I am impressed; you have done your homework.

I maybe in a really good position to answer your questions as well as those you failed to ask due to the fact that I own a Beogram 4000, 4002, 4004, 8000, and 8002.

These are all excellent turntables and in good serviced condition all would serve you exceptionally well. No exceptions!

Is one better than the other? Ask that question of five B&O fans and you will likely get five different answers.

For me the best of this group, although you didn’t mention the 4000 is the 4000, hands down. Unbelievably over-engineered, beautifully built, and the style is in a class by its own. That said, it is a nightmare to work on.

The 4002 is easier to work on, but NOT easy. When these turntables were new, it was “fairly” simple, but as they age, parts wear, screws loosen, etc. You adjust one thing and two others require attention. It can be maddening. Also capacitors are now beginning to fail which will cause all sorts of issues.

The 8000 is indeed beltless, but mine groans when it starts (there goes quieter operation) and the dustcover is a flimsy embarrassment to those who designed it. CHEAP! It also had over 100 bad solder points which Martin so kindly took care of for me.

Yes, the Tacho disc degrades over time, but that is a snap to replace and replacements are readily available.

The 8002 is similar to the 8000, just updated. It can play a record up to ten times as opposed to the two plays of the 8000.

Is the MMC1 better than the MMC20CL…. no, I don’t think so, just smaller. They are both very, very good.  

You mentioned that the MMC1-5 is newer than the MMC20CL (and others), but that is meaningless because the condition of the cartridge depends on use, how it was stored, and (sorry) dumb luck.

My best cartridge is the MMC20CL on my Beogram 4000, BUT it was my own discarded cartridge my dealer advised me to change, and I simply kept it.

I have a NOS MMC20CL on my Beogram 4004 which is fine, but doesn’t come near to my old cartridge. Why? On that, I am confident no one knows, it just is.

So what to do? First since all these turntables are wonderful equipment, you need to decide which one you like best: looks, belt-less, whatever your criteria.

Then search for the one you want in properly serviced condition. And when I say this I mean serviced by a professional, not “tested” meaning the seller knew enough to press the ON button.

With a well serviced Beogram, any of the ones you mentioned, I promise you, you can’t go wrong.

One codicil, make CERTAIN that your seller knows exactly how to ship your Beogram. All mine but one arrived in various states of damage, from slight to catastrophic!

Let us know what you decided to buy!

Jeff

I've owned all three as well.

My vote is for the 8002, but only after it's been re-capped and re-flowed, and had a quick look at lubrication and basic settings. The 4002/4s scare me when I see how much old stuff there is to go wrong. They ARE built better than the 800x series, but more complex and finicky in my experience. And they don't look as cool as the eights in my eyes.

Once that is done, I would expect it to perform wonderfully for a very long time. And you already have a quite good cartridge for it. If you get an 8002 with a good cart, I'd just put the RX aside and sit on the second cart. Actually, I've had no problems with failures but I still horde them! Gotta give that up!

pfcs49 wrote:

I've owned all three as well.

My vote is for the 8002, but only after it's been re-capped and re-flowed, and had a quick look at lubrication and basic settings. The 4002/4s scare me when I see how much old stuff there is to go wrong. They ARE built better than the 800x series, but more complex and finicky in my experience. And they don't look as cool as the eights in my eyes.

Once that is done, I would expect it to perform wonderfully for a very long time. And you already have a quite good cartridge for it. If you get an 8002 with a good cart, I'd just put the RX aside and sit on the second cart. Actually, I've had no problems with failures but I still horde them! Gotta give that up!

I don’t believe that age has much to do with it at this point; both 4000 and 8000 series Beograms are pretty senior.

A properly serviced 4000 series turntable will give its owners decades of enjoyment, as will the 8000 series.

Is the 8000 series less problematic? I will leave that to the experts here on this forum, but personally, I doubt it. True there is no belt to go bad, but the 4000 series was better built than its replacement... more mechanical, less electronic.

My Beogram 4004 is original, never worked on, and that alone gives me pause for concern. This is my really “good” turntable, never once needing even the slightest adjustment in over 7 years. However the wonderful performance does not negate the fact that this Beogram is WAY overdue for service. This is a warning.

The Beogram 4000 gets the title of most difficult to work upon, however a notable second place goes to the Beogram 4002…… the one Customs Canada thought was a bomb and treated it accordingly. It arrived in deplorable condition, really wacked during the “investigation.”

I have lost count how many times this turntable needed adjustments and one fix ruined something else. Hours and hours were spent on it, and still it misbehaved. HOURS!

However once I got everything right, it stayed right. I believe it has been five years since I needed to do anything with this turntable other then replace two missing feet. (Thank you Martin!)

