Century, then upwards from there.  You hook a 20 year old college student with a $600 computer speaker system that smokes anything else at that price point (the Bose Companion 5, for example... surely they can make something better than that for the same price) and then maybe in a few years when that guy has a job he'll get a BS4 or something.

Profit margins and repeat customers keep companies in business.  If they're in business they'll keep making the stuff we like.  If they're not, they won't.

Somehow I think serenata when I read this ........  rebadging stuff is something they tried and failed miserably.

dilznik wrote:

cooldude wrote:

If B&O made an Iphone they would not want to sell 50 billion of them either and certainly not market them at a 299$ consumer price either.
So if B&O would market it's own customized iphone at $2000 you still would pay that price for a product that comes of the same chinese assembly line ? wow

I have no problem with apple products and I am a mac user myself. 

I, personally, think they should.  They should design good quality, good looking products at a low price point with large profit margins and sell them in every store with an electronics section.  They should build something they can sell for twice what it cost to make that everyone wants and can buy.  If they do this then they will make money and we won't have to worry about them going under.  Consumers will buy the product, figure out how good it is, and maybe check the next level of product, which could be a nice looking, nice sounding, nicely designed bookshelf system for $1500 or whatever's reasonable.  Maybe then that person thinks "wow, this is great" and moves up.  That's how they got me.  First, A8 headphones, then a Century, then upwards from there.  You hook a 20 year old college student with a $600 computer speaker system that smokes anything else at that price point (the Bose Companion 5, for example... surely they can make something better than that for the same price) and then maybe in a few years when that guy has a job he'll get a BS4 or something.

Profit margins and repeat customers keep companies in business.  If they're in business they'll keep making the stuff we like.  If they're not, they won't.

Somehow I think serenata when I read this ........  rebadging stuff is something they tried and failed miserably.

I haven't read the whole thread in detail - so apologies if any these points have been made elsewhere.

Assuming B&O needs saving, I would advocate the following

1. Immediately fire anyone connected with business who uses the words or phrases like Lifestyle, Aspirational or Ownership Experience.  (sorry Lee!)

2. Understand and decide who your customers are - and understand their needs.  

3. Fire anyone who answers 'Footballers', 'Film Stars' or 'Lottery Winners' to the point above.

4. The answer to 2 should be 'Anyone who  appreciates outstanding quality in functionality and form... which will last for years and represent excellent value for money'

5. The answer to 2 will not be 'Anyone who wants the latest gadget, fad, craze or wants to keep up with Joneses'//

6. To achieve the above  B&O must concentrate on areas of genuine excellence - user interface, build quality and seamless integration - and above all Value for Money.

7. The basic system should last for years - technologies likely to change should be modular, be replacable/updatable, be hidden and out sourced.

8. Anything visible should be B&O branded.

9. Did I mention firing anyone uttering 'Lifestyle'?

...

In terms of specifics now, I would advocate:

1. Rationalising the TV line up - far too many systems/modules

2. Drop telephones and MP3 players - maybe licensing market leading technologies as appropriate.

3. Make the speaker range as accessible as possible to non B&O users.

4. Sort out the mess around the multimedia systems - the Beosystem 5 is a 'nearly' product but doesn't offer sufficient advantage over ATV etc.

One final thought.....I've seen a few posters advocating Apple B&O - why on earth would they want to do that? 

Pestria, 

Some good points, but a bit off base on a few items. 

1. Lifestyle is key. Brands like Apple, Bang & Olufsen, Ralph Lauren, etc. keep a grasp on their scope by planning the "lifestyle." This term is often misinterpreted as market-speak by outsiders, but is actually a relatively technical term for how development is guided and technologies adapted into concepts. The application of technologies is something that is always wildly out of hand in many Asian technology companies as they focus primarily on the fresh and the novel. We have to consider the application of these technologies in terms of a long-lasting products and satisfying experiences. 

