macjonny1 wrote:

This is the second old thread I've read!  How did you guys stumble on these?

Thanks for bringing this back. Excellent reading - specially as I've just been very frustrated with B&O about similar things. I hope somebody was reading... and actually is still reading this.

My problems with B&O are pretty much around interoperability with other systems and that they seem to be falling back on technology. Besides, the design is getting at some points also a little old (BS9000, BS3200) and others are gaining. Just look at the latest TVs from LG (the borderless design with large glass in front of the panel) and I guess Sony and Samsung also have very nice looking TVs. Even though, other manufacturers are putting all kinds of features into the TVs (like skype - which is actually probably great), TV is still more and more just a display. For instance, in Finland, most people are watching digital TV with set-top boxes and while new TVs are having the right kind of tuners, the same will happen with HD TV again. It is a display. And not the center of everything.

Actually, B&O was couple of years ago going into the right direction with the introduction of digital media. However, it is clear that they are not software experts. Unfortunately. Currently the industry has some great standards like DLNA, which is really ubiquitous. With UPnP, the players find the servers automagically. And what is on the servers? Music, pictures, videos. Does that sound familiar. Isn't that BeoMaster 5? Yes, except with proprietary protocols instead of easy to use industry standards. The standards would actually bring nice interoperability. You already have that 2Tb NAS for your computer. All your pictures, music and videos are there. Why duplicate the functionality with yet another really overpriced box. I would actually consider BeoSound 5 if it could read lossless FLAC encoded music from my DLNA/UPnP server. However, now the whole package just becomes too expensive and too cumbersome.

FLAC, BTW is a free lossless encoding that is quickly gaining support from the industry. All new players support that and there are high end music stores (in internet) that sell music with very high quality FLAC encoding (even 24bit and 192kHz). Rather have this than less supported Apple Lossless. (BTW, I'm a mac user...)

So, instead of BS5 + BM5 I'm thinking of having for example Mac Mini with front row. I guess you all know what front row is like. That connected to the screen (TV) and ... suddenly I need the AV-preamp for the B&O speakers that I love (got BL9 on order). Yes, there is BeoSystem 3, but again the price is too high. Well, I have to consider what does the BS3 bring me more than some other system. Design is nice, but let's face it - with all the connections and everything, I'd like to hide it - so I might as well hide something else too.

The problem with integrating everything to the TV is that today, the technology and industry is moving much much faster than 10 years ago. You are stuck with monolithic system where some parts get old, but you cannot replace that part. The first TV that I've been interested from B&O for long time is the new BeoVision 10. Tech at the last years level, when compared to other TVs, which is ok. Currently I still have MX6000, which I haven't upgraded because I haven's seen nice enough and affordable enough TVs until now. (Well, BV10 is still 2 times too expensive...). So, apart from the price, why not get BV10? Well, it contains the surround stuff inside, so it is not future proof as said above. Also, as it is all in one, I should be able to connect everything to that. But, there isn't nearly enough connectors (digi-TV box for recording, DVD/Blu-ray, Wii, Computer) so I still should buy another AV-amp - so much for the all in one. Besides, when I asked the dealer that how I could get Blu-ray to that TV, he recommended Sony ... as B&O doesn't have standalone Blu-ray player. So much for advantages from buying just B&O.

Can I then suggest what B&O should do? Probably not really, however.... 🙂 Of course, from my point of view, I would love to have a controller like BS5 that would support standards like DLNA/UPnP, FLAC and even iTunes (not for me though) and it would therefore not need the B&O branded server. I would also love to see separation of the TVs and the other tech. So make TVs better and update them more often. And make BS3 similarly better to serve everybody (or make 2 versions) and again, update more often. Even though, DNLA/UPnP would enhance the networking capabilities of all B&O products, the whole linking system should be re-tought and implemented with current day computer technologies. Plug everything to the network and have small USB-stick size wireless as option. Include web-servers into the products for easy configuration. And lastly, create nice DACs to go with the speakers. It doesn't work in surround setups, but it would be nice addition to active speakers. Just connect SPDIF from laptop to BL4 to get much better sound quality (like in BL5).

Final note, I've grown up with B&O, I'd like to buy those. But I cannot justify buying equipment that I know will not be future proof and not allow me to access and use my media in flexible manner. Not with these prices. That is why I started my new wave of B&O equipment with the speakers. Well, not really... it was more the design and sound quality of BL9 that was the key. 😁 Now I can wait for B&O to recreate itself together with new exiting and surprising designs!

It's true some B&O designs (if not all) are in dire need of updating (or elimination). 

Though I think it would be great to create a "legacy" collection. Older models used as a basis but with updated capacities and functionality.
I still love the ouverture's design and would love to see a New Ouverture-type (with the glass doors action) with wireless connection to your network, better display, capable as hub for audio and video etc... 

On the other hand it's also time to let go of the past as we don't use AV in the same way we did 10 years ago....

Flac is just a codec so should be able to run on both Windows (BS 5) and itunes (It does on my mac). 

