BeoGreg wrote:

The software version is 2.1 so an update is available, but why the hell I need again to check if the software is ok and go back to the shop, etc... 

We use Beocom 5's in our office and they shipped with 2.1. The latest sw is 2.3 and there was a big update (2.2?) where one major bug was fixed - the phone would cut off when put in to speaker mode.

Since updating to 2.3, we're fairly happy with our office Beocom 5s. There are a couple of issues though:

1) The phone can spit and splutter when ringing, which is a bit embarrassing, but not a major issue

2) Very occasionally the call can end when the Beocom 5 loses connection to the base. This seems to happen when you're on a long (conference) call. Worse, if they call us and we don't have their number, we have to wait for them to redial and blame the disconnection on a poor line! It isn't, it's the Beocom 5 losing the connection. Doesn't happen often, but it's happened at least 3 times on long calls. As someone pointed out, it's a known issue.

It would be nice for all products to ship with the latest sw, but that would require B&O opening each item, connecting to a laptop and then spending time updating the product - even updating the sw on a Beocom 5 isn't a quick process. Most customer's would be shocked to see this happen in the store, so it's not practical.

Besides, I think us B&O customers have an obesession with having the latest sw installed! Most people won't notice any issues at all with their hardware or, if they do, will think it's a quirk with the hardware.

My dealer has just replied to my email saying that the Beocom 5 2.4 sw update should be out 5 December and that it should fix the disconnection problem.

moxxey wrote:

It would be nice for all products to ship with the latest sw, but that would require B&O opening each item, connecting to a laptop and then spending time updating the product - even updating the sw on a Beocom 5 isn't a quick process. Most customer's would be shocked to see this happen in the store, so it's not practical.

Besides, I think us B&O customers have an obesession with having the latest sw installed! Most people won't notice any issues at all with their hardware or, if they do, will think it's a quirk with the hardware.

I can't imagine you really think that it is acceptable for B&O to allow stuff out of the showrooms that doesn't work properly and hope that the customers don't relise it's the software and that if it  is not working, believe it's a quirk! - if it's not working - it's not working plain and simple, and the customer should expect it to be 100% operational when he gets it.

It should leave the showroom with the latest software! If that means the store has to to do it, then it should be done! I think majority of users would not be shocked to know or see this happen, especially if it means they don't have to come back for it to be done anyway, which is what happens now it seems. Customers these days know software controls most things and if a quick fix makes a better customer experience then that should be what happens. Obviously it is different if an issue is discovered later and newer software is produced, but it should leave the store with the most current available on that day!

You seem to advocate that if you buy B&O and don't know or worry about the latest software, and then find your hardware doesn't work, you either put up with it because you think it's a quirk and think I'm never going to buy that again, or you have to trapse back and watch them update it in any event because it was too shocking to do the first time you visited the store. Hardly good customer servince and brand management.

I know what I would prefer!

Stoobie

Stoobietoo wrote:

It should leave the showroom with the latest software!

I agree - but even then it can/will will happen older components of your system need to be updated too.

Stoobietoo wrote:

I can't imagine you really think that it is acceptable for B&O to allow stuff out of the showrooms..

It should leave the showroom with the latest software!

Let me tell you that I've had more issues with BV7-40 sw than most people. Please be more considerate when choosing your words. And more practical with your thinking.

Three important points here:

1) You cannot expect a manufacturer to finish, box and provide small products to a dealer - which they then keep in stock - then, every time that dealer sells a product, expect them to get it out of the box, get their fingers all over the product and then update the software every time a customer buys a product. What sort of impression does that give to the customer? Most customers want to buy their products pristine and do the all-important unboxing themselves. They do not want their products unboxed before they get them home.

2) SW updates are made available all the time. Indeed, taking the BV7-40 as an example, sw updates/fixes actually broke functionality after the release of the BV7-40 MKIII. There were all kinds of local UK Sky-related issues that kept cropping up each time B&O released a new sw update. In these examples, updating the sw to the latest version by the dealer is both impractical and can actually affect the use of the product. Like someone mentioned above, you do not NEED the latest software in every scenario.

3) No other manufacturer updates sw for their products after the customer picks up their purchase. If Samsung ships a MK-I version of their new TV, it might sit in the warehouse for months. By the time the customer purchases this TV, there could be issues. Samsung's dealers do not upgrade the sw, nor do they send around an engineer to upgrade the sw.

We've become slightly obsessed with software updates as a community. I'm not saying that B&O should be shipping "faulty" goods, but remember that some issues crop up locally - such as the Sky issues in the UK - and a customer in, say, Denmark will never experience those sw issues and, thus, their TV won't be "faulty" as you indicate.

moxxey wrote:

Stoobietoo wrote:

I can't imagine you really think that it is acceptable for B&O to allow stuff out of the showrooms..

It should leave the showroom with the latest software!

Let me tell you that I've had more issues with BV7-40 sw than most people. Please be more considerate when choosing your words. And more practical with your thinking.

I'm sorry that you take offence at what I said, but I didn't mean "you" specifically! Mind you, I would have thought that as you have had so much of an issue with your TV you would really have wished it had worked 100% from the day you recieved it. If given the choice of working 100% when I get it or working only after I have had it days, weeks or months and returned it (or had a technician out) to update, I know I would want it working correctly from the beginning.

moxxey wrote:

1) You cannot expect a manufacturer to finish, box and provide small products to a dealer - which they then keep in stock - then, every time that dealer sells a product, expect them to get it out of the box, get their fingers all over the product and then update the software every time a customer buys a product. What sort of impression does that give to the customer? Most customers want to buy their products pristine and do the all-important unboxing themselves. They do not want their products unboxed before they get them home.

