OKF wrote:

I totally agree with you in general but when you want to use the Ipod and the IPad e.g. in a B+O environment and get most out of these things you may end up with a jailbreak of the ATV

Yes, and as I said, buying a product and having to jailbreak/hack it to get most out of it, is not really something I want to support.

OKF wrote:

A think pad and all this Pre-PC-Devices look so horrible that I prefer to buy an Ipad now

I have no idea what you mean. A thinkpad is PC, as is MacBook. There's nothing "pre-PC" about it.I chose my Thinkpads because it's a tool and the best I could find. I don't buy my tools to be used as eye candy, so the "looks so horrible" comment is really weird too.

When it comes to my Squeezeboxes, all you see is the remote. Buying into the iPad would mean a humongous remote if used as such, it would entail buying into Apple-lockdown - hook, line and sinker.

I don't get why the best argument against much more consumer choice always seems to boil down to "but I prefer pretty things".

OKF wrote:

15 mio sold Ipad's within a year should say something...

Hype and ignorance? How many meals are sold by McDonald's each year? It really isn't an argument that X number of people have bought into it. My argument is not whether or not the iPad will fail, but an argument against lock-downs and tie-ins. Appeals to popularity is very rarely not a logical fallacy.

Apart from the telly, which I bought for two reasons (It is the best sound I can find in a small LCD tv, and secondary, as far as tellies goes, it's pretty) my gear is bought on spec and whether or not it will do what I want it to do. The latter thing could possibly be moved to "spec" too, but you get the idea.

My B&O audio gear is very limited, as not many of them live up to what I want. Regardless of how pretty they are. I used to own BL5's, but moving into an apartment meant I had to get rid of them. I bought them because they're excellent speakers, and because they're more wife-friendly than most threeway far-field studio monitors.

The reason I probably want the Encore is because it might, just might (in time) surpass the user friendliness of the Squeezebox.

Oh, and why do I have Squeezeboxes instead of Sonos? Well, they have better audio quality than the Sonos by far.

In short, your entire argument boils down to "it looks pretty, and since its popular at the moment, it must be better than anything else".

I think Laptops look terrible and common pre pc devices like the ipad do so as well.

Yes you are locked in to something same as with B+O in the very main!

15 mio ignorant people and much more to come because we are talking 1 year only? Well, well I would agree that the majority of people is sort of dumb but a certain percentage is not. Even 5% of these are still 750.000. I think the MCD comparison is lacking of any similarity. Comparing it with a car or any other lets say technical device would be appropriate.

My arguments are: it looks pretty and the overall design is clever, it is userfriendly, it connects up to a certain amount. I am not saying it is better then anything else because I do not know. But designwise it is the best I can find.

I never in my live owned an Apple product but Ipad 2 will be the first proper one, since I bought an Ipod Classsic for my car 6 months ago and last week an Ipod touch for my new B+O setup. You seem to forget that most people would not be able to jailbreak and most people would not be able to setup and opperate a NAS device. This is what e.g. ATV is for. Easy, cheap and self explaining.

OKF wrote:

I think Laptops look terrible  [...]

LOL, I see. I prefer laptops as tools compared to desktops. But then again, I buy laptops to be able to work out and about.

and common pre pc devices like the ipad do so as well.

Do you understand what "pre" means? That statement above just doesn't make sense, apart from the fact that you don't like laptops, but think that  the choice for people are between and iPad and a laptop.

OKF wrote:

15 mio ignorant people and much more to come because we are talking 1 year only? Well, well I would agree that the majority of people is sort of dumb but a certain percentage is not. Even 5% of these are still 750.000. I think the MCD comparison is lacking of any similarity. Comparing it with a car or any other lets say technical device would be appropriate.

All that is still an appeal to popularity. It really doesn't matter that you just add more figures, it's still an appeal to popularity which doesn't disprove anything I've said.

OKF wrote:

My arguments are: it looks pretty and the overall design is clever, it is userfriendly, it connects up to a certain amount. I am not saying it is better then anything else because I do not know. But designwise it is the best I can find.

Designwise it's crap if you want to use it as a remote. It's a twohanded operation and it's huge.