I do use a mac mini as media center and I absolutely love it.  Never liked the frontrow interface so I use Plex which is really polished.
Currently running plex with a B&O modded  'alaska' skin... very cool and some people are convinced it's an actual B&O product. ( the apple mini is hidden). It has  (in a matter of weeks) revolutionized the way we watch tv.....Almost 4TB is now instantly available at the touch of a button on my beo4

I am all for a 'reduced' BS3... even I would buy one instantly if it became available.  Not everyone want to (sell a kidney and) buy a B&O tv.

Having a simple surround processor makes life so much easier. As I am in North America, I use a (now 15yrs old!!!) AV7000 unit in order to give a basic surround. It's not the latest but has dolby prologic and satisfies my needs for now more than adequately. Ask my neighbours :).
Maybe you can find a Beosystem1 and use it for it's audio capabilities and use a B&O remote controlled hdmi switcher to do the video part? 

Talking about all-in-one. Toshiba showed the cell-TV on the latest CES show. A hight quality 4k capable thin monitor panel connected to a box that holds the tuner, image processors, Hard drive recorder and multimedia and internet hub and has 3d blu-ray built-in. The panel and the 'cell' unit are connected wirelessly and can stream all contents to other wireless devices. 
Great concept but ask in 2 years how fast it will be outdated.... 

The way and speed that technology is moving today, it just does not make sense to have an 'all-in-one' system. A 2 year old first gen blu-ray player will be obsolute next year as it will not have internet connection and can't stream youtube and does not have 3d Capability... (just to give you an example)

I hope B&O is smart and looks into the new tablet pc's coming this year as a source (and inspiration) to make a full wireless BS5 type system that communicates with your main computer system or NAS which will serve the music wireless to a custom USB audio card with the necessary masterlink and powerlink (and whatever new system) connectors) 

Enjoy your BL9 speakers ... they're absolutely fantastic !

Also, I really don't like the beo5.

I hope they come with a new, easy to use (beo4 format) remote.
Preferably still a mix of regular buttons and a touchscreen (easy programmable and customizable)  
And off course easy programming for your non B&O gear (like pronto or logitech) 

Samsung will release  remote like that with its UNC9000 range of LED screens ... you can even stream a video feed to it (like an iphone)

How cool is that ?

cooldude wrote:

Samsung will release  remote like that with its UNC9000 range of LED screens ... you can even stream a video feed to it (like an iphone)

How cool is that ?

 

Not cool at all. Utterly pointless and an example of how new technology has to be "digested" before it becomes genuinely useful and not just a gimmick.

What I would do.  It's not pretty.

1. Build it in China to spec.  Keep them under the thumb to produce the stuff B&O designs up to B&O standard.  The Chinese have terrible designs (Huawei routers, Great Wall cars) but given instruction they produce great product (Apple, the shoes I'm wearing).  In other words, they're modern slave labor and are happy to do it for pennies.  Win-win.

2. Drop prices to reflect savings by having production in China.

3. Expand product line to include something for everyone.  And by everyone I mean the common man.  People like me.  One subwoofer that's overkill for people in apartments and looks like my dragon killing 6-sided die from when I was 12?  Impractical.  Computer speakers for $1000?  I don't care if they spit out gold coins randomly, no computer speakers will ever be worth $1000.  Not even the B&W MM-1 will cost $1000.  If you have a high end well made product like B&O that lasts umpteen years before you need to replace it, then you have no repeat business.  You all already have the stuff.  You probably don't need much more of it.  B&O thus needs some else to go into the shop and buy something.  And the world is running out of rich people who still need a stereo.

Before you cry about the masses and exclusivity, look what happened when BMW made the 1 series, when Apple made the Mini, when Paul Reed Smith started making the SE guitar line (in Korea).  The average shlub could buy their product and feel good about themselves for half the price of the "good" versions.  All of these companies are better off for it.

4. Bring back sales in shops that aren't B&O stores.  Have the nice clean, sterile B&O shops, sure.  But sell the stuff in Macy's and online from J&R.  Have a website that'll let people who live 1000 miles from a shop buy something online.

5. Make the TVs upgradable.  What's my motivation to buy a BV7-32 that's already obsolete? The TVs were fine in the CRT days when CRT hit the ceiling as far as you could go with it.  These days there's some big new thing every 6 months.  Bigger!  Faster! 100hz!  200hz!  LED!  In three years when I replace my brand new Samsung, the technology advancements in LCD TVs will make me laugh that I ever thought the thing was cool.

6. Advertise better.  You know who knows about B&O outside of us?  No one.  Look at Bose.  They make speakers out of plastic and paper.  And they're laughing all the way to the bank.  That is marketing genius in action.

7. Sell the company to Apple.

number 7 is a definite good idea

doubt apple would be interested though

they already have brilliant designers ( jony ive ) , make e products and unlike bno make massive profits on expensive gear

it's because apple supply the whole 'experience' 

until bno hire some half decent software guys they don't stand a chance

Produce ALL of the stuff in Denmark like in the good old days!  

