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OLED, LG vs/& B&O

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Michael
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Michael Posted: Sun, Nov 25 2018 6:17 PM
Loving my Avant 55” but curious about oled. Eclipse is pretty much an expensive sound bar with some custom software and integration possibilities. The price difference is close to 6-7000 usd compared to an identical screen from LG without the B&O part.

I wonder if it is worth it. Is the eclipse even updated with 2018 panels? The ones using alpha 9 or is it still a 2016/2017 model?

Anyone know if there is any future for it or if B&O will go out of it all? Can I buy just the sound center and a LG monitor?

Or should I opt for a Lg oled and settle without moving stand and beautiful remote? So confused as a customer now when the only choice seems to be the eclipse.

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leosgonewild
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You can buy a 65” LG oled from 2018 for 2300€

Or go for a 75” even.

And invest in a proper surround system instead.

You can mount the LG in an old B&O stand.

"You think we can slap some oak on this thing?"

Michael
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Michael replied on Sun, Nov 25 2018 6:42 PM
leosgonewild:

You can buy a 65” LG oled from 2018 for 2300€

Or go for a 75” even.

And invest in a proper surround system instead.

You can mount the LG in an old B&O stand.

The problem is sound profile and the integration of stand profiles and sound profiles. WISA and powerlink. I like the B&O way but the price difference is so big for not really so so much right?

Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, 
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Millemissen
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@Michael

Calm down - and keep your Avant 55.

MM

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Michael
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Michael replied on Sun, Nov 25 2018 6:58 PM
Millemissen:

@Michael

Calm down - and keep your Avant 55.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Do you mean that there is news coming? I changed my phone to the XS Max recently and I want to jump on the OLED train sometime. I do like the Avant a lot but the benefits of OLED is also nice and I don’t like hanging on to the same device for too long. I like change :)

Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, 
BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, 
BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, 
BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, 
BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)  

Millemissen
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Michael:

Do you mean that there is news coming? I changed my phone to the XS Max recently and I want to jump on the OLED train sometime. I do like the Avant a lot but the benefits of OLED is also nice and I don’t like hanging on to the same device for too long. I like change :)

I do not know anything about ‘news’!

If the OLED technology in a pure LG tv is more important to you than the benefits - that you yourself descrided - of an Avant 55, you will need no further advice.

Just do it!

MM

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Michael
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Michael replied on Sun, Nov 25 2018 9:28 PM
Millemissen:

I do not know anything about ‘news’!

If the OLED technology in a pure LG tv is more important to you than the benefits - that you yourself descrided - of an Avant 55, you will need no further advice.

Just do it!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Just do what? I’m considering which way to go forward. If eclipse is even updated with a current gen panel or not and if I should move away from the ecosystem of B&O or not. Many tough questions. And if B&O isn’t going to do Tv more what then? I don’t like just waiting.

Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, 
BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, 
BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, 
BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, 
BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)  

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Solidsnake replied on Sun, Nov 25 2018 10:10 PM

I have had the original Avant 55, loved the design but had issues with dirt behind the screen. I also wasn’t happy with the edge lit display. I moved to the Avant NG and it was a more capable 4K TV air was crippled by buggy software. So I recently moved to the Eclipse and I have found it so much better than the Avant. It is far more responsive, sound much better and the display is far better.  Obviously there is the issue of is it worth it. But just basing it on the tv, the Eclipse is far better and I’m far happier with it. 

Millemissen
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Michael:

Just do what?

Just get the stock LG ;-))

To me it seemed that you don’t think, that the integration with the B&O parts and the Sound Center as a unit is worth the money, when considering the Eclipse.

Also the fact, that they did not put a 2018 screen into it, was a concern of yours.

Therefore that could not be my advice!

Waiting for something ‘new’ iseems also not to be an option....or ———- whatever ‘new’ would mean.

(That however, is my personal option - untill then I’ll enjoy my Avant 55 and the setup that I have around it).

Looking forward to read about how you decide to get on.