My advice is DON’T buy an 8000 series because it is newer; buy it because you like it better than the 4000 series. If you prefer the 4000 series, buy one of them.

However buying any one of these turntables that hasn’t be serviced by someone who knows B&O products is a huge gamble because even unused: “My elderly aunt brought it but never used it….” the capacitors dry out, lubrication fails, etc.

My 4000, 8000, and 8002 have been rebuilt…. the 4002 and 4004 have not, so it is only a matter of time.

Jeff

Jeff,
   Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Truth be told, I was a bit embarrassed to ask the question, realizing the information is likely already on this forum and it’s mainly laziness that’s keeping me from digging further.  I also realize that to a certain extent I’m asking people to figure out what it is I really want and then tell me what to do, which is patently unfair and my own responsibility.  Your advice about picking an aspect I like best and then going from there is very good (and probably what I’ve been avoiding as they are all so very appealing in their own ways!).  It’s also reassuring to hear that I won’t go wrong regardless of the choice.  I was originally dead set on the Beogram 8002, as that was the top of the line model that was out of reach when I bought my RX in 1984 and what’s stayed in memory all these years.  The hunt’s broaden a bit to now include the 8000 and 4002 after I found a reputable professional offering a restored example of each.  Unfortunately, I’ve not seen a 4000 for sale on this side of the pond, as I probably wouldn’t be in this quandary if I had.  As you've confirmed, it seems the one to get.  I will definitely post an update when I figure out which way to go.  Thanks again for the advice,

Charley

Hi Charley,

You should NEVER be embarrassed to ask a question, especially a well thought out question such as yours.

Let me share this, I never intended to have five Beograms, but like you I researched and acquired the 4002 and 4004….. and THEN I found the 4000. I have never seen a 4000 for sale in North America before or since.

The Beogram 4000 is my “crown jewel” and it is cared for accordingly.

I already had my old 8000 which I couldn’t get repaired, hence the replacement turntables. But then I found Martin and the 8000 was fixed….. and after that I wanted to try a 8002.

Back to you, you picked up on my most important point: You can NOT go wrong with any of your choices, and that is a fact.

If you have a local professional offering an 8000 and 4002, the choice is up to you.

Either way I have one more piece of advice, ONLY go with a MMC20CL cartridge. Enough said.

Jeff

What about the MMC6000? 😉

Hi,

I can only tell you about the Beogram 4000, 4002, and 6006/8000 that I have or had.

To me, the absolute best is the Beogram 4000, or perhaps an early 4002 with the heavy platter. When buying a 4002, it is always a good idea to ask for that information.

The Beogram 8000 has the advantage of accepting the 20CL, but I've read that the 8002 has a better platter. Not retrofittable to the 8000.

The 8000 is very silent and the growl is perfectly normal Jeff! It sounds fine. You'd be hardly pressed to tell them all apart sound wise anyway.

The MMC6000 has its followers, Adam Smith of Hifi News being one! Others say it's an impossible one, due to the special Pramanik profile of the tip - only the best condition records will play well. It was really intended for quadraphonic LPs.

I used to have a similar Shibata tip and it never was satisfactory. It was fantastic on good records though.

But then any MMC will be useable because the re-tipping job can be done according to budget. So a basic MMC20S can be fitted a 20CL tip is so desired. 

Hi Jacques,

I am delighted that you agree with me vis-à-vis the Beogram 4000 being the best of the best. I feel in such august company! It really is true, just put a 4000 next to a 4002 and there will be very, very little to say.

The MMC 6000 cartridge is an excellent one, very similar to the MMC20CL, only the 6000 is quadraphonic. The thing about the 6000 aside from its picky nature is that (in Peter’s words) it is the uncontested world’s best record cleaner.

You gotta know I keep my records clean, but never clean enough for the MMC 6000 which always finds more crud. I use a 6000 on my Beogram 8000 with good result….. except that you have to clean it after every five or six plays.

And yes I know the growl on the 8000 is normal. However thank you for the reassuring words. My 8000 is a cobbled collection of several 8000’s and at one time I was concerned that I hadn’t got it all quite right. Truth is for a “Frankenstein” turntable, it turned out rather well….. and thoroughly dependable after Martin completely rebuilt the motherboard.

Back to the MMC 6000, does that answer your question?

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

thanks for all of your insightful information. I have two Beogram 4000s. Unfortunately one has a broken mount on the tonearm. The other one has noisy motors. Therefore, I've decided to make one out of the two. It's a pity but when the tonearm is broken, there's hardly any hope.

I have an integrated RIAA in my Beomaster 7000 and intend to use the Beogram 4000 with my Beosystem 7000 and Pentas. I'm curious finding out how that goes. Heven't read much on here about how combining old and new in that form works.

Greetings,

Kai,

who likes the MMC6000 very much ;-)