B&O is a traditional company and there's absolutely NO excuse to move production to Czech, including the loss of building- and finishquality!
Don't tell me it's to expensive: They did it nearly 80 years without any problems!

And hire realy good software engineers! 

dilznik wrote:

What I would do.  It's not pretty.

1. Build it in China to spec.  Keep them under the thumb to produce the stuff B&O designs up to B&O standard.  The Chinese have terrible designs (Huawei routers, Great Wall cars) but given instruction they produce great product (Apple, the shoes I'm wearing).  In other words, they're modern slave labor and are happy to do it for pennies.  Win-win.

2. Drop prices to reflect savings by having production in China.

3. Expand product line to include something for everyone.  And by everyone I mean the common man.  People like me.  One subwoofer that's overkill for people in apartments and looks like my dragon killing 6-sided die from when I was 12?  Impractical.  Computer speakers for $1000?  I don't care if they spit out gold coins randomly, no computer speakers will ever be worth $1000.  Not even the B&W MM-1 will cost $1000.  If you have a high end well made product like B&O that lasts umpteen years before you need to replace it, then you have no repeat business.  You all already have the stuff.  You probably don't need much more of it.  B&O thus needs some else to go into the shop and buy something.  And the world is running out of rich people who still need a stereo.

Before you cry about the masses and exclusivity, look what happened when BMW made the 1 series, when Apple made the Mini, when Paul Reed Smith started making the SE guitar line (in Korea).  The average shlub could buy their product and feel good about themselves for half the price of the "good" versions.  All of these companies are better off for it.

4. Bring back sales in shops that aren't B&O stores.  Have the nice clean, sterile B&O shops, sure.  But sell the stuff in Macy's and online from J&R.  Have a website that'll let people who live 1000 miles from a shop buy something online.

5. Make the TVs upgradable.  What's my motivation to buy a BV7-32 that's already obsolete? The TVs were fine in the CRT days when CRT hit the ceiling as far as you could go with it.  These days there's some big new thing every 6 months.  Bigger!  Faster! 100hz!  200hz!  LED!  In three years when I replace my brand new Samsung, the technology advancements in LCD TVs will make me laugh that I ever thought the thing was cool.

6. Advertise better.  You know who knows about B&O outside of us?  No one.  Look at Bose.  They make speakers out of plastic and paper.  And they're laughing all the way to the bank.  That is marketing genius in action.

7. Sell the company to Apple.

This proves that you are not B&O fan and do not know anything about B&O.. All idea is stupid... I am sorry for saying that, but all your idea will kill B&O faster and faster. 

Because:

1&2: this is "fake" product , althought price is cheaper. Evenmore, the quality is standard, but customer will think in his mind that "quality is  more and more reduced"

3: Just like Japanese company. B&O will become Sony, Panasonic...Hihi

4: Why B&O have to do this, while all firm wish to have a distribution system like B&O?

5: Do you dare to buy biggest TV of BO?

6: Why to advertise when BO is already famous and No.1 brandname?

7: How you can compare Apple with B&O? I suggest that BO should by Apple . Because they can, but Apple can not.

I have only 1 ideal: "When B&O can make No.1 best Speaker and System for MUSIC in the world?" It is not for home theatre, for film, for radio... Let's see the world outside for music: Kharma, Dyn, Accapela, MBL, Busmester, YG.... they always have their best speaker at top range, and only for MUSIC. 

I have so good memory of Penta speaker with system 7000 and it sound perfect for music... That is the feeling that I've never had with present B&O systems.

Why is point 1 & 2 fake?

Beolab 4 made in Japan.....

Beotime made in Czech. Rep....

Now you pay for Danisch quality and they make it in low-cost countries, that's fake!

Giang Nguyen wrote:

 

This proves that you are not B&O fan and do not know anything about B&O.. All idea is stupid... I am sorry for saying that, but all your idea will kill B&O faster and faster. 

Because:

1&2: this is "fake" product , althought price is cheaper. Evenmore, the quality is standard, but customer will think in his mind that "quality is  more and more reduced"

3: Just like Japanese company. B&O will become Sony, Panasonic...Hihi

4: Why B&O have to do this, while all firm wish to have a distribution system like B&O?

5: Do you dare to buy biggest TV of BO?

6: Why to advertise when BO is already famous and No.1 brandname?

7: How you can compare Apple with B&O? I suggest that BO should by Apple . Because they can, but Apple can not.

 

 

I have only 1 ideal: "When B&O can make No.1 best Speaker and System for MUSIC in the world?" It is not for home theatre, for film, for radio... Let's see the world outside for music: Kharma, Dyn, Accapela, MBL, Busmester, YG.... they always have their best speaker at top range, and only for MUSIC. 

I have so good memory of Penta speaker with system 7000 and it sound perfect for music... That is the feeling that I've never had with present B&O systems.

+1

Please B&O stay as a European company. I don`t like to see the label: made in PRC or Apple.

Regards Alen