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The best vintage system

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Peter
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Peter Posted: Sun, Feb 5 2012 8:16 PM

Which Beosystem do you think is the most desirable - please vote but also post your reasoning.

Which is the most desirable vintage system (post 1965)

This is really to test the poll system!

  • Beolab 5000 system with Beogram 3000 Thorens (16%)
  • Beosystem 4400 with Beogram 4002 and Beocord 5000 (6%)
  • Beosystem 8000 with Beogram 8002 and Beocord 9000 (26%)
  • Beosystem 7000 incuding Beolink 7000 (30%)
  • Beosystem 6000 quad with Beogram 6000 (10%)
  • Beosystem 4500 with wall brackets (12%)
You voted for 'Beosystem 7000 incuding Beolink 7000'.
  • Total Votes: 50

Peter

Søren Mexico
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It must be the classic BM/BL 5000 and the Thorens, there may be better TTs out there but non more beautiful.

But for me the best vintage are the ones I bought, got down here to Mexico with all the work it took, refurbished, had problems with and somehow got working properly, I'm proud of every one of themSmile My first smiley, a little radical I must say.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

beocool
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beocool replied on Mon, Feb 6 2012 4:20 AM

7000 system for me... I have two. I will however try and sell both of them this year. 

 

Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen! 

Stonk
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Stonk replied on Mon, Feb 6 2012 6:45 PM

The only one I've ever owned was the 4500 but I lean towards the 8000. If I had the room for a vintage system this is probably the one.

If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of payments.

chartz
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chartz replied on Mon, Feb 6 2012 6:50 PM

It has to be the complete Beolab 5000, because I've already got the Beosystems 6000 and 8000, as well as the Beomaster 4400/Beogram 4000/Beocord 5000 4715 (which works great, yes it does!)!

I really need - nay crave - the Beovox 5000s, in whatever version, with or without the cubes!

Jacques

Nick
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Nick replied on Mon, Feb 6 2012 7:23 PM

I like the look of the 7000!  nothing to do with sounds quality

9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Mon, Feb 6 2012 8:04 PM

Beolab 5000 for me.  Made before i was born, but you can't ignore the hugely advanced engineering at the time. A pure classic.

Lee

chartz
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chartz replied on Mon, Feb 6 2012 8:28 PM

I was 3!

Jacques

Rich
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Rich replied on Tue, Feb 7 2012 2:48 AM

I voted for the 8000 system mainly because of the amplifier output capability.  I tend to listen to my classic rock LOUD.  My first amplifier was a Phase Linear 400, and ever since, I'm a sucker for the most powerful amp in the room.

I am quite happy with my BM4000/BG4002/Beovox M70 system though.


Søren Mexico
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Rich:
I am quite happy with my BM4000/BG4002/Beovox M70 system though.

Cant wait to get my Bvox 3702 going, that BM 4000 is way over my expectations, and this week my newly bought BG CD50 and Beocord 5000, should arrive to McAllen.

@Rich: If I remember right you put some high class caps in on of your speaker sets, how was the sound difference if any ??

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Søren Mexico
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Seams to work, cant vote again.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Søren Mexico
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Søren Mexico:

Seams to work, cant vote again.

This was for another post, will go back to the thread and try again

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Søren Mexico
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Søren Mexico:

Søren Mexico:

Seams to work, cant vote again.

This was for another post, will go back to the thread and try again

 

No, it was OK this thread, getting fuzzy, was checking Peters vote for vintage

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Rich
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Søren Mexico:

Rich:
I am quite happy with my BM4000/BG4002/Beovox M70 system though.

Cant wait to get my Bvox 3702 going, that BM 4000 is way over my expectations, and this week my newly bought BG CD50 and Beocord 5000, should arrive to McAllen.

@Rich: If I remember right you put some high class caps in on of your speaker sets, how was the sound difference if any ??

The short answer is, I didn't do any listening tests, so I can't tell you if there was a sound difference.

The long answer:

I bought my first pair of M70s around the beginning of my second to last semester of graduate school, when I was taking a class called Advanced Design of Experiments.  DOE uses ANOVA and other mathematical techniques to speed the research process.  Whereas the "wrong, old-school" thinking regarding experimentation has you change but a single parameter at a time, DOE sets up a series of experiments where different factors are run in combination of changes, all the data analyzed as one giant set of data, and the appropriate factor levels for the best response are determined.

