I'am sorry to say, but I think You missed the point.

Paypal was never offered any kind of an "insurence" or "refund" about any purchased item, as they were just offered the ability to pay via their company, as Paypal is a money sending company, just like Western Union.

After Paypal was purchased by Ebay, Ebay were created a totally brand new protection system, and it was called  "Buyer Paypal protection", but from the very first time it was limited only to the items, which were purchased via Ebay.

In other words, this means, that EBAY is the company WHO takes the responsibility about the goods You purchesed VIA their site, IF YOU USE PAYPAL, and of course Ebay will not take the responsibility in any other cases.

It's just a surplus on Paypal that You can claim about an item, which were not arrived, but as somebody else said: Paypal is just like a bank, they are not a jury, and they hasen't got any resources to investigate a claim about "item not as described".

Anyway I simply can not understand, why You were made this business outside Ebay? If You were agreed in the price, then the regular way is to simply lower the price by the seller, and You can immediately buy it, and pay it via Paypal... I've did it several times, and there was never any problem with it.

Here is a thought:

How do you pay your PayPal bill? I pay mine through a credit card. Does that mean I am covered by the bank too? Does this help? 

Paypal, as of recently, has become extremely risky for sellers;

You sell something on Ebay, pack it extremely well and send it around the world.
Somewhere on its way, it gets run over by a forklift and arrives completely shattered.
The buyer signs for it.
The buyer starts a Paypal dispute for an item "not as decribed".
24 hours later the buyer escalates the dispute to a claim.
Paypal decides in favour of the buyer and refunds both the items ending price and
the expensive shipping cost out of the sellers account.
AND - decides that the buyer can keep the item !

Being a vintage B&O it will still, even if damaged, hold a considerable parts value.

Ebay rules are very clear, that in "item not as described"-cases, the buyer must return the
unwanted item to qualify for a refund (of course) and that was also the rules that
applied to the Ebay listing. But Ebay regulations are set aside when payment is done
using Paypal, so Ebay told me. In that case only Paypals rules are valid and
they are fluffy to say the least.

Just had a case like this.

Clearly:
- The buyer should never have signed for the package. He should have rejected it and claimed a refund
from the shipping company (which I actually tried to help him with but the 24 hours I had was a saturday
and not enough for the shipping company to answer my email).
- Starting a Paypal dispute for an "item not as described" is very unfair since
it was the actual item, a unique vintage B&O.
But it all worked fine for him.

I am currently awaiting the result of my appeal of this unfair case but of course, I am now considering
alternatives to Paypal like. f.e. Moneybookers or maybe even Real Merchant, at least
for transactions involving larger amounts.
Paypal may be attractive for new buyers but how much is that worth if noone dares
to sell anything ?

Martin

If the transaction was wholly in the UK then you may be covered by the 'Distance Selling regulations(2000)

link

link

Martin;

You make a very good point, and something I need to clarify regarding PAYPAL.

In both of our claims, which were large value items, the damage clearly resulted in the shipment process. We did not anticipate the shipper to hole the carton ( in one incident  ) with a forklift and the leather chair arm inside, anymore than the seller did. As buyer and seller we both expected something more professional than masking tape over the holed and stating they were not responsible.

The ever-innocent shipper asked to see our insurance policy. We had not done this. Is the buyer or the seller also to take out an insurance policy for EBAY-PAYPAL transactions ?  In hindsight, perhaps.

However, in both cases, PAYPAL required the items to be returned to the seller FIRST, via a tracking numbbefore repayment was made to us. PAYPAL also stipulated the return of the damaged items was at our cost.

We found that remarkably, that our cost was one third of that charged originally to us by seller. 

Martin;

You make a very good point.

In our two claims, PAYPAL did require the return of the damaged items to the seller first, before our repayment. We also did this at our cost, another PAYPAL stipulation.

In one case, neither of us (the seller or buyer) expected the shipper to hole the carton with a forklift, tearing into a leather chair inside, and just tape it over. The shipper's response ?  " Damage unknown to us " and " Are you covered by an insurance policy ? "  A wonderful deflection of responsibility, and perhaps there is some merit to insurance for large expensive items. But does the buyer or seller purchase said policy ?

Both sellers and buyers suffer the consequences of the " Jim Carrey-Pet Detective " shipping professionals on an ongoing basis, who are never, ever found at fault. Damaged shipment received ?  Stipulate returning it back to the seller before allowing repayment.

Paypal has always been risky, just has become riskier... I only use it as a last resort after my Bl7000 stand went "missing" despite having proof of postage.

I have had a very similar experience when buying something outside of ebay.  The item (an automotive air bag control box) was sold to me as a fully working unit - well, it didn't work, and being an auto electrician I knew this was the cause of the problem.  The seller would not refund claiming I had damaged the unit when fitting it.  Paypal would not refund because the transaction had been carried out outside of ebay.  I then put a claim to my credit card that I used to pay for the item and they eventually refunded the full amount.  I don't know if they recovered it from the seller but hey!, I was satisfied with the outcome.

The thing to remember is that most (if not all) credit card providers give a 90 day warranty on any goods purchased using their card.  I always use it when buying goods, especially on ebay where one doesn't know the integrity of the seller, and it can be a useful second insurance if Paypal let you down.  So Jonnie, if you used a credit card to buy this and you are still within the 90 day limit you may be able to make a claim.

Alex

Wow, sympathy for Paypal ?? That makes me feel kinda queasy.

Far from it!  It was my credit card that provided the refund, not Paypal.