MM

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Aussie Michael
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I prefer the Sony myself and the latest reference one has the ability to use the "acoustic surface" as a centre channel in a multi channel setup.  Ingenious. 

I wonder if you can plug in the stock LG if it gives you the B&O bits , or do they install certain B&O software in the LG.  You can see certain android packages installed on the BV14 for example.  

Mr 10Percent
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Beovisions have always been more expensive than the price of the parts.

The screen an rendering of the picture

Sound processing including surround plus...plus

The Stand

The integration with a B&O. AV System

PUC management and 3rdParty integration.

Beoremote menu uplink.

 

Always thought that that premium was worth it but started to gulp with the Eclipse. Main issue for me was/is the Cr@ppy home screen (smart screen). It is shocking and screens LG. B&O MUST get back to their elegant, simple black and white intuitive menu screen. The other issue I have is that pure 3party products that don’t integrate with a PUC or direct control are a real PITA. 

Like the TV, hate the price, would hate to go to a non-B&O TV with a system like mine. 

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smuehli replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 8:20 AM

I'll gonna throw a new had in the ring: ;-)

 

At friday I fell in love with the new Samsung 8k QLed!

The picture Quality is far far away from any other TV I've seen! Even Loewe is peace of a cake (I hope this is the right english subscription) compared to this! Even SD (normal TV or DVD) looks great! And if you start watching several 8k streams from youtube - you won't be able to close your mouth!

You have to look for the Q900 Series - it's new since two or three weeks now in Germany.

I thought that 75" would be far to big -  I came from the 46" Loewe - but it is Ok - far more: How could we've lived with these small tiny TVs? ;-)

For the connectivity I use a Bluetooth receiver for my BS9000 and connected this to the TV (build in Bluetooth).

Or use the Almando System with the ARC from the TV.

 

 

Emil Jensen
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I have had the LG OLED 910, and the C7,

I switch to the Eclipse and have never looked back.

Best tv by far I have ever had, a no brainer in my opinion.

LG and others are cheaper, yes but that is the only thing they have going for them.

Lots have been said, I will just add Net radio, which I use also on the Eclipse.

And Again the Beoremote is much better the LG magic remote.

My parents have the AVANT, which is really good, the Eclipse is better tough.

And it is a 2017 panel, and processor. Not much have happen here in 2018. You could choose to wait to see what happens in 2019. 

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leosgonewild
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Emil Jensen:

I have had the LG OLED 910, and the C7,

I switch to the Eclipse and have never looked back.

Best tv by far I have ever had, a no brainer in my opinion.

LG and others are cheaper, yes but that is the only thing they have going for them.

If you only look at picture quality, is the Eclipse better than the C7?

"You think we can slap some oak on this thing?"

Emil Jensen
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If you look at the picture quality the Eclipse is the C7,

Also the LG B7-E7-G7 and W7,

They are the same high-end and low-end.

And I would bet that no one on this forum can see a difference to the 2018 models. Same panel different software and processor.

In any case the difference between LG/Panasonic/SONY/Philips all with OLED is so small, the avarage user cannot see a difference. Loewe sadly have some bad adjustments on theirs.

In my personel opinion, I would never recommend Samsung, as LCD screens are bad compared to OLED. And I do not care that they call is QLED or it have 8K, it is still LCD.

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smuehli
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smuehli replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 11:03 AM

But keep in mind the x7 Series ist outdated - actual is x8 (B8,C8,W8) Series - I think from 2018 ;-)

Yeah, the Samsung ist LED not OLED -  nothing can burn in, no special mechanism is needed to prevent burn in - sorry, but I think OLED is absolutely overrated!

I don't like the OLED picture that much - For me the contrast is too much, the picture is unreal!

My wife want's the LG W8 (the Wallpaper), I thougt the Loewe Bild 7 would be better and now we have the Samsung ;-)

I'd say: Give it a try and decide then . . . 

