Welcome to Beoworld.

I agree with most of what you say. B&O is no longer an early adopter brand - but it does offer good quality, albeit at a price. The digital recording issue is certainly a problem - I use Sky+ as this integrates seamlessly and offers all I want. The HDR1/2 certainly do not offer anything like the flexibility.

I agree that the BM5 has too small a HDD though this can be expanded. Seems a bit silly when disc space is so cheap though.

I rather like the BL5 though it does not disappear like either the Penta or BL1. WAF does not seem too high on the feature list here!

The problem with the light controllers is the lack of a central controller. In the early days, the two way control allowed a great deal of programming but this has all gone. Therefore the reliance on Lutron, which is a good but expensive system. There are other light controls that work with B&O in a similar way to the LC2.

I also agree with these sentiments. B&O is not as groundbreaking as it once was and that is a great shame. Generally speaking I would not think twice when it comes to buying speakers, audio equipment and telephones from B&O but their TVs and rest of the range leave a lot to be desired. The BeoLab 5s I don't particularly like either although the sound quality is unquestionable.

The design of the BeoLab 9s I do like very much. The BeoLab 3s are also a neat design and again with exceptional sound reproduction. I agree that the BeoSound 5 looks great but doesn't offer much else. I hoped it would never happen but I feel B&O have got 'too big for their boots' i.e. they have assumed that just because they were once great - they still are - and that their customers (new and old) would pay prices for their products regardless of their design and performance.

This is simply not the case. They need to make way for new designers and new more open-minded and less greedy people in strategic management positions. If they carry on at this rate we'll be seeing brushed stainless steel/aliminium replaced with brushed plastic and coming off a conveyor belt in China. They need to do something to restore faith in the brand.

Simon.

I don't think that B&O has problems with their hardware. I recently got my BV4 65" and nothing comes close. At first I bought it because it fits to the speakers and aluminum casing. But the picture in every way is stunning (DVB-C, Apple TV, Blu Ray).

No other company does combine audio and video quality like B&O. Neither Pioneer, Loewe nor Sony.

What I think is, that B&O needs a common software platform: BeoSound 5 would be fantastic with a Apple like software infrastructure. Apple's success with Steve Jobs is MacOS X and looking at todays iPod touch, iPhone, Mac and AppleTV, they run OS X. For me it seems like B&O has no knowledge in software... with a real software platform integration and develepment would be much better and faster.

Well, I have the same feeling. Technology is changing faster than ever. In the past, B&O always made sure that the technology they used, was the technology that won the technology battle e.g. VHS over Betamax, BlueRay etc.

In my opinion they still do a great job identifying the technology worth supporting / embedding in their technology (just read the latest investors report). Being a small company compared to Phillips, Panasonic etc. they don't have the financial resources to play in the same league.

But things are changing faster than ever. In my opinion BlueRay or any other disc is becoming obsolete as the Internet provider putting more and more bandwith in the game, thus allowing us to use high speed services e.g. Apple TV etc. Ultimately all music and films will be purchased or rented via the net. Panasonic is selling HD-TV's with 600hz now. I own a Beovision 5 TV for 5 years now. Still happy with it but the system is completely outdated if it comes to Full-HD, HDMI connections etc. I am locked out connecting modern devices e.g Apple TV to my system.

At a price tag of € 20.000 for the Beovision5 the obsolence curve is far too steep. Will I buy another "latest technology TV system" from B&O at similar price levels in the future?

I doubt it.

Nevertheless, the Beolab 5 speakers in my living room are great to look at and produce a gorgeous sound. I still stick to B&O as with their Beolink, they are still way ahead of the pack. Being able to listen to all music sources in all rooms of my home. Whow it is still awesome.

Hope B&O will generate enough revenue to stay in the game. It looks that Loewe is on the way overtaking them.

Mikethebike

Well I think you have struck a chord of common ground between all B&O products. Dating back to the 80s/90s, for instance, my BG4500 does not show track time, have a repeat function, or shuffle feature. Yet a period magnavox piece has all the same features. Im also a great fan of B&O and always will be, but I must agree with that point of yours devilla.

I have been saying that for a while so yes 110% in agreement there.

I do like the bl5😉

It's all-too-easy to get the software wrong if you aren't a software-orientated company. Luckily Apple are (as an example). Although they've always produced computers, they've always produced their OS, too.

I've found with the company I work for is that it takes *AGES* to get our external programmers to do anything. If B&O are using external people to do their work, then it's going to be a slow slow process. It's very difficult trying to build the hardware and the software, particularly if the software people aren't internal.

I don't think it will get any better. B&O have been cutting staff and their dev teams, not building them. I once read a quote from Apple saying they *increased* R&D spend in bad times, putting behind money in the good times to finance this increased spend. They claimed they were then in pole position coming out of those bad times, to excel beyond your competitors.

I don't have much faith in B&O. Over the last year or so, they seem to think the way forward is to increase their prices so much, that they only appeal to rich 'dumb' people who don't question the lack of features or connect stuff that causes sw crashes.

Is B&O falling behind? Hardly. 

The retail consumer has dried up and blown away. What started with the iPod almost 10 years ago was finished by the economic hammer fall of the past year. Luxury retail is for handbags and wristwatches now. This means that Bang & Olufsen's innovations are less evident to the retail client than they were in the 60's through the 90's. If you are looking for a 40" LCD television we are nearly a preposterous choice. If you are looking to outfit a 25,000 square foot home with several dedication video zones, shared audio & video sources across all platforms, full control of lighting, windows, entryway, climate, and closed circuit surveillance, we are the most potent and cost effective option on the market. 

Search for the Beo 5 on these forums and you'll find people either puzzled by it or trying to get it to control their Sony or something. There's almost no mention of the ML Gateway, but these two products (and now the BeoSound 5 these past few months) has driven hundreds of thousands of dollars in business for my shops because they allow me to compete in a market place where Bang & Olufsen had always been an unwelcome intrusion. I don't require Crestron or AMX and their concomitant hardware and programming fees. If you think $15,000 is a lot to pay for a television, just wait until you've paid someone $15,000 to make a $1,700 television work. Sound ridiculous? Welcome to residential systems. Welcome to the world of custom AV. Do you think you need an $8,000 refrigerator to keep diet soda cold? No, but there's a Sub Zero sitting in every house I work in. That's the way of the world. So when I tell someone they can have a BeoVision 7 & a Lutron Grafik Eye in their bedroom with full touchscreen remote control for 15% less than the same setup with Crestron controlling an LG screen, I get a signature on a dotted line.

Now I'll debate you all day on the individual merits of each product. With very few exceptions, the real life performance of our products is absolutely the top of the industry or at least the best for the money. But I'll go get a scotch while those arguments play out. Or maybe I'll watch the 355f v. Razlaw reach 14 pages. 

TripEnglish wrote:

Is B&O falling behind? Hardly. 

The retail consumer has dried up and blown away.

Depends where you are Trip. In places such as London and Bath, sales in many places are UP this year. The large 'Kitchen Shop' told me last week that this is their best year in 20 years. A menswear store in town said their sales are up 5% compared to 2008, so far. London is booming due to all the tourists (British Pound is poor, so makes retail in the UK good value for those outside the country).

When you talk about custom AV Trip, you sound like your on a constant sales mission - as if you're trying to convince us that B&Os entire future is i this direction. Maybe so, but you're still selling to those rich and dumb people I mentioned above! You're just selling a few rich and dumb people, a LOT of kit.

How many people have a 25,000 square foot home? Ever been to the UK Trip? Most people live in apartments across Europe.