Hi Dave and other BeoWorlders! Bang & Olufsen of Lincoln here....

Just wanted to follow up on this again. This was my response to Dave via Ebay to clarify our position on ebay listings -

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for your message, apologies for the delay in responding. I fully understand your point and to be honest, its fairly controversial to list things on ebay in this way. I don't particularly favour it but our experience over the years with ebay has proved a number of things.

We can spend many hours in our workshop testing all these aged items. A lot of time is then taken to ensure products are well protected etc but they can be damaged, PCB's dislodged etc in transit - but worse is when a customer comes back and says 'it doesn't work!' (when we know it 100% works) - our response is 'it worked here, ok, send it back, we'll refund you'. We've all lost out and we have to organise collections, returns, repairs - then we get a case opened and what did the item sell for? £50! It just isn't worth it - but then again can you imagine how we feel - and you would feel - by just chucking it in the bin?! That's the reality.

Our feeling is - lets be TRANSPARENT. We cant guarantee it does or doesn't work. Lets list it under these terms and let someone buy it, play with it, programme it, take it apart even and if they get it working - brilliant, its a bargain for them, if not, they really haven't lost out. I mean, we just sold a BV4 50 screen and floor stand for £69! Ebay is not profitable to us and you could argue it could be more profitable if we spend hours beautifully listing items of all their flaws, testing them to within an inch of their life, give a 7+ year old product a warranty, a guarantee etc. If you want that level of service and quality on older, discontinued items then go to Lifestyle AV. They are THE best used retailer on the market, but you will pay for that service.

People, in my opinion, are on ebay looking for B&O because the used sites are still not cheap enough for them. Only discontinued items are listed. If they don't sell, they actually go in the bin. I could send BeoWorld a list weekly pre-ebay list if you think that's better?

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I have some things that are about to go on ebay today but as discussed with Dave Farr, Ive delayed the start of the listings until Monday evening at 6pm to begin.  I can post the list on the for sale section and listen to offers until Monday evening before they go live.  However we are not giving them away as per Lee's suggestion, this is to prevent having to list them on ebay.  These are things Lee would never be interested in purchasing so I see no harm there but this is his site so its up to you Lee?  Let me know and we'll post the list.  Thanks, Michael

Gavin, that is why I tend to purchase from dealers like STB Brackets and Quality Dream Audio.  You can make direct contact and if you have issues (thankfully with yourselves and QDA I have never had a problem) can be immediately resolved with a quick telephone call.  I too over the years when contacting some B & O dealers found them very 'aloof' and most unhelpful.  In fact, my local area B & O registered dealer are less than helpful and unless you are purchasing bang up to date equipment they just don't want to know.  B & O should be informed of this as it does not do their name a terrible lot of good in the general marketplace.

Prof D

Dave I agree with you totally on this.  I do not like buying from EBay especially from a supplier that I do not know.  I must say that in all the years I have been dealing with Quality Dream Audio (in purchasing and using QDA for repairs and servicing) I never had a problem.  QDA reply immediately to your emails and indeed they are easily accessible by telephone.  Strangely enough, I first found this company looking through EBay and then contacted them direct, since that time I have had no problems.  If I have been looking for something specific QDA have always been on hand to assist me in finding it.

Stick with companies you know and I have found that companies, such as, Quality Dream Audio know far more than our recommended B & O Retailers on the High Street.  My local B & O are pretty useless unless you are purchasing bang up to date equipment, they don't want to know about earlier, or indeed don't know about B & O equipment. Surely, a B & O recommended retailer should have enough interest in the goods and the company that they are selling for to be able to assist those people who want or own 'vintage' equipment. 

It is a terrible indictment (personally speaking) for B & O High Street Retailers who are totally disinterested in older versions or just don't want to be bothered to assist the B & O enthusiast, thankfully we have companies like Quality Dream Audio who are more than willing to assist. 

Prof D

Professor David A Flynn JP wrote:

It is a terrible indictment (personally speaking) for B & O High Street Retailers who are totally disinterested in older versions or just don't want to be bothered to assist the B & O enthusiast, thankfully we have companies like Quality Dream Audio who are more than willing to assist.

Hi David,

it's an interesting and complex one in many ways.  It sometimes disappoints me that we get stories of a B&O repair shop who just say 'it can't be fixed' etc when we know it can.  However, the B&O repair shop is set-up to service modern day units which have module based service parts.  Some of them though highly skilled and trained, do not work at component level and possibly haven't even handled a soldering iron in a while.  It is also unrealistic to expect a repair shop to service all past models.  We actually have specialists to do that, much as we do for Classic cars for example.  If a B&O repair shop worked on a component based system can you imagine what the cost would be as I expect their hourly rate is horrendous.  Could they even diagnose the problem if it isn't module based?

We don't expect a high street car dealer/repair shop to be able to do repair and service work on a 60 year old car - I wouldn't trust them to anyway.  It's the same with Hi-fi and B&O units.  I'd trust experts here on Beoworld to do the work but not a B&O repair shop.  The issue comes when they say they can't service items that are within the 10 year servicibility period B&O say they have but don't operate.

