Hi lg, and welcome to beoworld.

lg wrote:

The reason I started to change my mind was that the 6000 seem to have some quality issues. This surprises me: I have had a bunch of non B&O-speakers for 20-25 years and none of them have broken. Why does a premium brand such as B&O have this problem? And how do I avoid buying a second hand BL6000 that is about to break?

Many older speakers (of all brands, not just B&O) used foam surrounds on the drivers and it is common for these to disintegrate completely over time. The BL6000's are a little different in that they use rubber surrounds but the material is thin and as you have read these surrounds can harden and then crack over time. Usage and age are both factors and really all you can do is closely examine the surrounds on any speaker you are considering purchasing.

lg wrote:

Apparently, replacing the elements in a pair of 6000 is about 80% of the market price for a pair of second hand BL6000.

That is probably the case, although you can also consider replacing the surrounds rather than the entire drivers - it's not too difficult to achieve if you are of a practical nature. AudioFriends in the Netherlands supply replacement rubber surround that have been pretty well received. They're not 100% match to the originals but if anything they tend to improve the bass response a little (I would recommend replacing all the surrounds in one go if you proceed down this route as you would want all the speakers to remain matched to each other).

lg wrote:

Does the BL8000 have similar problems with the rubber (?) in the elements getting dry/failing?

Not that I have encountered. The can suffer from an issue with deterioration of the foam tape that is used to seal parts of the speakers internally, which in turn can cause corrosion of the circuit boards, but both models of speaker are pretty reliable with most providing years of reliable service so it is easy to overstate these potential faults, and again any resulting faults are often repairable without resorting to replacement of entire modules.

lg wrote:

Anyway, as I understand it, if you compare a 6000 with a 8000, the main difference is the bass where the 8000 offers a much stronger experience than the 6000. Is that correct?

Broadly speaking, yes. Both are column style speakers (and are therefore limited on the size of drivers that could be incorporated) so you shouldn't expect massive bass levels, but both are good speakers. The best advise as always is to find somewhere you can listen to a pair yourself as we each tend to have our own preferences when it comes to which speakers sound best.

lg wrote:

Now, the 8000 seems to come in at least three different configurations, "original", Mk2 and 8002, where the Mk2 has an improved bass compared to the original version. Are Mk2 = 8002? Or what is the difference between Mk2 and 8002? What is a reasonable price difference (in percent) between the different variations of BL8000?

Yes, as you have discovered there are two main 'versions' of the 8000, plus the later 8002 model which is different again.

The original 'mk1' was launched in 1992, so some of the earlier models will be well over 20 years old now.

The 'mk2' was released in January 2003, from serial number 16992475 and was manufactured with different drivers and is reported as offering improved bass at lower listening levels (although the published specifications remains unchanged).

The Beolab 8002 replaced the Beolab 8000 (mk2) towards the end of 2010 and replaced the class AB amplifiers used in the 8000 with a pair of 125W IcePower amplifiers (as well minor design changes such as moving the power LED, and removing the phono connector).

lg wrote:

8000 cost 50-100% more than 6000 - money that could be spent on a subwoofer, to compensate for the BL6000's shortcomings in that area. What is your opinion about a pair of BL6000 + subwoofer versus a pair of BL8000? What subwoofer would you recommend (it does not have to be a B&O subwoofer - all subwoofers are equally ugly and hard to furnish with)?

I'm not really a fan of subwoofers for music. I have a BL2 subwoofer which is great for movies but I didn't use it with my BL8000s for music and I have even less need for it now I have replaced them with a pair of BL9s. The BL2 is capable of producing massive volumes of room shaking bass but is a bit slow and inaccurate for music. The BL11 would probably be a better option for music if you really want a sub but I haven't heard it myself in conjunction with either the 6000s or the 8000s so I'll leave it to others to comment further on it's suitability.

lg wrote:

My understanding is that subwoofers generally are combined with passive satellites, and the satellites are driven by the subwoofers power amp.

Whilst this is a common setup for other brands, B&O subwoofers are active (they have their own amps for the sub itself), but are generally designed for use with other active (beolab) speakers. So you can feed both left and right full range signals into the sub, it reproduces the low frequency audio whilst filtering this out of the signal then sent to the other Beolab speakers (which are connected to it, in your case the 6000s or 8000s).

lg wrote:

In one link on this forum the suggestion was to buy Y jack splitter and use between the sound source (an iPod) and the speakers to split the signal to both the speakers and the subwoofer. I was quite surprised by this suggestion. Wouldn't that mean that the frequencies handled and played by the subwoofer also are played by the regular speakers? Is that really desirable? I thought that an active subwoofer filtered the frequencies so that the low frequencies are played by the subwoofer and the high frequencies by the regular speakers and that there were no overlap between them. Is that a misunderstanding on my side?

Yes, IMO that would be a less than optimum setup. But it is difficult one as the post was discussing using a non B&O subwoofer which only had a mono input (and no inbuilt crossover / filtering for other speakers). With a B&O subwoofer you would generally connect your source to the sub, and the sub to both BeoLabs, then you just feed your audio into the sub and everything is taken care of for you.

I hope this helps and doesn't just confuse matters further 😮

Kind Regards,

Martin.

