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Infusing beogram's bearings…

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matador43
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matador43 posted on Mon, Jul 20 2020 4:47 PM

Hi Guys,

I have two beograms sleeping around: a 1203, little bit slow and a 1202 which as some other issues.
A also have a well playing 3000 which makes me comfortable trying to fit the two other ones.

First thing I'd like to try is to re-oil the bearings. I'll came later with the question about the oil since some references often mentioned here on beoworld are not always applicable here in France.

But before that I'de like to know if there is any other method to infuse the bearings different that using the big vacuum food saver machine used by Beolover. I know good work need right tools but that one I will never use it again ever, and as far as I've seen, those are not heavily used around so I dont want to risk to buy one and never sell it. One guy on the forum did a step by step topic about it but it did hide that part for his wife not to see what he does with food hardware :-).

So any trick, or cheap device or vacuum cleaner plus duck tape trick ?

Thank you.

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Craig
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Craig replied on Tue, Jul 21 2020 6:29 AM

Hi

you can buy a wine bottle vacuum pump from eBay very cheaply to do the job, I bought one myself but didn’t need to use it in the end

Craig

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Tue, Jul 21 2020 6:54 AM

I think a vacuum cleaner is a bad idea, because you will need to have it running for up to 24 hours.

I use the external jar from a food saver and I bought a small vacuum pump off Ebay and constructed a timer to automatically power the pump for some seconds every other minute to maintain a steady vacuum. This means that I can do other things while waiting for the bearings.

You need to let the process run until no more bubbles escape. Don't stop and break the process, or oil will suck in and block the remaining trapped air from escaping when you start again (unless you have a very strong vacuum). Start and let run until done.

Rolling the bearings around a bit or shaking them a little to bring a different side up while still under oil and vacuum, can often bring more air out.

Martin

matador43
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Thank you Craig and Dillen,

Dillen than you for the details on the process. I'm not there so far.
Not sure I have your skill at building timers, nor the science to understand the good pattern to program.

What do you think about Craig's solution? With something like below it would be easy to build a little sealed jar with just the stopper through the cap where you can pump the air? Even if i need to pump every now and then? Would the pressure be enough? Is it silly?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reusable-Bottle-Vacuum-Wine-Sealer-Preserver-Saver-Pump-2-Stoppers-Black/312948543189?epid=7026693330&hash=item48dd2fced5:g:rVAAAOSwY8teIAb7

Just to mention: there's a lot of vacuum pumps in any size and any shape and for any use on eBay!
If the wine's one dont work, maybe the hum-hum one's? Big Smile

Thank you for your advice.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Tue, Jul 21 2020 11:56 AM

I never tried the wine thing so I cannot say how much vacuum it makes.
The harder vacuum you use, the shorter time is needed.

Mine looks something like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Mini-Vacuum-Pump-High-Pressure-Suction-Diaphragm-Pump-Holder-5L-min-Tool/402274847985

Martin

matador43
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Thank you Dillen for the link.

I assume the input (intake) of the pump goes to the jar and the output goes nowhere?
How work your timer? Is it something that can be replicate with a timed plug (15 min/15min) or does it need to be more accurate?

When you say the process must not be stopped, is it stopped like "opening the jar" or does it include stopped like "breaks in the continuous pumping" 

Then last question : in the case of the wine pump, even if it slower could it work even if in longer time.

From what I've read, you know your done when the bearing stop making bubbles so in both case i must know when the process is ended, be it 1 day or 1 week?

Sorry for the truckload of questions.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Tue, Jul 21 2020 4:07 PM

Intake to the jar and exhaust out in open air, yes.

The vacuum must not be released until finished. If you open the jar, oil will be sucked in to the bearings pores by the vacuum left by the air and
it will be difficult to get any remaining air out.
If it happens, leave the bearings in acetone overnight to dissolve the oil and allow them to airdry for an hour or two before starting over with the vacuum.

I always give the bearings an acetone bath and airdrying before reoiling. The amount of junk and dirt coming out is surprising.

When bubbling stops, open the jar and let the bearings stay submerged in the oil for a couple of hours before lifting them out.
This is when fresh oil is sucked back into the pores, and it's not a fast process.

I just built a timer with a couple of transistors, a relay etc. I had in the drawer.
I have found that with the Food saver jar (which isn't 100% tight - at least not under this amount of vacuum), a running duration of 20 seconds every 3 minutes or so is fine.
Left for 12-15 minutes without pumping, the bubbling stops, and we don't want that.

It does take a certain amount of vacuum to get the air out.
I cannot tell you if the wine thing provides enough as I haven't tried it and the FS won't allow it.

To give you an idea what it should look like, these are Beogram 3000 Thorens bearings being reoiled.
The principle is the same regardless of the model:

Martin

matador43
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Again, very comprehensive answer, thank you.

Will look around for help building the timer with you specs. I want to be sure to have everything ready before stripping out the motor.

Knowing that if the process fail you can start from scratch by cleaning the bearings is also a relief.

Need to do my homework now.

Thanks again.

matador43
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Hi Dillen,

I hope this would not be a rude question, but would you mind sharing your timer schematics, for me to build one?
I can solder some components, but dont know how to design the circuit or calculate the values, despite my old electronics studies.

Also, If I use the same pump and the same timing, would the jar size be important? Or it is as simple as it starts when it bubbles and stop when it dont bubble anymore?

Thank you.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Wed, Jul 22 2020 12:13 PM

The timing depends on the tightness of the jar, the pump and the connections rather than jar size, but of course a bathtub-size jar would require a longer
initial run to create adequate vacuum.

Sorry, I have no schematics. I just put it together "on the fly", but basically just a bistabile mutivibrator using two transistors with each their
variable RC-circuits, one of the transistors a darlington to drive a small relay directly. Protection diode across the relay coil and a little filtering on the
power supply to take care of the varying load, else timing was difficult to set with this simple circuit and unregulated supply.
Finally a bypass switch across the relay contacts to activate the pump manually, I hold this for a minute or so while holding on the jar lid to make adequate vacuum fast as I found the jar was difficult to get tight with very little vacuum.

One (or two) NE555 IC(s) could also do it.

Martin

matador43
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Ok, thanks anyway.

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