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Crossover frequency

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BandAl
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BandAl posted on Tue, Mar 31 2020 7:11 PM

Hi guys. So, I have a question re crossover frequency. I have a Beovision 14, 4 x beolab 18’s, and a beolab 2 sub. I am trying to figure out the ideal crossover frequency- there is sooooo much on The internet it’s difficult to fathom what’s right. Any ideas?? Also, should I be altering anything else in the 14’s extensive sound settings?? Cheers chaps..

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Geoff Martin
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Hi,

The BeoVision 14 should choose a default crossover frequency of 120 Hz. However, this is the default because it will result in the greatest bass capability - meaning that it will give you the loudest possible bass if you turn up the volume.

If you don't plan on turning up the volume too high (there is no answer to the question "how high is too high" - since it depends on the level of the signal coming into the system before the volume control) then you MAY benefit from reducing the crossover frequency. This will send more signal to the TV and 18's and less to the sub - which will possibly give your loudspeakers better "control" over the room's modes.

However, the more you drop the frequency, the more you'll result in a dip in the frequency response of the entire system around that frequency when things get loud (because the ABL in the 18s and the BV14 will pull back the bass - which would not have happened if the bass had been sent to the BL2).

Have you read the Technical Sound Guide for the television? This may help you to tweak your system - assuming that you want to go "off-piste" from the defaults.

Cheers
-geoff

BandAl
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Thanks Geoff.  Well, I noticed that the default crossover was 120 Hz but at this level I also noticed that the 18’s lacked depth and sounded a little treble heavy. I have now reduced the crossover to 93 Hz and found this much better all round, especially the 18’s sounding fuller. We don’t crank them right up so it’s just much better. I have read the in-depth sound guide, but if I’m honest, as I’m not technically minded, some of it sounded way above my head!! Just one follow on question if I may. Is there a straight cut off from my 18’s to my sub at the crossover number or does the system ‘blend’ around this so sound is sent to each speaker? Cheers for your time..

Geoff Martin
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Hi again,

The bass management in the BV14 uses a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley crossover. This means that the levels of both outputs (the high-pass filtered signal and the low-pass filtered signal(s)) are 6 dB down at the crossover frequency (this corresponds to 1/2 the amplitude or 1/4 of the power - which is the same thing).

From there, the level drops by 24 dB per octave. So, the level of the signals sent to the "main" loudspeakers will be approximately -30 dB at 1/2 the crossover frequency and the level sent to the subwoofer will be approximately -30 dB at twice the crossover frequency.

I say approximately because the slope of the filters is not yet a straight line at the crossover frequency - it's still approaching 24 dB per octave at that point.

Cheers
-g 

Mikipidia
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Geoff dropping some knowledge on us Big Smile

Does this work for 50’s and 90’s too in a similar fashion? (Happen to paired with a Harmony, don’t know if that changes anything?)

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

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https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

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Dyssegaard
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Geoff Martin:

Have you read the Technical Sound Guide for the television? This may help you to tweak your system - assuming that you want to go "off-piste" from the defaults.

Cheers -geoff

Hi Geoff

Last week I have received an updated version of the Technical Sound Guide from B&O customer support (dated March 5th 2020).

I was interested in the sound modes for my BV

Eclipse. The guide states that an “automatic” sound mode should be available (uses metadata in dvb signal to select the right sound mode).

I’m not able to select it on my new BV Eclipse. Is the guide wrong or will it be available in a future update?

PS: Sorry for being off-topic in this thread.

Best regards - Dyssegaard

Living room: Beovision Eclipse 55, Beolab 3 / R1 (back), Beolab 2 / R1 (sub), AppleTV 4K, Bedroom: Beovision 11-40, AppleTV 4. Home office: Beolit 12, Kitchen: Beoplay M5. Travel: Beoplay H8, Beoplay A1. NAS: WD My Cloud Home / Plex DLNA Server.

Fansastic
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Dyssegaard:

Hi Geoff

Last week I have received an updated version of the Technical Sound Guide from B&O customer support (dated March 5th 2020).

I was interested in the sound modes for my BV

Eclipse. The guide states that an “automatic” sound mode should be available (uses metadata in dvb signal to select the right sound mode).

I’m not able to select it on my new BV Eclipse. Is the guide wrong or will it be available in a future update?

PS: Sorry for being off-topic in this thread. Best regards - Dyssegaard

Living room: Beovision Eclipse 55, Beolab 3 / R1 (back), Beolab 2 / R1 (sub), AppleTV 4K, Bedroom: Beovision 11-40 , AppleTV 4 . Home office: Beolit 12, Kitchen: Beoplay M5 . Travel: Beoplay H8, Beoplay A1. NAS: WD My Cloud Home / Plex DLNA Server.

Hi, is the updated sound guide downloadable from the website? I found version 1.6 but not dated, is this the latest version?

Thanks

Serge

BV Eclipse 55 Brass - BL 18 Brass - BL 19 Brass - BL 3 White - BS Moment - BS 2 Brass - BV Horizon 48 - BS3000 - BS 3200 - BS Essence - BL 4000 - V1 40 Black - V1 40 White - BLC NL/ML - H6 -  H4 - E8 Motion - A8 Earphone - Beolit 12 - Beolit 15 - Beoplay A1 Green - Beoplay A3 White

Millemissen
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Hi Dyssegaard

Please be aware, that the tv-tuner/DVB - in opposition to the previous BV’s like the BV11 etc - now is a part of the LG-tv.