For example, say you know temperature and relative humidity are important for the cure time of a painting process.  You want to maximize productivity (throughput) by minimizing cure time.  The ranges you have are 60 to 80 degrees and 40 to 70 percent relative humidity.  You suspect there is a linear relationship, so you just run your experiments at the high and low end.  A so-called full-factorial experiment would have the following runs:

1.  60 degrees, 40%

2.  60 degrees, 70%

3.  80 degrees, 40%

4.  80 degrees, 70%

Say for run 1 you got 3.5 hours, for 2 3.4 hours, for 3 2.3 hours, and for 4 2.4 hours.  You can see that humidity had little or no effect, and that temperature had the biggest effect.  What's even more important, and this is the whole key to both ANOVA and DOE, the INTERACTION between temperature and humidity had little effect as well.

What's missing from the old-school of one factor at a time experimentation is the inability to determine if INTERACTIONS amongst the factors has any effect on the response.

OK, so background out of the way.

I used the M70s in my Advanced Design of Experiments project.  I designed an experiment with the following factors:

Tilt:  0 degrees, 3.5 degrees, 7 degrees

Capacitors:  Solen Polypropylene versus ERSE Electrolytics

Height of stands:  0 inches (no stands), 6", 12", 18"

Damping material:  original B&O, one sheet of new denser material, two sheets of the new denser material

A full factorial experiment would have meant over 1000 runs!  However, I used Minitab to reduce the number of runs to a manageable 70 or so.  The "response" I used was a crude measurement of frequency response.  The frequency response curve was judged for flatness and bass extension.

My results indicated a tilt between 3.5 and 7 degrees best; no difference in capacitors; stand height between 6 and 12 inches best; and one sheet of denser damping material best.

Here's the external breadboard I used during the experiment.

 



jam57
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jam57 replied on Tue, Feb 7 2012 8:57 PM

I voted for the Beosystem 8000. I've never owned one but this was top of the line when I first discovered B&O.The Beovirus sure can last a long time!

John

Søren Mexico
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Rich:

The short answer is, I didn't do any listening tests, so I can't tell you if there was a sound difference.

The long answer:

Thanks Rich, but we are back to positioning speakers, close to or far from wall, corner, wall cover and incline, I think that caps quality are second to positioning and room type.

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Evan
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Evan replied on Tue, Feb 7 2012 9:47 PM

I, of course, voted for the 4500. Out of all the options, it is the only one I've heard. It does sound great, but it is also highly versatile. Great machine if you are into BeoLabs and multi-amp setups.

Paint it white and you've got the best looking BeoThing ever.

Beo4 'til I die!

Evan
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Evan replied on Tue, Feb 7 2012 10:02 PM

Rich,

Your mention of tilt reminds me of something I want to use in my finalized BM3000-2 / S45-2 setup.

I want to tilt the speakers but cannot use stands as they will be sitting on a shelf. So to get the tilt I want, I found the Auralex MoPads. They give a tilt of 4 or 8 deg (I think). Problem is, I wanted to get as close to the fatory spec of 15 deg (as would be provided by the floor stands).

There are also the SpeakerDudes, made by the same company. Only 4 degrees of tilt with those.

For 15 deg, there are the Audioengine DS2 stand/pad things.

Beo4 'til I die!

Søren Mexico
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Evan:
Paint it white and you've got the best looking BeoThing ever.

I think you will be introducing BeoWhite in the White House,

Here is my white house, sorry for the doors and the hedge, will try to get something whiteBig Smile

 


Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Steffen
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Steffen replied on Tue, Feb 7 2012 11:28 PM

Evan:

I, of course, voted for the 4500. Out of all the options, it is the only one I've heard. It does sound great, but it is also highly versatile. Great machine if you are into BeoLabs and multi-amp setups.

Paint it white and you've got the best looking BeoThing ever.

 

You're right about the 4500 system. It's a beauty -and very versatile. But I do not agree about the 'white' thing Hmm

You've done a nice painting job -but I prefer the original polished aluminum. Painting must be the 'last resort' -only if it's badly damaged.

Evan
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Evan replied on Wed, Feb 8 2012 1:49 AM

Søren Mexico:

Evan:
Paint it white and you've got the best looking BeoThing ever.

