Jonnie

I am sorry that you are going though this and that you are the one who has been left out of pocket.

That said, I do have some sympathy with Paypal in this situation.

Presumably you became aware that the speakers were on sale and then decided to conduct the transaction privately in order to avoid eBay fees etc. Having declined to conduct the transaction on eBay it seems ironic that you then rely on the eBay description in making your case to PayPal for a refund. Many people here have learned the hard way that Paypal almost always rule in favour of the seller on eBay transactions so your chances would have been good.

I do not know the seller but you have been active here for long enough for me to trust you when you say you have been shafted. That said I dont think PayPal can be asked to intervene in purely private transactions as thay have no way of knowing what disussions took place between you prior to the sale.

I know this will seem unpalatabe to you right now but the main warning I would take away from this is never be tempted to go 'off eBay' unless you are going to be inspecting and collecting the goods yourself. I have made precisely this mistake in the past and lost all my money, but fortunately for a much smaller amount.    

Caveat Emptor applies here I am afraid, all you can do now is look at what Civil remedies are available to you.

Simon

Hi Simon, I totally understand your coments.

 We conducted the sale through paypal and I sent a note with the payment to the effect of, 'payment for beolab 3 speaker stands in excellent condition'. This is only the info paypal would have been privy to if the transaction had been conducted through ebay. The sellers description was very basic as was his photo.

  My point is, paypal bang on about their protection policies. It is complete rubbish, they are saying if you use paypal to buy anything then they only will interviene if the goods do not arrive. This leaves a massive loophole for people to send goods of inferior quality. I asked them if one stand had arrived would I have a case. The answer is no as it is my word against the sellers about the contents. once you sign for delivery then tough. I suggest opening the packaging and test the goods before you sign. Don't imagine the driver will be too impressed though!

  Jonnie

Whilst I can sympathise with your obvious disappointment, I can't see why your gripe is with PayPal.  Surely they're just the method of payment?  You could equally have sent a cheque in the post - would you have asked your bank to refund you?

Buying something on eBay is a bit different as they effectively sell the product on behalf of the original seller and take a fee for doing so.

Caveat emptor indeed.

Seller emailed me to say they did not have the t-shirt in stock, but refused to refund.

Raise a dispute with Paypal, and even though they decided in my favour, they never refunded me.

The problem comes from the fact that Paypal is doing a lot of adverts saying they are safe and garanteed, and that you get your money back when something goes wrong and that is why you should use it. But when you have a problem, they always find a reason in a fine print not to refund you.

p.

Paypal is mainly advertising itself as having the buyer/seller protection for purchases on ebay.  Outside of that it is not clear at all.

Buying on ebay throug Paypal, will give you the financial protection you need if something is going wrong with the seller...

Cheers,

Guy

PAYPAL does work to protect the buyer and seller.

First PAYPAL and EBAY are the same company. Going outside of this relationship can lead to consequences: Read the rules, and stay within the agreement terms.

Second I have had two disputes for damaged goods received with PAYPAL-paid items purchased on EBAY. Both were major cost items, and  completelydamaged in the shipping process. I filed a complaint ( documenting everything with photographs and a logical, unemotional written description of events ) for " Items received not as described " and in both cases was fully repaid.

It works very well, but stay within the system.

Even though Paypal and ebay are in conjunction. Paypal itself is now seen, advertised and accepted as a payment option for all types of goods from outside of ebay. This is my point. To pay via paypal for none ebay items leaves you with problems if the goods are not as described.

  They do not cover this, only if the goods do not arrive will they get involved. This to my mind is unfair. To be transparent they should limit their involvement to ebay alone to save confusion.

 I too have had items that have been covered because I bought through ebay via paypal with no problem.

  Hope this explains my frustration.

  Jonnie

I know what you're saying Jonnie - if paypal is accepted as payment, whatever the circumstances, then you should be entitled to the same cover offered as a buyer from ebay. I suppose they are only interested in protecting the ebay arm of their business to dissuede people making deals off of ebay. Looks like it works as well & I suppose you just have to put it down to experience.

chris.