Michael
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Michael replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 11:48 AM
Thanks for all your input. I also watched a QLED this weekend and it’s big, I liked that I could have a projector size image without a projector. (Can’t get that with the eclipse for example). But QLED is not OLED.

Another thing negative to an OLED TV is that burn in seems easier to accidentally get. There’s been a lot of issues with this and Swedish tv that has a sun during the morning program that burns in on people’s oleds:).

I agree with everyone saying the B&O integration is worth money but it’s not worth that much money, and it’s locked to one set. That what throws me with the eclipse. The screen is a standard LG with some slight modifications to fit the eclipse sound bar.

For me this means that the Stand and sound center should be able to work with future setups but that is not how it works. And this cripples the future for the set. At least in my eyes.

Remember the BV7 series for example where people would only exchange the screen, and use different speakers or stands.

I like my Avant a lot but I don’t want it to fall too much in price before I sell. It’s still superb and I like to sell it as long as it is. And go to the newer stuff. As a tech guy I’m prone to early adopter syndrome and need it for my experiences and interest.

Cost is always a part of the calculation, I’m not a sheik and I scan afford buying several if I want but I feel that I need to control my costs and not just waste money badly.

What I think I really want is a sound center with B&O stand that can support future TVs and TVs that I can buy separately from the B&O part since it truly is two different things. With some added software packages as AussieMichael said.

I wanted to upgrade this winter but apparently B&O still keeps the 2017 panel with the Eclipse? Madness.. no?

On the 2018 setup I gather that the C series and higher have “AI” and alpha 9 cp my with much better video algorithms than the previous year and the current year B-series that ran over from last years hardware architecture.

So, I could get an eclipse and be happy but have already outdated tech or wait and see what happens in 2019. There is still an HDR standard that Lg does not support and that might be supported on the next gen sets, so maybe I should wait. But my Avant keeps dropping in price.. can’t wait too long.

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BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, 
BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, 
BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)  

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The plan as I understood was to use new 2018 panels, but it cost a lot to get a special version from LG,

Plastic is different, Box is different, software and an ekstra tuner and no speaker is different.

So when the difference from 2017- 2018 was almost none, they saved that cost. I would say that it was a good choice.

Actually I bought the Eclipse well knowing what the 2018 had to offer.

Anyways if I were you I would wait 1,5 month and see what 2019 have to offer.

Would save much regret. 

 

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Michael
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Michael replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 4:53 PM
Emil Jensen:

The plan as I understood was to use new 2018 panels, but it cost a lot to get a special version from LG,

Plastic is different, Box is different, software and an ekstra tuner and no speaker is different.

So when the difference from 2017- 2018 was almost none, they saved that cost. I would say that it was a good choice.

Actually I bought the Eclipse well knowing what the 2018 had to offer.

Anyways if I were you I would wait 1,5 month and see what 2019 have to offer.

Would save much regret.

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Strange that it would do that. I guess this is a partnership between the companies and it should be more expensive to continue producing a special machine for a smaller client base. The new one only has a different backing. Not sure if it includes speakers or not. Should be better if it did because it would be possible to reuse the monitor and upgrade the sound center later on. But maybe environmental thoughts hasn’t gotten to Denmark yet :).

I think there’s a good reason to go for the updated screen but waiting even more seems key this time. Too bad B&O can’t keep up even with other people building the tv part.

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BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, 
BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, 
BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, 
BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)  

Emil Jensen
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Michael I do not think you know have much different Eclipse is from C7 in Hardware.

It is a completely different model.

So the C8 do not have a different backing, at least not more different from C7 to the Eclipse,

If you still thinking the soundcenter and the panel as two pieces that can work from each other, then you are on the wrong path.

The eclipse is as a complete tv as the Avant.

One thing is cost, but there have only been very minor improvement from 2017 - 2018, it is still the same panel.

I cannot see what you think you are missing?

Also I believe that B&O pays more for the TV part, then we have to give for a C8 on the market.

You can compare cost as much as you want, but there is nothing on the market as complete as the Eclipse, so there is really no brand to compare price with. 