Thanks for your very extensive answer :-)

riverstyx wrote:

I'm not really a fan of subwoofers for music. I have a BL2 subwoofer which is great for movies but I didn't use it with my BL8000s for music and I have even less need for it now I have replaced them with a pair of BL9s. The BL2 is capable of producing massive volumes of room shaking bass but is a bit slow and inaccurate for music. The BL11 would probably be a better option for music if you really want a sub but I haven't heard it myself in conjunction with either the 6000s or the 8000s so I'll leave it to others to comment further on it's suitability.

Basically what you say is that subwoofers are for movies (and possibly bass heavy dance music, but that is not what I am listening to anyway)? But at the same time you seem to have some reservations against using a standalone pair of BL8000 for music? Would you recommend that I either combine a pair of BL8000 with something else or that I look for a completely different model? Of course, one can always spend a little more on audio equipment to improve the sound…

Guess I have to find someone with both 6000 and 8000 so I can do my own listening tests.

I have both the 6000 and the 8000. I bought the 6000 workout even listening to them and was rather worried about the lack of bass issue that everyone mentions. I was pleasantly surprised. Was really great although the surrounds did crack after having them a month so I will have to repair them. I took the 6000 away and put the 8000. They sounded brilliant! They seem to envelope you a bit more with the music. I will leave the 8000 in the livingroom and the 6000 will go in a smaller room. If you need speakers for a big area then go for the 8000. I also feel there is no need for a subwoofer for either of these speakers and I'm a lover of good bass. Either way In doubt you'll be disappointed. 

Jumping in here as I'm using two sets of BL8000 where one of the pair has a BL11 which works out really great as it's quick and snappy sub compated with the older BL2 which for me is a more of a movie sub. While the BL8000 do offer a good volume adding the BL11 does a lot, so can only recommend this combo from my side.

Maybe this can help?

It's from a Q and A after one of Geoff Martin's blog articles called 'What are subwoofer REALLY for'?

You can find the article, which imo is worth reading, when you consider adding a subwoofer to your setup, here:

link

Personally I would add a subwoofer to any (newer) BV-based setup - apart from when you are using the BL9/20/5 (or the BL90).

With a tv/receiver (without the audioengine of the BV's) and with a stereo-only setup, I would let my taste/listening habits and the room, where the speakers are, decide - try it out with and without.

MM

----

1. Hello Geoff, 

   Thank you for your article! In this case, I don’t need Beolab 19 for Beolab 18?

2. Hi,

   Adding a BeoLab 19 to a pair of BeoLab 18’s will most certainly give you more capability to play low frequency content louder. However, the amount of benefit that a 19 brings to a pair of 18’s is directly dependent on how loudly you play. The louder, the more benefit you get by having the 19 in the system.

   The best way to find out whether you would hear an improvement in your system with the 19 added is to ask your dealer for a home demo. Add the 19 to your 18’s for a week. At the end of the week, when they remove the 19, if you find yourself missing it, then you know you were using it… :-)

   Cheers
   -geoff

    

lg wrote:

Basically what you say is that subwoofers are for movies

Not necessarily, but I think the BL2 is well suited for movies but not so well suited for music. Hence the suggestion you consider the BL11 instead (with the caveat that I haven't heard it personally in conjunction with either of the speakers we're discussing here).

lg wrote:

But at the same time you seem to have some reservations against using a standalone pair of BL8000 for music?

Not at all. I used a pair of BL8000's as my main speakers for a number of years and like them a lot. I've since replaced them with a pair of BL9's but still can''t bring myself to get rid of the 8000s. I'm renovating my home a room at a time so it is my intention at some stage to re-deploy them in another room.

lg wrote:

Would you recommend that I either combine a pair of BL8000 with something else or that I look for a completely different model? Of course, one can always spend a little more on audio equipment to improve the sound…

It's really hard to recommend a particular model of speakers to anyone, as each of us have our own tastes (and expectations). For me, if it came down to a choice between the 6000 and 8000 I would opt for the 8000 as I like the design of both, but prefer the sound of the 8000 (even after factoring in the difference in cost).

Then, if you still felt it was lacking something in the low end, I would consider the BL11 as I think that is likely to be a better option than the BL2 for music, but I would try without first as you may be entirely satisfied without a sub.

Kind regards,

Martin.

I have three of them: The 6000, the 8000 and -  what I prefer -  the Pentas. I started with the 8000.

They sound well -  at mid levels - avoid high volume the sound flattens, avoid low volume - there's no bass, it sounds a bit empty. The Mids and the Highs are great, but not that great as the penta!

The 6000 has - overall - the better sound! The highs and mids sounds more elegant where the 8000 is a bit colder and more analytical! Not much but you'll here it in an A/B shootout!

The 6000 has more bass a lower volume, I think the sound ist rounder. The 6000 can't go as deep as the 8000 and, except of the 8000, it don't want to give these bass - maybe thats the reason for the fuller sound. But avoid volume over mid level - it doesn't sound very well - it flattens and began to scream . . .

The Pentas does all with no worry! The sound is brilliant, elegant and warm - no matter at low, mid or high volumes!

But, I think the Pentas are from another time with another sound! I love this sound, but someone could think it is to warm and prefer the colder variant like the Beolab 1.

I've never heard the 9 or 5 or 20 so I cant say anything about them! 

I have read up a little more during the holidays and one thing that struck me is that B&O active speakers always play at "maximum volume". How does that actually work? Generally, playing at maximum volume has some negative side effects, such as

1. Consume a lot of energy -> heat
2. A lot of noise. Even if there is no signal, if you turn up a conventional amp to max you hear a lot of noise from the electronics, 50 Hz from the power grid etc.
3. Distortion increases with volume.