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A poor product now will always be a poor product - a good product will always be good.
Agreed.
I just try to look forward 40-50 years... anyone suppose Dillen's grandchildren will be writing threads on restoring a BS5? 😂
Seriously, the problem in simplest terms is that B&o seem to be functioning to the inverse of Moore's Law as it might be applied in the AV industry.
Technology is supposed to advance and prices are supposed to drop. 😕
As others... I will say again... I really hope they make it!
Is the latest and greatest technology what "everybody" needs to cope with life, especially when it has to do with "entertainment" products? It's "life style" not life sustaining. Technology, like B&O is background stuff, and not the forefront of my daily existance, or at least that is how I treat it. Plus if I want to add another B&O product years from now I can do it, because thats the way B&O has always been.
I think part of my gripe with B&O is not that they are not offering the latest and greatest (which they clearly are not, and we can debate that until the cows come home) - but their efforts are only 70%.
Sure, Apple has a huge market cap - of course pre-iPOD they were about to disappear -but why have the risen from the ashes?
They have a slick product with an amazing and integrated user interface. The stuff works, it is easy to use, and it doesnt try to be something that it is not. Now look at B&O - pick a product (particularly the recent ones). The key chain? limited range, a button for light control (and yet no product to control lights anymore), an audio on/off and a video on/off button (how about programmable buttons? 1 for radio? 1 for CD or maybe 1 for video?) - all in a package that is a little too bug (IMHO). I have a BS3200 - their first branch into digital media - no way of loading non-CD music, 1:1 recording speed (hence very slow). An index system based on colors - a naming system that is obviously DOS based and barely usable. This forum is full of complaints about the TVs (besides the obscene pricing) not having the basic connectors. Masterlink, powerlink, whatever - does anyone understand how it works other than wiring all over a house. WiFi is everywhere - a reasonable standard, if iTunes can stream audio throughout a home - why cant B&O come up with something to tie there stuff together? Sure, would like to have a Beolab 3500 in my bedroom - but I dont have any way to wire it. Other little things that dont seem to make sense - why does a Beosound 1 have a headphone jack in the middle of the back? (afterthoughts?) Why no separate AUX input or button?
If B&O prides itself on design - then there appears to be a lot missing in the design besides something that looks pretty - the functionality appears to be an afterthought......
-michael
I agree with a earlier note that the comparison between Apple and B&O is probably not right... from a financial perspective as well as product design and creation perspective.
Probably a comparison with Meridian should make more sense. A company driven by audio and movie reproduction. High build standards (although quite a different design 😕 ) and also moving in new directions with there acquired Sooloos.
What I miss in the arguments of Trip regarding the custom marker, is that most good audio and video systems can be incorporated in systems from Luton, Creston, Philips (Pronto line) or KNX/EIB based systems. This include systems like Meridian, Loewe, T+A, Panasonic, Planar etc. etc. What besides the design of B&O makes them better suited for this market than any of their competitors? I can not believe that installation time is the major concern in such cases. What makes it more difficult to connect a Panasonic screen to a Creston (as an example) than a B&O solution?
As many stated before, B&O makes in general well designed products which in the case of the speakers and other audio products with a good or even excellent sound.
What I miss, is the ability to mix B&O with other components. I would like to combine the audio systems with a down scaled Beosystem 3 or a Beosystem 3+ which can drive multiple screens independently with TV's and other video systems from other brands, iPod/Soolos MP3 system, full OS X, Linux and Windows support and integrate it with my KNX/EIB based domotica solution. Come on Trip, deliver that "custom" walhalla to me!
I disagree that only the 'techy' people come on here
Absolutely, of course you can disagree. However, if you look at the circulation of our top consumer PC title, it sells around 175,000 copies. However, we have 25,000 registered users and less than 2,000 active users. Very similar situation. If all 25,000 registered users posted on our forums, we'd be absolutely inundated. The forum is still a key part of the magazine readership and an important element for our advertisers etc.
Anyway, the point is still valid Lee - the average B&O customer is still within the age group described, still is not so tech literate and wants someone to do it all for them.
Besides, a lot of British people with (new) money are snobs and this is why a lot of these people bought B&O. They don't understand 1080p, HD or even digital. However, by buying B&O - and spending the money - they feel that they've bought 'the best', assuming it does have all the latest features. This was maybe true in the Avant days, but less so now. As the B&O audience becomes more tech savvy (most people under 40 use and understand computers), they are also becoming away that B&O != 'the best', in all circumstances.