You compare product in very different price classes, and that you can, but it is silly to do in many cases.

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Michael
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Michael replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 5:39 PM
I don’t agree that it is silly. Money is money and being a single household I keep a close hold on them and I do my purchases not in curiosity but knowledge. I don’t think B&O pay more for a panel than a customer buying a tv from a store does. Probably the other way around, less money, win win collaboration.

The plastic back is what I guess is the difference, and as I said. If it had the original speakers inside then it would be useful for other uses if the screen only could be updated later on, as I said earlier just like with a BeoVision 7 or BeoVision 4.

I obviously made you upset for reasons unknown but for me my own interests is what’s important to me. I don’t know how B&O and LG manufactures them but for a 100 000 sek TV surely I want the latest tech. The improvements in upscaling, speed etc is always something to want. At least for me. Sorry you took offense.

And, I do want to buy a BeoVision, I didn’t say I didn’t. Just that the cost for a practically identical screen gets much higher with the B&O part. I want to make sure it is worth it for me. Not just today but in four years and later on. We live on a planet where we already exceed our limitations and just buying and throwing away stuff every other year is not going to work forever.

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Emil Jensen
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Sorry Michael,

You did not make me upset, I am not so good on paper, I am better at discussion in real life.

I understand your view, as it is the same as mine.

That is also the reason why I have tried several brands, both in speaker, Receivers and TV the last 15 years.

Now I have gone for B&O and I have never been more satisfied. simple elegant and well working.

I also understand that you want the picture to be as good as possible. But it isn't. Sony as I read it takes the lead there.

But the difference now is not as before, most OLED tv's are great, and the last 1% you would not notice.

But the other great things with B&O you will notice, as you already have the AVANT.

My point is I drive a VW, I would like a Mercedes, but don't have it because of price. But I am well aware of what I am missing. And if you buy a LG C8, when you have been used to a AVANT you will too.

Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay H6, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence 

Michael
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Michael replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 6:21 PM

Emil Jensen:

Sorry Michael,

You did not make me upset, I am not so good on paper, I am better at discussion in real life.

I understand your view, as it is the same as mine.

That is also the reason why I have tried several brands, both in speaker, Receivers and TV the last 15 years.

Now I have gone for B&O and I have never been more satisfied. simple elegant and well working.

I also understand that you want the picture to be as good as possible. But it isn't. Sony as I read it takes the lead there.

But the difference now is not as before, most OLED tv's are great, and the last 1% you would not notice.

But the other great things with B&O you will notice, as you already have the AVANT.

My point is I drive a VW, I would like a Mercedes, but don't have it because of price. But I am well aware of what I am missing. And if you buy a LG C8, when you have been used to a AVANT you will too.

:) yes, arguing/discussing online always is harder than in real life.

I do enjoy my avant and I bought it, also after using other high quality stuff from different vendors. I do sometime miss how clean my setup was before though (beolab 8000 + samsung led screen with super thin metall frame) it looked stunning but I had to use a receiver and different remotes or a harmony remote that never really worked well. I enjoy how integrated the avant is even though it took three units before I got one that was really good!

I don't have a need to buy a new set but I get bored sometimes and want something new and also not keep stuff too long. I already had the avant for four years. Time to move on soon probably.

I hear Sony makes great OLEDS but I think LG still has the advantage in the design, WebOS and stuff like that. But I also gather that some OLEDs are too high in contrast making everything look too colorful. I enjoy the subtle colors on my Avant and it is more genuine and cinematic looking. Popping colors is nice but not always what the director or photographer intended - so a lot of the contrast race is not "genuine". However, the black levels are, and the thin and modern design is.

Sigh, will wait a bit more and see what I do :). I also do custom installations with much higher cost devices at work, using crestron and other integration tools to send video to several projector systems, split and send to different places or modify room design and even shape. I would like to do that at home too but my home is a home and nothing else :D

 

Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, 
BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, 
BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, 
BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, 
BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)  

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Mon, Nov 26 2018 6:53 PM

Flatpanelshd say the picture quality of the C8 is an improvement over the C7.