This might be one of the reasons that B&O can’t offer exact the same options as with the former BV’s.

The simply have no control over how these metadata is handled there.

As for the updated TSG you received - are you allowed to make it public (here or through PM)?

I’d like to read it - and probably others too.

P.S. If it is an ‘automatic’ function, you probably don’t even need to select it manually.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Dyssegaard
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@MM and Serge:

I have just checked the website, and the updated TSG is not there yet.

Due to a non-disclosure text in the e-mail I’ve received from B&O support, I’m not alloved to distribute the TSG - sorry for that.

Best regards - Dyssegaard

Living room: Beovision Eclipse 55, Beolab 3 / R1 (back), Beolab 2 / R1 (sub), AppleTV 4K, Bedroom: Beovision 11-40, AppleTV 4. Home office: Beolit 12, Kitchen: Beoplay M5. Travel: Beoplay H8, Beoplay A1. NAS: WD My Cloud Home / Plex DLNA Server.

Geoff Martin
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Mikipidia:
Geoff dropping some knowledge on us Big Smile

Does this work for 50’s and 90’s too in a similar fashion? (Happen to paired with a Harmony, don’t know if that changes anything?)

Hi,

 

The Bass Management FREQUENCY in the televisions is the same regardless of the external loudspeakers that are connected.

The TV will then make a set of decisions regarding whether the bass should be taken from a loudspeaker (Bass Redirection Enabled) or not.

The loudspeakers that the low-end is directed to is determined by the Bass Re-direction Levels.

If you wish to direct the bass to the external loudspeakers and the internal ones, then you can adjust the Re-direction levels accordingly. If you set them all to 0 dB, you'll get "full bass" in all speakers - which will probably be too much... unless you really like bass or hate your neighbours.

Cheers

-geoff

Geoff Martin
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Dyssegaard:

Eclipse. The guide states that an “automatic” sound mode should be available (uses metadata in dvb signal to select the right sound mode).

I’m not able to select it on my new BV Eclipse. Is the guide wrong or will it be available in a future update?

 

The guide is wrong - this is my fault (I wrote the guide...) The Eclipse and Harmony menu trees should not have the "Automatic" option displayed in the guide. I'll fix this immediately. My apologies for the confusion... 

MM's posting is correct. The tuner in the television does not route the DVB metadata down to the B&O audio processor. Consequently, the audio cannot know which Sound Mode to choose based on the incoming signal. So, at least as a factory default, the Sound Mode for a Live TV signal is Drama. you can change this by choosing a different default Sound Mode for the Live TV - or altering the parameters in the Drama mode to suit your tastes.

Cheers
-geoff

 

Dyssegaard
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Geoff Martin:

The guide is wrong - this is my fault (I wrote the guide...) The Eclipse and Harmony menu trees should not have the "Automatic" option displayed in the guide. I'll fix this immediately. My apologies for the confusion...

MM's posting is correct. The tuner in the television does not route the DVB metadata down to the B&O audio processor. Consequently, the audio cannot know which Sound Mode to choose based on the incoming signal. So, at least as a factory default, the Sound Mode for a Live TV signal is Drama. you can change this by choosing a different default Sound Mode for the Live TV - or altering the parameters in the Drama mode to suit your tastes.

Cheers -geoff

Geoff - thanks for the clarification Smile

Best regards - Dyssegaard

Living room: Beovision Eclipse 55, Beolab 3 / R1 (back), Beolab 2 / R1 (sub), AppleTV 4K, Bedroom: Beovision 11-40, AppleTV 4. Home office: Beolit 12, Kitchen: Beoplay M5. Travel: Beoplay H8, Beoplay A1. NAS: WD My Cloud Home / Plex DLNA Server.

Geoff Martin
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No problem! I've now updated the guide and the new version will be made available soon.

Cheers

-geoff

Mikipidia
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Thank you Geoff! Big Smile

Ps my neighbours are basically deaf already Stick out tongue

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube (finally Stick out tongue )

https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Dyssegaard
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Geoff Martin:

No problem! I've now updated the guide and the new version will be made available soon.

Cheers

-geoff

Hi Geoff,

I have just checked the support site for Beovision Eclipse, and the link to the Technical Sound Guide just loops back to the user manual download page:

In the version of the Technical Sound Guide from March 5, 2020, which I have mentioned earlier on in this thread, I have noticed that the following 2 menu items are listed under Speaker Groups Setup:

- Assisted Speaker Calibration

- LFE input to Ceiling

None of these are available on my Eclipse.

Will Assisted Speaker Calibration be available in a later sw update?

Best regards - Dyssegaard

Living room: Beovision Eclipse 55, Beolab 3 / R1 (back), Beolab 2 / R1 (sub), AppleTV 4K, Bedroom: Beovision 11-40, AppleTV 4. Home office: Beolit 12, Kitchen: Beoplay M5. Travel: Beoplay H8, Beoplay A1. NAS: WD My Cloud Home / Plex DLNA Server.

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