Hi 

It's been said before, your enthusiasm is contagious🙂

Looking forward to the next batch of videos!

Strangely, just as you the BL3 is the only B&O speaker I never actually heard at all...

BEOVOX141 wrote:

Strangely, just as you the BL3 is the only B&O speaker I never actually heard at all...

I did.....and still do.

Apart from their ability to be part of a multi channel setup, they are gorgeous small speakers for a room, where you basicly move around and not alway sit still in the sweet spot.

Have fun with them, Steve....you’ll like them.

MM

Hi Steve.

If you do requests... 🙂

I have always wondered about the BL3s very small volume At lower levels its properly great, but if possible can you somehow quantify where it hits the limit, i.e at what level is all the bass boost trickery pulled back?

Thanks guys!

Yes, the "small volume" of the Beolab 3s is an interesting point.  I'm hoping to look at this in one of the upcoming videos, I also have Royd Minstrels and Beolab 4s for comparison, these speakers also have limited volume potential due to their size.  Hopefully we can quantify the limits of each speaker, plus there should be some great music to hear too........ 😐

Kind regards, Steve.

BEOVOX141 wrote:

Hi Steve.

If you do requests... 🙂

I have always wondered about the BL3s very small volume At lower levels its properly great, but if possible can you somehow quantify where it hits the limit, i.e at what level is all the bass boost trickery pulled back?

I'm afraid that your question has to be more specific. Since ABL is dynamic, then its gain at any moment in time is different at different frequencies - and dependent on the previous response to the signal that has already passed.

The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

The ABL version is "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what gain at which frequency for how long?" (ignoring any thermal protection or thermal compression compensation effects)

In addition, the ABL tuning is different for each B&O loudspeaker model. So, the answer for BeoLab 3 will be different than the answer for BeoLab anything else (due to the differences in limitations of the woofer excursions, as well as the amplifier and power supply limits).

In other words, the answer is complicated... :-)

Cheers

-g

Geoff Martin wrote:

I'm afraid that your question has to be more specific. Since ABL is dynamic, then its gain at any moment in time is different at different frequencies - and dependent on the previous response to the signal that has already passed.

I am fully aware how the ABL system works, I looked up the underlying patens 🙂 About to expire if I am not mistaken.

On a BL7 as an example its very well defined where the system really kicks in. The sound is simply different, lighter and more stressed!

A great track for testing this is Coldplay,- Adventure of a lifetime. Not your ordinary "look how great the speakers sound" track.😁 Given the right circumstances you can actually almost get a "pumping" effect from the ABL system. Its subtle but its there!

Sure its difficult to quantify, that's why i wrote "somehow", but if you are aware while testing perhaps i would be possible.

Geoff Martin wrote:

The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

Hmmm... Not sure I agree entirely, since the ABL hopefully doesn't introduce the same kind of distortion as an overloaded box speaker.Besides a BL3 is really small (3 litres, guess) and i would aspect the ABL to start working at much lower levels than say a BL7. 

Geoff Martin wrote:

BEOVOX141 wrote:

Hi Steve.

If you do requests... 🙂

I have always wondered about the BL3s very small volume At lower levels its properly great, but if possible can you somehow quantify where it hits the limit, i.e at what level is all the bass boost trickery pulled back?

I'm afraid that your question has to be more specific. Since ABL is dynamic, then its gain at any moment in time is different at different frequencies - and dependent on the previous response to the signal that has already passed.

The good thing is that, generally speaking, this question would be essentially the same for any passive speaker with an external amplifier - "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what level of distortion?" (ignoring any contribution of temperature...)

The ABL version is "what level at what frequency for what period of time creates what gain at which frequency for how long?" (ignoring any thermal protection or thermal compression compensation effects)

In addition, the ABL tuning is different for each B&O loudspeaker model. So, the answer for BeoLab 3 will be different than the answer for BeoLab anything else (due to the differences in limitations of the woofer excursions, as well as the amplifier and power supply limits).

In other words, the answer is complicated... :-)

Cheers

-g

Thanks Geoff,

That is very helpful.  The aim will be a "real world" comparison in fairly simple layman's terms, to show how the speakers will typically perform at normal listening levels in a real room environment.  The usual YMMV (your mileage may vary) caveats will be clearly stated, plus I will try to explain the variation that ABL can bring.

Due to being in a normal listening room, the room acoustics and microphone response will no doubt also have some impact (as well as the listener's own speakers, which I can't control!).  However, these should be fairly consistent across all the speakers being played.  Hence, the plan will be to show the comparative strengths and weaknesses of the speakers, rather than claiming "watch this video to hear how Beolab 3 speakers sound"........

As with all speaker demos, there is no substitute for getting out to a B&O showroom with your favourite music and listening to the speakers in person 🤒 My video will hopefully give people an indication of what to listen out for when they are auditioning the speakers for themselves and how to get the best from their visit to their local B&O store.

I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the video - I will post a link to it on this thread in the next few days once it is ready.

Kind regards, Steve.

BEOVOX141 wrote:

I am fully aware how the ABL system works, I looked up the underlying patens 🙂 About to expire if I am not mistaken.

That's not what I said. "Distortion", generally speaking means "what comes out is different from what went in" - so, even a volume knob is a kind of distortion. What most people mean when they say "distortion" is "clipping" - which is a large heading on one kind of non-linear distortion. Given this general definition, then any ABL is also a "distortion" of the signal that is introduced to prevent another kind of distortion from happening. So, yes, you're correct that ABL and a woofer driven to its excursion limits are two completely different things.  But both of those "distortions" of the signal are frequency-, level-, temperature-, and time- dependent - just with different resulting artefacts.

Regarding the relationship between enclosure volume and ABL: the question is "what effect does the enclosure volume have on the things that ABL would be "holding back" to prevent clipping of some kind. Yes, BeoLab 3 has a very small internal volume, but it also has slave drivers, which means that (for example, at the resonant frequency of the slave drivers) the excursion of the active woofer is (theoretically) ±0 mm, so ABL is not required, at that one frequency, to protect the active driver. Of course, it may be required to do something to protect the slaves from over-excursion - but we're still only focussing on one frequency. Move above that frequency by 5% (less than a semitone...) and things change. Move below it by 5%, and things change differently.

The BeoLab 7 is different, but BeoLab 7's are different from each other depending on which BeoLab 7 you're talking about.

Cheers

-geoff

@ Geoff

Not really disagreeing but please give me you take on the following statement:

The kind of "distortion" ABL introduces is benign compared to actual supply(amp) or excursion "clipping!  Isn't that the whole point of ABL ?

As to your 5% argument,- agree completely, but unfortunately that frequency range  is where your human sensory system is supported be the actual physical "feel" of the speaker energy, not just you ears! And as as such it becomes VERY apparent,- just my humble observation. 🙂 

And yes they are all different, I referer to the there 7s, as the good (7-1) the bad (7-2) and the ugly (7-6) (all positive)! and since they share the exact same drivers and filter concept the importance of the difference in volume simply can't be ignored. Actually since the 7 series is quite unique (3 sizes) I believe they really showcase the importance of volume, i.e you really compare apples to apples!

Personally I might actually prefer the 7-1 🙂

BTW You taking the time to reply her is highly appreciated,- makes you go from "myth" to an actual person! 🙂