Other than that,   wasn't it said here 6 months or so ago that there was to be no more new Tv's from B&O or have I just made that up?

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elephant replied on Tue, Nov 27 2018 9:21 AM
Emil Jensen:

Anyways if I were you I would wait 1,5 month and see what 2019 have to offer.

Yes ... we are only 2 months away from CES where LG and Samsung will make new announcements.

Like the x9 engine for LG and presumably another higher size.

The counter is that from CES 2018 it took about 6 months for the LG W8 to arrive in my local store.

Hopefully for Michael’s sake Europe will be earlier in 2019.

BeoNut since '75

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Prepairing for HDMI 2.1 and 8K - features we can’t live without.

Every year the same.....keep the business alive.

MM

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Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Nov 27 2018 9:46 AM

Millemissen:

Prepairing for HDMI 2.1 and 8K - features we can’t live without.

Every year the same.....keep the business alive.

MM

....or alternatively they could continue to improve the picture  quality and OS  - as good as oled may be it is not yet perfect and there is still room for improvement!

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Puncher:

Flatpanelshd say the picture quality of the C8 is an improvement over the C7.

Lot of effort to get the same-old same-old from Sky, BBC, Coronation St and other dross

 

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Puncher replied on Tue, Nov 27 2018 1:04 PM

Mr 10Percent:

Puncher:

Flatpanelshd say the picture quality of the C8 is an improvement over the C7.

Lot of effort to get the same-old same-old from Sky, BBC, Coronation St and other dross

 

Laughing - true enough!

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moxxey replied on Tue, Nov 27 2018 2:13 PM

Mr 10Percent:

Puncher:

Flatpanelshd say the picture quality of the C8 is an improvement over the C7.

Lot of effort to get the same-old same-old from Sky, BBC, Coronation St and other dross

Perplexes me that in 2018 were still *that* obsessed with picture quality. Smh. Seriously. It’s so marginal now. There were huge leaps in picture quality between the years from 2005 through 2015, but anything since is relatively marginal. For instance, the “old” BV7-55 MK2 still has a superb picture and so does the BV12-65.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Nov 27 2018 4:20 PM

moxxey:

Mr 10Percent:

Puncher:

Flatpanelshd say the picture quality of the C8 is an improvement over the C7.

Lot of effort to get the same-old same-old from Sky, BBC, Coronation St and other dross

Perplexes me that in 2018 were still *that* obsessed with picture quality. Smh. Seriously. It’s so marginal now. There were huge leaps in picture quality between the years from 2005 through 2015, but anything since is relatively marginal. For instance, the “old” BV7-55 MK2 still has a superb picture and so does the BV12-65.

On the other hand, if you can make it better at a similar price then why wouldn't you?

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Michael
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Michael replied on Tue, Nov 27 2018 4:38 PM
moxxey:

Perplexes me that in 2018 were still *that* obsessed with picture quality. Smh. Seriously. It’s so marginal now. There were huge leaps in picture quality between the years from 2005 through 2015, but anything since is relatively marginal. For instance, the “old” BV7-55 MK2 still has a superb picture and so does the BV12-65.

I really do not agree. Oled is quite new on big screens and a lot is happening there. There’s also all kinds of new technology like HDR formats and input types. And with higher resolution comes needs for adapting lower res content without causing blocky picture. Something that gets better and better, especially this year with better algorithms and more processing power in at least the LG series.

I would also like if they could do true tone and light correction as the Avant series 2014 did but eclipse can not do. Just as an iPhone, iPad and new Mac computers do.

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I bought one content in the knowledge, that as I get older and technology improves, my eyesight diminishes thus negating any further improvements.

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moxxey:

Perplexes me that in 2018 were still *that* obsessed with picture quality. Smh. Seriously. It’s so marginal now. There were huge leaps in picture quality between the years from 2005 through 2015, but anything since is relatively marginal. For instance, the “old” BV7-55 MK2 still has a superb picture and so does the BV12-65.