I really can't see you have moved on from the argument that "it's pretty, hence it's the best I can find".

OKF wrote:

I never in my live owned an Apple product but Ipad 2 will be the first proper one, since I bought an Ipod Classsic for my car 6 months ago and last week an Ipod touch for my new B+O setup. You seem to forget that most people would not be able to jailbreak and most people would not be able to setup and opperate a NAS device. This is what e.g. ATV is for. Easy, cheap and self explaining.

As I said, hype and ignorance:They aren't even aware that they're being tied into a closed eco system, but boy, '"everyone" has one, so I need to get one too'.

it is not possible to discuss that with you any further as you 'interpret' to many things into what I do write and translate them to something that I did not mean. Just read what I write. Also you state all the time that you are right and everybody else is wrong. I do not want to to approve or disapprove anything. Anyhow I am also dumb and stupid to your opinion and I can live with that.

OKF wrote:

it is not possible to discuss that with you any further as you 'interpret' to many things into what I do write and translate them to something that I did not mean. Just read what I write

LOL, I really did read what you wrote. Hence my question as to whether or not you understood what the "pre" meant.

OKF wrote:

Also you state all the time that you are right and everybody else is wrong.

No I don't. Don't make up things.

OKF wrote:

I do not want to to approve or disapprove anything

Speaking of not reading. I never said "disapprove". I said disprove.  A world of difference.

OKF wrote:

Anyhow I am also dumb and stupid to your opinion and I can live with that.

Haha! If you take it that personal, I guess you're right that it's useless having a discussion with you.

I would not use the pre if I would not know what it means...

I do not know the word disprove and was under the impression that is was a misspelling - and you see this is what I meant with you interpret something into something...and also trying to give it back e.g the not reading.

Yes I took the last posting (not the one I am ansering to now) personal because you are repeating or stressing this meinstrem issue..anyhow lets stop this discussion here otherwise I get angry and I do not want this.

OKF wrote:

I would not use the pre if I would not know what it means...

If so, you just don't make sense.

OKF wrote:

I do not know the word disprove and was under the impression that is was a misspelling - and you see this is what I meant with you interpret something into something...and also trying to give it back e.g the not reading.

Well, if you don't know the words, you're hardly the one to accuse me of reading something into what you write.

OKF wrote:

Yes I took the last posting (not the one I am ansering to now) personal because you are repeating or stressing this meinstrem issue..anyhow lets stop this discussion here otherwise I get angry and I do not want this.

Take a deep breath  and step away from any keyboard  if you get angry over someone disagreeing with you on the internet.

Electrified,

I can tell you love a good argument but in my humble opinion sometimes is wiser to stop arguing.

Now as for the "Airplay" thing which by the way is THE topic in this thread I think that any new technology is welcome "open" or "closed" which brings enterteinment and comfort and in the end is the user's option to get hooked or not by it. As a personal opinion in my case I don't really care that much about "airplay" but this weekend I will be buying my Ipad2, why? because is the most affordable piece of entertaining, good design and nice technology that I can buy for just 500 bucks, that is a pleasure to use, see and enjoy. Kind of like with most of the B&O stuff but considerably more affordable and ubiquitous.

Thanks, I agree and have tried to explain that but was not successful. I think there is not a lot of choices so I do what you do, be a dickhead andbuy this terrible Ipad2 :-)

BeoFab wrote:

Electrified,

I can tell you love a good argument but in my humble opinion sometimes is wiser to stop arguing.

Now as for the "Airplay" thing which by the way is THE topic in this thread I think that any new technology is welcome "open" or "closed" which brings enterteinment and comfort and in the end is the user's option to get hooked or not by it. As a personal opinion in my case I don't really care that much about "airplay" but this weekend I will be buying my Ipad2, why? because is the most affordable piece of entertaining, good design and nice technology that I can buy for just 500 bucks, that is a pleasure to use, see and enjoy. Kind of like with most of the B&O stuff but considerably more affordable and ubiquitous.

I agree with you BeoFab, too. I've encountered similar issues with Electrified in the past. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but there's a difference between expressing an opinion and being argumentative. This is a friendly forum and posters should be courteous and respectful.