2. It's a bit simplistic to think that we or any other very high-end company is marketing to footballers and lottery winners. We are, however, marketing to the genuinely wealthy and to be a true client one must be of certain means. That's not to say there aren't plenty of opportunities for ownership at a variety of price-points, but our core concept is playing to a very affluent clientele and their unique needs and demands. 

3. I think it's generally the "fans" who misunderstand who the client truly is. The vast majority of opinions expressed on these types of forums (not just BeoWorld and its above-average denizens) represent the perspective of the fan and not usually the core client. Obviously the majority of people on these sites may own B&O kit, but their needs and desires represent a very small portion of the client base. Our clients prefer stability over novelty and are generally not concerned with pricing to the extent that a reading of these forums would lead you to believe. Demands for wireless items, iPhone apps, etc. don't figure into our core client's needs, whereas things like video matrixing, integration and control of home automation systems, and overall customer support figure highly.

4. As for a few of your points, I'm not sure what you mean by making the speaker range more accessible. You can use any of our speakers with third party systems with a few cheap adaptors at most. If you mean price... well, you're probably barking up the wrong tree.

5. And I'd take another look at the BeoSound 5. The AppleTV represents more user frustration and lack of capability than almost any other media center. To borrow a phrase, "the juice isn't worth the squeeze." For multiple users it's an impossibility, it can't hold a serious media collection without needing to stream (which requires a switched-on computer and grinds network speed to a crawl) and also requires an actual TV in the room. Add to that the fact that blind navigation is essentially impossible and you've got a product that's perfect for a college dorm room, but doesn't stand a chance in a demanding client's home.

Overall, though I think you're spot on with the need to focus on user interface, upgrade paths, etc. 

Hi Andreas (bayerische),

This risks wandering off the thread but I respond to your question. I assume you use the Rolex avatar because you admire the product or company. They - like B&O - are premium priced but some people are prepared to pay for that. Others aren't. That does not mean that Rolex has its pricing wrong. Same goes for B&O.

Have a good weekend.

Hardwriter wrote:

Hi Andreas (bayerische),

This risks wandering off the thread but I respond to your question. I assume you use the Rolex avatar because you admire the product or company. They - like B&O - are premium priced but some people are prepared to pay for that. Others aren't. That does not mean that Rolex has its pricing wrong. Same goes for B&O.

Have a good weekend.

Rolex does not fill it's innards with components (except the mainspring on older models, nivarex) from cheap manufacturers such as Casio, Timex, Swatch etc... I'm pretty sure the Rolex customer base would not swallow Rolex to use a ETA or Valjoux movement. (B&O does this)

Beo uses rather non fancy parts, except for some trim, with TV's it's kind of like a Rolex with a 18K case, that's overkill, for sure, but a stainless steel Rolex, can't be compared to B&O, and when you think of it neither can a 18K gold one, since the innards is a genuine in house made movement. B&O uses parts from all over the world, and most parts arrives at B&O ready for "plug-in". At Rolex you need to be a master watch maker, using your years and years of training and knowledge to put the watch together.

I'm not sure you have ever owned a Rolex, but I highly recommend it, at the price they are offered they are superb, if you haven't already put one on your wrist, I'm hard to believe it will leave there. 😂

I wish you a good weekend too, as I kinda understand what your point is, but still I can't swallow it without some debate, as I think you are wrong regarding Rolex. Audi... now there's something to argue about... A Skoda in WV clothes??? 😁 

Andreas, I'd recommend you pay a visit to the factories in Struer and watch testing, machining, and final assembly. I doubt you'd have the same opinion of what goes into a B&O product. It's a stunning operation with hand craftsmanship that bests any metal-works in the world. And as others who have spent time on "the farm" can attest, you'll be surprised what else we make there! If you're the type of person to admire house made movement, I think you'll look at us with a bit more admiration for what goes into our products. You'll probably also look at some performance car manufacturers with a knowing smile. 😕

Considering that all electronics are, to some extent, drawn from the parts bin of the world, the amount of our own design, craftsmanship, and actual fabrication is well beyond any other electronics maker, including the high-end speaker manufacturers who take such pride in their cabinets. 