I agree with some of this. However, most people do not understand computers in the same way that many drivers don't understand what's under the bonnet. As time goes on the interfaces get better and you just don't need that understanding as a user. Just as software and hardware should be getting better and cheaper and more intuitive you would think that B&O would be able to focus more on the external appearances and interfaces, with up-dateable plug-in modules to prevent premature obsolescence. (How many people would buy a B&O branded module that enabled their FM equipment to convert to DAB or N Radio?)
We all get a distorted view of the world from where we stand, physically and in terms of age, at any moment. B&O have to make their own judgement as to where the market is, who's buying and how to gain or maintain a loyal following.
My wife used to work in radio and television sales for John Lewis. They reckoned that it only took about 6 weeks for a newly sold computer or TV to be superseded by a later version. When we bought our Avant (new from B&O)) a few years ago it was actually my wife's choice after an extended demonstration (and by doing so this was a resounding endorsement of B&O against any number of quality alternative JL stocked TVs at a fraction of the price). A decision we've never regretted........ but I do hesitate over further TV updating having become better informed on Beoworld!
Graham
I disagree that only the 'techy' people come on here
Absolutely, of course you can disagree. However, if you look at the circulation of our top consumer PC title, it sells around 175,000 copies. However, we have 25,000 registered users and less than 2,000 active users. Very similar situation. If all 25,000 registered users posted on our forums, we'd be absolutely inundated. The forum is still a key part of the magazine readership and an important element for our advertisers etc.
Anyway, the point is still valid Lee - the average B&O customer is still within the age group described, still is not so tech literate and wants someone to do it all for them.
Besides, a lot of British people with (new) money are snobs and this is why a lot of these people bought B&O. They don't understand 1080p, HD or even digital. However, by buying B&O - and spending the money - they feel that they've bought 'the best', assuming it does have all the latest features. This was maybe true in the Avant days, but less so now. As the B&O audience becomes more tech savvy (most people under 40 use and understand computers), they are also becoming away that B&O != 'the best', in all circumstances.
I agree with some of this. However, most people do not understand computers in the same way that many drivers don't understand what's under the bonnet. As time goes on the interfaces get better and you just don't need that understanding as a user. Just as software and hardware should be getting better and cheaper and more intuitive you would think that B&O would be able to focus more on the external appearances and interfaces, with up-dateable plug-in modules to prevent premature obsolescence. (How many people would buy a B&O branded module that enabled their FM equipment to convert to DAB or N Radio?)
We all get a distorted view of the world from where we stand, physically and in terms of age, at any moment. B&O have to make their own judgement as to where the market is, who's buying and how to gain or maintain a loyal following.
My wife used to work in radio and television sales for John Lewis. They reckoned that it only took about 6 weeks for a newly sold computer or TV to be superseded by a later version. When we bought our Avant (new from B&O)) a few years ago it was actually my wife's choice after an extended demonstration (and by doing so this was a resounding endorsement of B&O against any number of quality alternative JL stocked TVs at a fraction of the price). A decision we've never regretted........ but I do hesitate over further TV updating having become better informed on Beoworld!
Graham
...and this 'bettered information' is mostly factual Graham. I too have learnt a lot from debates on this forum and of course my own observations of products in store. My next TV purchase which will almost certainly be B&O, will be second hand. I will not make the mistake of buying a brand new B&O TV again, but then I am someone who does not like to see money go to waste and I want (and expect) a certain value to my purchases.
With regards to earlier points made that we expect to much given the current climate of technology, I totally disagree with that and believe that products can and should be made a lot more futureproof than we have seen from B&O in recent years.
Simon.
Couple of thoughts:
All brands experience strong and less-successful eras, and at times have 'Serenata/DVD2 moments' - Aston Martin Cygnet anyone? (for those that may not have seen:
I'm over the moon with our BV8-40 and Beo5 deal this year.
To be fair, this was a crackingly good deal. In hindsight, why did I bother spending an extra £3K to upgrade from the BV7-40 MKIII to the MKIV? I'd have been better finding another £800....and buying a brand new BV8-40 with Beo5 and keeping both TVs!
I've read so many things about B&O... one more thread i say.
B&O it's all about design + integration so they say... i just say that everything is true but there's a lack of upgrades + common platform + HW update.
I do have several B&O products and i'm happy with them, yes, i'm telling the true but... B&O should invest in technology + usability.
When i new product get's in the market it's "almost" outdated when compared with other similar brands and that folks makes me terribly unhappy.
"Less is more" but we surely can have good taste with the proper functionality and keep up with the needs that costumers face everyday.
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