As a side note, it still amazes me that with all the science, R&D etc. going into micro-electronics etc......all the manufacturers still make cr@ppy user interfaces fit for kindergarten class, remote controls and on average, poor integration with other products.

smuehli
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smuehli replied on Wed, Nov 28 2018 9:13 AM

@@Chris Townsend

With this in mind:

You could have stayed at the Avant 32" and VHS :-))))

 

(sorry for my crappy syntax)

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Wed, Nov 28 2018 12:32 PM

Puncher:

On the other hand, if you can make it better at a similar price then why wouldn't you?

Yes, but you miss my point. It's not just about "picture quality". If it was, we'd all go for an LG. It's more about the overall experience.

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Wed, Nov 28 2018 12:35 PM

Michael:

I really do not agree. Oled is quite new on big screens and a lot is happening there. 

You think? When I look at the latest OLED screens they just look really sharp to me (compared the smooth BV12-65/BS4) - and then you need a more expensive 4K source to get the best from them anyhow.

There were far more jumps in panel improvements a few years ago. 

I just don't get why middle-aged men sit here and talk about improvements in picture quality in 2018 as if it really makes such a difference to their visual experience - there really isn't a stunning improvement between 4K to HD, in my experience, compared to HD versus SD.

Michael
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Michael replied on Wed, Nov 28 2018 12:38 PM

moxxey:

Michael:

I really do not agree. Oled is quite new on big screens and a lot is happening there. 

You think? When I look at the latest OLED screens they just look really sharp to me (compared the smooth BV12-65/BS4) - and then you need a more expensive 4K source to get the best from them anyhow.

There were far more jumps in panel improvements a few years ago. 

I just don't get why middle-aged men sit here and talk about improvements in picture quality in 2018 as if it really makes such a difference to their visual experience - there really isn't a stunning improvement between 4K to HD, in my experience, compared to HD versus SD.

Im 33 and I enjoy technology. The thing with 4K is not only the resolution but color depth and the different ways to get that, including not only color but also luminance. I don't watch a lot of different panels all the time, but if I buy one I want one that is up to date. Everyone is different but for me current tech is always more fun to buy than older tech. Even if it is probably very good for what it was then. 

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Sandyb replied on Wed, Nov 28 2018 1:55 PM
Not sure it's as obvious as buying an LG.

While the LG is often cited as the best all rounder, most reviewers agree that there is no standout even when looking at picture quality alone.

Amongst the Sony, Panasonic and LG OLEDs, they each have their strengths (Sony for up scaling, motion), Panasonic for color accuracy and filmic quality, etc etc). Even the Samsung Q9 and Sony ZD9 may be the best choice for bright rooms, amongst LCD panels.

I'd tend to take the reviewers at their word - the right choice depends on the use case / environment.

That all said, I'd go for an LG myself, as its OS still wins over Android etc.

And as I've said before, I'm not sure if that many even on this forum are videophiles, in the same way that they / we are sensitive to audio quality.
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Sandyb replied on Wed, Nov 28 2018 2:11 PM
Not sure if I quite agree.

Yes, if you have a top notch TV from 2013/4, I.e the pre 4K HDR Era, they can still be incredibly good. Like you, I see no need to rejig everything to change my BV12-65 to an OLED.

That said, I can't quite say my BV12-65 can achieve the type of image an OLED can with a 4K HDR Blu-ray can.

One (you, I etc) may not prefer the latter in a broad tonal sense, and the newer panel technologies may produce images that are too beyond real, but that's an issue of preference, if one takes that view.

In the end, as the overwhelming majority of my viewing is HD SDR, I don't need to upgrade. And if I was forced to, it would be tough, as the Sony up scaling of HD content is noticeably better, though the OS is unacceptable, so getting an LG (as the best all rounder), would be a slightly uncomfortable compromise.

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