I think you will be introducing BeoWhite in the White House,

Here is my white house, sorry for the doors and the hedge, will try to get something whiteBig Smile

That looks like a nice crib Søren! Getting BeoWhite into your home - the sooner the better! Highly recommend it Smile

Beo4 'til I die!

Evan
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Evan replied on Wed, Feb 8 2012 1:53 AM

Steffen:

Evan:

I, of course, voted for the 4500. Out of all the options, it is the only one I've heard. It does sound great, but it is also highly versatile. Great machine if you are into BeoLabs and multi-amp setups.

Paint it white and you've got the best looking BeoThing ever.

You're right about the 4500 system. It's a beauty -and very versatile. But I do not agree about the 'white' thing Hmm

You've done a nice painting job -but I prefer the original polished aluminum. Painting must be the 'last resort' -only if it's badly damaged.

Thank you, Steffan. 

Why go through all the work of beating up a mirrored panel when it is just going to get painted anyway? Seems like a lot of senseless effort. Stick out tongueBig Smile

Beo4 'til I die!

Rich
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Rich replied on Wed, Feb 8 2012 1:39 PM

Evan:

Rich,

Your mention of tilt reminds me of something I want to use in my finalized BM3000-2 / S45-2 setup.

I want to tilt the speakers but cannot use stands as they will be sitting on a shelf. So to get the tilt I want, I found the Auralex MoPads. They give a tilt of 4 or 8 deg (I think). Problem is, I wanted to get as close to the fatory spec of 15 deg (as would be provided by the floor stands).

There are also the SpeakerDudes, made by the same company. Only 4 degrees of tilt with those.

For 15 deg, there are the Audioengine DS2 stand/pad things.

You can get the perfect tilt for $3.65.

These 1" diameter pads come in a pack of sixteen.  Each is between an 1/8" and a 1/4" thick (tall) and has an adhesive back.  On the bottom of your speakers, put one a little in from each corner.  Then in the front two corners, stack two more.  In the end the two back corners have a single pad, and the front two corners have a stack of three pads.

Very low tech, of course, but the S45-2s on my desk and the S40s on dressers in the spare bedroom are both sitting on these.


chartz
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chartz replied on Thu, Feb 9 2012 6:51 AM

Nice to see where you live Søren, although the pictures of the slums in MC are rather depressing to look at...

Jacques

Rich
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Rich replied on Mon, Feb 13 2012 6:18 PM

Disappearing Edit option under More....

EDIT

And now the Edit option is back!


bayerische
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Beosystem 7000 for me. 

 

That was a classic I would like to see back, updated. With a great Hard-drive player connected to an iPad for control. 

Too long to list.... 

beocool
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beocool replied on Tue, Feb 14 2012 4:16 PM

bayerische:

Beosystem 7000 for me. 

 

That was a classic I would like to see back, updated. With a great Hard-drive player connected to an iPad for control. 

+1

 

Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen! 

Rich
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Rich replied on Tue, Feb 14 2012 4:31 PM

beocool:

bayerische:

Beosystem 7000 for me. 

 

That was a classic I would like to see back, updated. With a great Hard-drive player connected to an iPad for control. 

+1

I'll tell you what I want to see back:  B&O making new MMC1 and MMC20CL phonograph cartridges, in the $100 price range!

EDIT

Edit function still available.


bayerische
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Rich:

beocool:

bayerische:

Beosystem 7000 for me. 

 

That was a classic I would like to see back, updated. With a great Hard-drive player connected to an iPad for control. 

+1

I'll tell you what I want to see back:  B&O making new MMC1 and MMC20CL phonograph cartridges, in the $100 price range!

EDIT

Edit function still available.

I could see a use for those! 

Too long to list.... 

chartz
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chartz replied on Tue, Feb 14 2012 5:23 PM

Rich:

I'll tell you what I want to see back:  B&O making new MMC1 and MMC20CL phonograph cartridges, in the $100 price range!

Yeah, right. But I agree nonetheless! Oh yes!

Jacques

Rich
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Rich replied on Tue, Feb 14 2012 5:31 PM

Just noticed this thread is now 30+ posts, all on one page! 

Talk about +1!


Step1
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Step1 replied on Tue, Feb 14 2012 6:35 PM

I had to put a vote in for the 6000 quad system, because when fully working it is such a thing of Beauty!!! Sound might not be as nice as other systems but I find that I can quickly adapt and enjoy it all the same... And seriously, back in the day, would you have wanted for any other system in your front room?