I still stand by the fact that if you are spending well over the odds on something such as a phone, I would happily wait in store, whilst the software was updated, if I knew it was going to correct a known issue. I would think the impression on the customer would be far better then them unboxing their fabulous purchase only to be let down by it not doing what they were promised it would once home. If I paid £30 for a cordless phone and there was an issue I'd take it back for a refund or put up with it, if I paid £450 (BeoCom 5?) I'd expect more!

moxxey wrote:

2) SW updates are made available all the time. Indeed, taking the BV7-40 as an example, sw updates/fixes actually broke functionality after the release of the BV7-40 MKIII. There were all kinds of local UK Sky-related issues that kept cropping up each time B&O released a new sw update. In these examples, updating the sw to the latest version by the dealer is both impractical and can actually affect the use of the product. Like someone mentioned above, you do not NEED the latest software in every scenario.

The discussion began with a customer having got a phone home that did not do what it should as advertised, there was a known issue and apparently already a software update that has sorted it, and whilst I agree that you do not need the latest software in every instance, you should at least have the software that gives you a 100% functional purchase. especially with a known issue. I suppose what I should have said in my posting is not - It should leave the showroom with the latest software! If that means the store has to to do it, then it should be done! - but - It should leave the showroom with the software that gives 100% funtionality as per the specification and gives the customer what they paid for even if it means doing the update before delivering it/handing it over.

moxxey wrote:

3) No other manufacturer updates sw for their products after the customer picks up their purchase. If Samsung ships a MK-I version of their new TV, it might sit in the warehouse for months. By the time the customer purchases this TV, there could be issues. Samsung's dealers do not upgrade the sw, nor do they send around an engineer to upgrade the sw.

This is not correct! I have a 4 year old Humax Freeview Box, it has had 2 OTA (over the air) software updates since I have had it and Humax sends out newsletters every few months saying when the next updates are due for many of their boxes. They also re-run updates regularly in case you missed it or bought new-old stock. My Samsung TV has had 1 update since I've owned it in 4 years, it was about 2 years ago and when I turned the TV on it gave me the choice of installing the update or not and if you did install, you can roll back at any time.

Take a look

Stoobietoo wrote:

I'm sorry that you take offence at what I said, but I didn't mean "you" specifically! 

This is not correct! I have a 4 year old Humax Freeview Box, it has had 2 OTA (over the air) software updates since I have had it and Humax sends out newsletters every few months saying when the next updates are due for many of their boxes.

I don't take offence at anything posted on a forum. Doesn't affect me at all.

What I mean about software updates is where B&O send an engineer around to fix issues, free of charge, as part of your warranty. Of course manufacturers provide software updates you can do yourself - the Playstation 3 receives these all the time, so does the Apple TV and many other similar situations.

However, none of these make the effort to come to your house to do it for you and, remember, most B&O customers are fairly clueless - one reason, frankly, why they walk in to a B&O store in the first place. B&O are one of the only hardware manufacturers who send around an engineer to upgrade your TV, when required.

Remember that the hardware B&O produce *does* have the latest software installed when it leaves the factory. You're suggesting that dealers upgrade the software to the latest version before it leaves the shop. This is impractical for many customers and doesn't offer a good experience. You might be the exception, but no-one wants the dealer to start unpacking their products and connecting them up to a laptop. Doesn't look good for the customer, either. I can't think of any dealer who would do something similar, for any brand, including Apple - buy an Apple product and the first thing it does is look for the latest software, firmware update and so on.

B&O sacked about a third of their software development team two years ago, this is a key reason for the software problems that we've all experienced lately. I agree it's not good enough and it's a real shame to buy a Beocom 5 which isn't working correctly, only to find that the latest software update fixes the issue and you have to get your dealer to update it.

B&O should add automatic software updates for all their products and, hopefully, that's the way things are going in the future.

moxxey wrote:

Remember that the hardware B&O produce *does* have the latest software installed when it leaves the factory. You're suggesting that dealers upgrade the software to the latest version before it leaves the shop. This is impractical for many customers and doesn't offer a good experience. You might be the exception, but no-one wants the dealer to start unpacking their products and connecting them up to a laptop. Doesn't look good for the customer, either. I can't think of any dealer who would do something similar, for any brand, including Apple - buy an Apple product and the first thing it does is look for the latest software, firmware update and so on.

And that is my point entirely! If B&O items updated themselves first time you used them then there would be no issue but they don't. If you did a poll outside a B&O shop saying

1: You can buy a Beocom 5, pay £450 and take it home right now but it won't work when you get home. We won't tell you there is an issue.

2. You can buy a Beocom 5 and take it home right now but it won't work when you get home. We are aware there is an issue but won't fix it becuse you might have to see it being connected to a PC and you won't have unpacked it yourself. You'll be happy to know it won't cost you to have it sorted because it is under warranty but you will have to make sure someone is at home when we call (on your other phone cos this one isn't working).

3. You can buy a Beocom 5, we will say that to ensure it works perfectly for you, let us unpack it, update it, pack it back up, while you wait 15 mins (or what ever) and take it home and it will work.

Which box woyld the consumer tick?

Once again, I can't imagine that the experience of leaving with a non working product (when there is a known issue and update that fixes it) but being the "first" to open the box and finding it doesn't work out-weighs the experience of letting the box be opened in store and software updated to a 100% working version. If they come to the house with the laptop you'll see it all connected in any event! And in the long run it will cost far more because a technician doesn't work for B&O for free. 15 mins in store or an hour or so round trip for the technician.

Let's not forget, we are not talking about every B&O item, just those few that don't work.

Stoobie