I haven't read the entire thread - it's damn long. I will get there sometime tomorrow afternoon ...

Anyway, you're right that Lewis (and the people surrounding him) seems to hate computers.  Further, it seems that the upperhand in integration they used to have with  (few(er)) boxes have vanished completely.

If they took some cluesfrom Apple, or even better, depending on your viewpoint: From Logitech (both with regards to the Squeezebox and their remotes), we would be somewhere. I can't for the life of me see why the BS5 should be wired, and with no less than three wires.

Further proof that Lewis and co really doesn't like computers is how it's impossible to add your own radiostation urls, and even podcasts are a no-no.

Such a rigid system, with no means of streaming, unless you want to do it via the analogue wi-fi receivers (!!!) are at least 8 or 10 years behind the curve.

Sure, it's nice to touch the BS5, but as you say, people don't have stereos as such these days.

Personally, I have given up on ever buying a BS5 unless some extreme revisions and firmware updates are showing up. I am buying the Avi ADM9.1 active speakers (with a D/A converter on board) and will use a small headless wireless NAS (a Fit-PC2i) to feed those speakers and control thelot with a Squeezebox controller. In practice all I'll see are the speakers (no way around that) and the Controller in my hand. I can't even buy a system close to that from B&O even if money were no object.Most of their stuff will have to either be controlled via a telly or directly  by moving up to it. Yes, again, the BS5 is nice to look at, but really, it's less practical than (ugh!) an iPod touch controlling a headless Mac Mini (and I don't want to own anything Apple (anymore)).

Telly-wise, well I considered the BV10, but decided against it. I won't pay DKK7000 for a non-glossy screen out of principle. I have decided to buy a cheaper and simpler telly with digital  (audio) out and feed it to my speakers.

The problem I see with B&O these days, except for them being behind the curve, is that it takes so many boxes to have anything play nice with anything else - especially non-B&O stuff. It's so unflexible.

Sure you (Trip) believe that all that B&O are making money off, and SHOULD be making money off, are custom installs, but if that were true, I can't see why they should even have so many stores and such a variety of products. If custom installs is the only place to earn some money, they should do away with even more dealers, and do away with 4/5ths of their product range. However, I think that would kill them here in Denmark, and if so, they'd be completely dead within a year.

/rant

-----------------

Edit: Nevermind. I just noticed how old this thread was and nothing has really happened since. Sure, the BV10 came out, a tv that spec-wise and integration-wise is trailing behind, but that's basically it.  Damn it, the new platform they want to use across the board better result in some new thinking as well, and not just be a penny-pinching move, thinking they can save themselves alone by saving money .

TripEnglish wrote:

Andreas, I'd recommend you pay a visit to the factories in Struer and watch testing, machining, and final assembly. I doubt you'd have the same opinion of what goes into a B&O product. It's a stunning operation with hand craftsmanship that bests any metal-works in the world. And as others who have spent time on "the farm" can attest, you'll be surprised what else we make there! If you're the type of person to admire house made movement, I think you'll look at us with a bit more admiration for what goes into our products. You'll probably also look at some performance car manufacturers with a knowing smile. 😕

Considering that all electronics are, to some extent, drawn from the parts bin of the world, the amount of our own design, craftsmanship, and actual fabrication is well beyond any other electronics maker, including the high-end speaker manufacturers who take such pride in their cabinets. 

Trip, I was a bit harsh, I know, and standardized my thoughts too much. I know that the components in most B&O are of very high quality, and I do have admiration for the brand. The products I own are in my opinion as good as they get, Beolab5 - can't praise them enough. Beosound9000 -what a statement, and carries a one of a kind mechanical "movement" that no other player has. Beovision5 -revolutionary design and a true center speaker with brute force when used in surround. Beo5, -excellent and unique in every way, although it lacks the ability to be user programmed and 3rd party control.

I didn't want to bash B&O, more I wanted to point out that Rolex has very little in common with B&O.