However, I like each system for its own merits, and when my collection is complete one day I will enjoy rotating systems and using them all :)

Olly

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valve1 replied on Wed, Feb 15 2012 7:40 AM

Step1:
would you have wanted for any other system in your front room?

Have you been looking in my front window ? :-)

Step1:
However, I like each system for its own merits, and when my collection is complete one day I will enjoy rotating systems and using them al

+1

Step1:
and when my collection is complete

Is this terminal.... :-)

Step1
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Step1 replied on Wed, Feb 15 2012 11:16 AM

valve1:

Step1:
would you have wanted for any other system in your front room?

Have you been looking in my front window ? :-)

No but tell me where you live and I can do that Stick out tongue

Olly

valve1
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valve1 replied on Thu, Feb 16 2012 7:13 AM

Step1:
No but tell me where you live and I can do that Stick out tongue

Is that beo stalking?

(or just 1step beyond......) :-0

 

Step1
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Step1 replied on Fri, Feb 17 2012 12:48 PM

double post

Olly

Step1
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Step1 replied on Fri, Feb 17 2012 12:48 PM

well if it is, and you want an injunction you might have to get the Beosystem to file the complaint Stick out tongue Until then, I would be there, with my ultrasonic remote control jammer, causing all sorts of misery and heartache until you were forced to sell the system for spares or

valve1:

Step1:
No but tell me where you live and I can do that Stick out tongue

Is that beo stalking?

(or just 1step beyond......) :-0

 

repair Smile

 

Olly

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Having taken the best part of ten days to work out how to even update my profile, I'm really pleased now to be able to post,  (I represent the 'IT illiterate' faction)

Most desirable vintage system?  Difficult as I own two and half of the options.  (A Beosytem 6500 rather than a 7000).  

 I appreciate the 6500 from an aesthetic and practical point of view (it has a very small footprint when fully stacked) and offers the ability to drive active or passive speakers. Even the lady of the house likes it (a very rare event).  The CD player has a 'digital out' as well which one day may allow hooking it up to a pair of BL5s (in my dreams).

The BM4400/BG 400x is a glorious sounding combination for records, but I have never been able to get either of the two BC5000s I have owned to work.  The 5000 was arguably the most elegant cassette deck ever,   And whilst my CDX works beautifully with the BM4400, it is clearly from a different period in B&O design.

The 8000/8002/9000 system is, until recently, the system I listened to most.  The CDX is visually a much better match for the 8000 system with lots of design similarities and shared visual cues such as the platter of the 8002 and the CD tray from the CDX, for example.   However, it takes up most of an 8 foot long storage unit and the BM weighs a ton (well, 22kgs).  But it will drive just about any load, and occasionally think about a pair of Braun LE1 electrostatics as an alternative to my MC120.2s  

So the most desirable?  Can't choose, as it is a constantly changing opinion, which is why I have all three.  Which would I rescue from a fire?  The 8000  - but only if I were feeling strong.  

Cleve

Rich
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Rich replied on Fri, Feb 17 2012 2:12 PM

Excellent post, Cleve.  I continue to fall deeper and deeper in love with my BM4000/BG4002/M70 system.  Last night I was listening to the Police's Synchronicity while reading a magazine.  When "King of Pain" came on, the system really caught my attention.  I actually put the magazine down and went over and restarted the song so that I could listen with undivided attention.

My wife saw what I did and asked why I restarted the song (after it was over).  I asked her if she knew the piano part at the beginning of the song, the rhythmic "da-da, da-da...."  She said sure.  I said this was the first time listening to the song that I could really tell/sense/hear that this was a real piano of real size in a real room being banged by a human.  (As opposed to a synthesizer programmed to sound like a piano.)

She said, "You're such a dork," and went back to cooking dinner.


chartz
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chartz replied on Fri, Feb 17 2012 2:28 PM

Yes, Clive has summed up perfectly what most of us Beoinfected collectors feel.

Each system is superb in its own right, and I too listen to them for different (but always musical) reasons. 

One day I enjoy my Beosystem 8000, the next I get tired of it and find myself preferring the soothing 5500. Then I will enjoy the brighter 4400 for a few days because I'm in a jazz-listening mood, etc. 

The desert island system? The jury will remain out I'm afraid...

The piano at the beginning of King of Pain has always sounded like a real piano to me, but I see exactly what you mean! Stick out tongue 

Jacques

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