The high street B&O stores are there to sell todays items and stock and to give help and advice on new equipment.  Some stores are lucky enough to have staff who are interested in the brand enough to know or appreciate the more vintage stuff but they are few and far between.

If we can now have access to more equipment that may be of benefit to us from Sykes114 via Beoworld, I'm all for it.  I hope it works out OK.

Dave.

Hello Dave - yes I do accept your answers to my post, but it is rather a pity that new staff are not given a thorough induction into B & O now. 

I remember when purchasing my first system from the Old Gramophone Shop in Belfast - Harold, the salesman, could have given you a full oversight on all the systems he sold, including what previous systems did and how B & O developed the newer systems.

You would think that with the resurgence in vintage systems now and especially with the uptake on the production of vinyls that more B & O suppliers would be only too ready to embrace 'the old'.  One, nowadays, does not expect the 'young generation' of salespeople to take much interest in the repair and servicing, but it would be beneficial to B & O suppliers if they researched enough information to give the necessary assistance when required. 

After all, if you receive good service and assistance from suppliers; you will return, and may purchase spares and equipment from that retailer: rather than be given the 'brush off', with quips like "Equipment manufactured before 2013 we don't deal with"!

Prof D👍

I understand now where B&O Lincoln are coming from and having tried to sell some of my old stuff to make way for new am sympathetic as eBay are always in favour of the buyer - I sold some Beovox Pentas that were mint and the buyer launched a complaint against me as a) he didn't realise how old they were and b) he said they were damaged and dented - we played back the CCTV from when he collected them (as I was out) and you could plainly see them being thrown into the back of builders van! so I got a black mark against me and had to pay him compensation. On another occasion I listed a Beolab 2000 and withdrew it early, unfortunately I ended it in some way that the highest bidder got it for £9.99 - clearly it was a mistake but the guy kept hassling and emailing me, almost bullying by threatening to reduce my 100% status - he did and eBay came out in favour of him but i kept the beolab!. Buyers seem to be quite nasty these days and it has made sellers construct their adverts to make it very clear what their terms are and what does and doesn't work - if they didn't then they end up with negative feedback which then just puts people off buying from them.

I feel sorry for the good guys out there (lifestyle, stenna AV and QDA etc) as there are now so many people just getting stuff cheaply and then saying they are the leading experts etc or trained engineers or something or other. At the end of the day just buy from who you feel comfortable buying from. I now just give stuff to the local charity shop rather than ebay it as I cant be bothered with the hassle from purchasers and as a private seller I get so little as people wait till the final few seconds but there are hundreds of watchers. 

Like MM I would rather go and see something and who I am buying it from (unless it's a known supplier) - even if it does cost more and is more hassle. eBay I've noticed is spoilt now with too many chancers or peopler trying to make a quick buck jumping on the B&O used bandwagon and too many nasty buyers. It's a shame as it used to be fun. 

Professor David A Flynn JP wrote:

but it is rather a pity that new staff are not given a thorough induction into B & O now.

Now that, I agree with.  They just don't seem to appreciate the history of the company, nor the development and innovation that B&O have helped introduce.

Yes, there is a resurgence in vinyl purchasing but as B&O no longer make TT's, it's hardly surprising that a salesperson wouldn't show any interest.  It's a shame as I always enjoyed chatting to my old dealers (Wilmslow, Horsham, Mulhouse) about the older systems and equipment.  That then in turn lead me to other purchases of newer equipment which was beneficial to the dealers.

It's all about sales and profit margins rather than customer service.  Unfortunately, knowledgable staff such as in the recently closed shop in Liverpool found that being helpful and knowledgable to customers wasn't enough to keep the store open.

Dave.

It's funny how much praise QDA gets here. I bought once on ebay from them, never again.

The item did not work (I paid a lot for it, so it should have worked), and they ignored my emails until the period I could leave feedback lapsed. They then basically responded with 'bad luck' and offered nothing in compensation.

I guess we all have differing experiences, but i wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy

well i must say i am not surprised , if your buying second hand , buy private and test before you buy. i digress a little , i have a showbike , it appears at the nec. all the work was done in usa canada the far east and germany. notice no uk mentioned? in uk they want your money , but dont want the work or commitment.

Jonathan - thanks for your post regarding my experiences with Quality Dream Audio, I can only state as I find.  In dealing with this company over a number of years now I have nothing but praise for them.  I always go to their on-line website to view and purchase, and indeed, have emailed and telephoned the company looking for equipment and advice.  All I can say is that QDA have always been most helpful and in many cases have gone out of their way to assist me.

I have purchased equipment from this company that arrived with me damaged by the Courier not QDA and after one telephone call my issue was resolved most satisfactorily.  In all my dealings with QDA whether in purchasing or having them repair and service B & O equipment, I have found the company most professional.  Hence my praise for QDA in print.

Prof D🙂