tournedos wrote:

 There's so much else in a CD than the platter drive that actually can and does make a difference, even measureably so.

I agree.   Personally I would never pay 65k for a cd player, even if I were a billionaire.  I think the best value for high quality cd player right now is one from Philips from 80's.

I'm sure one can find a better cd player than that, but at what price, 2k, 3k, 10k?  and how much better?  A lot? or just a bit?

tournedos wrote:

The problem with high-end hifi industry is that they mix proper engineering standpoints, stuff that can perhaps be just heard, and plain voodoo.

I agree, and that is one reason why I usually stay away from "audiophile" grade stuff.    Mcintosh is the exception though.  Btw. Mcintosh is not the most expensive brand out there, there are other amps far more expensive than Mcintosh, and I actually prefer the sound of Mcintosh.

tournedos wrote:

Along with the vinyl, they lost one huge point over which to argue (belt vs. direct drive, and the quality of either), so it is only natural that they try to carry it over. I'm sure that Burmeister sounds great, but I firmly believe that has nothing to do with the belt drive, the spikes nor the elaborate suspension...

Even if it has, I wouldn't pay for it, even if I were a billionaire.

tournedos wrote:

Getting back to the charter (and the other topic you started), I believe you would be happy with either a 4000 or 4002. Any of the B&O tangentials will be easy on your rare vinyl since the stylus force is so low. It would be much easier to get a good cartridge for the 8002 which uses a MMCx, though.

Thanks for the heads up.  

Actually MMC20 cartridges are no more difficult. Soundsmith ones are just the MMC1-4 range in a suitable shell and Axel does the retipping on old ones.

In my view the Beogram 4000 is the absolute standout in this august group. I own a 4000, 4002, 4004, 1602, 8000, and 8002.

One only has to open up these turntables to be struck by the incredible quality of the 4000 series with the 4000 being in a class by itself.

In contrast the 8000 and 8002 looks positively cheap by comparison.

I am not denigrating the 8000 series as I hold both the 8000 and 8002 in very high regard.

Currently my best sounding turntable is the 8002 with its wonderful MMC2 cartridge. However with a proper MMC20CL (either rebuilt or Soundsmiths) I have NO doubt that the 4000 would stand supreme.

Having said that I am absolutely thrilled by my “lesser” 4000 series turntables. Either 4002 or 4004 would make a superb addition to anyone’s audio collection. Both are remarkable turntables and esthetically flawless.

Much can be said about having a beltless drive but I don’t know that a belted drive like the one on the 4000 series is a liability.

I wouldn’t part with any of my turntables, but if I HAD to choose just one, there is NO question it would be the Beogram 4000 with its Swiss AC motor, strobe, record position indicator (silly, but attractive), and its ability to transform vinyl into a virtual concert hall.

Jeff

Piaf wrote:

 

 

I wouldn’t part with any of my turntables, but if I HAD to choose just one, there is NO question it would be the Beogram 4000 with its Swiss AC motor, strobe, record position indicator (silly, but attractive), and its ability to transform vinyl into a virtual concert hall.

 

Jeff

Thank you for your input.   Now I know which one I should be hunting for.

A noble goal, to be sure, however these beasts do NOT travel well and none were imported to North America. Also, do keep in mind that if a 4000 has not been properly serviced in the last few years, it will require a good deal of work from an above average shop.

Good luck in your search.

Jeff

I would agree - I know of only three people who I would have real confidence in fixing these and two are in Denmark.

Peter is absolutely right and shipping to Denmark is frighteningly expensive! And then there is the ornery Danish Customs that insist on charging customs fees as if the Beogram were a gift, not one for repair…..adding to the costs.

Jeff

Piaf wrote:

.... to be sure, however these beasts do NOT travel well and none were imported to North America.

I never knew that.  Thanks for heads up.

Piaf wrote:

Also, do keep in mind that if a 4000 has not been properly serviced in the last few years, it will require a good deal of work from an above average shop.

Well, that is to be taken for granted for all vintages except the ones serviced very recently.

Peter wrote:

I would agree - I know of only three people who I would have real confidence in fixing these and two are in Denmark.

Wow!  I guess that means there's none in U.S.?

Piaf wrote:

Peter is absolutely right and shipping to Denmark is frighteningly expensive! And then there is the ornery Danish Customs that insist on charging customs fees as if the Beogram were a gift, not one for repair…..adding to the costs.

 

Jeff

Well, so much for my aspiration of someday sending one to Dillen the master for fix up.