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Broken BeoSound 9000

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mhenryk
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mhenryk posted on Mon, May 7 2018 10:36 PM

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Hi All,

 

Few weeks ago I bought BeoSound 9000. I bought it as faulty (does not power up) and my intention is to make it fully operational (so good intentions I guess). It is such a beautiful piece of electronic that scrapping it would be just a shame.

This particular CD player apparently went thru number of people who tried to fix it but they didn’t succeed. I guess I’m next one in the line here. Just to be clear I’m an electronic engineer by profession and I hope this helps here.

 

Version of BeouSound 9000 I bought is:

Mark II

Type no: 2563

Inside there a firmware version: A2 SW 2.0 8343406

It is 110V version that someone swapped mains transformed to the 230V version.

 

I manage to find schematic for Mark III version and this is what I’m using for my debug. So far majority of components and connections matches this schematic. I found some differences in interconnectivity around main processor only.

 

I went thru Mark III schematic and after some time I discover that main relay does not engage (hence player would not start). I short transistor (TR17) that enables main relay (RL1) and this brought some live to the player. Here is what I manage to observe:

-          Using main keyboard I can:

o   Enable and control radio (fully working including RDS, I can hear audio thru headphones)

o   Enable and control clock (looks like fully working),

o   Control all sound parameters (balance, volume, bass, treble, loudness). I got access to all of those controls after shorting pin 4 and pin 2 on speaker Powerlink connector.

o   When in CD player mode, player behaves randomly. If particular sequence of events is followed I was even able to play CD. It is not robust thou. Sledge does not move as expected. When hitting end it still tries to pull sledge (end sensor works and I can see REFERNCE POSITION signal from END STOP DETECTOR reaching P55 on PCB35 (Motor Control). It is like motor processor ignores the signal?

-          I have Beo4 that I attempted to use to control CD player but without success. I did follow suggestions on this forum: https://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/13714.aspx?PageIndex=1&PageIndex=1 but CD player does not respond to commands from remote.

o   I did get to the P14 connector on PCB34 where I measure pin 3. I could see that IR receiver picks up signal from remote but for some reason microprocessor ignores it. Since I can get access to Volume controls in the player (balance, volume, bass, treble, loudness) and pins 2 and 4 on Powerlink are shorted I assume player should respond to remote controller.

 

So I’m starting to hit the wall and would much appreciate help and suggestions from more experience people.

 

One of my questions would be, what firmware in BeoSound checks (after power up) before it enables relay RL1 using transistor TR17 that is controlled by IC7 (on Power Supply PCB4 board)?

Maybe clue that would answer why CD player does not won’t to start is there? Maybe main microprocessor performs some sort of check-up sequence and since something does not work it stops? If I remove short that enables RL1 I can only get main red LED blinking slowly (CD player does not respond to any button at all).

 

Another question would be regarding any suggestions how I could debug it further.

Is there a chance that there is some issue with firmware code itself?

Am I facing here, buying new PCB35 (Motor Control) or PCB34 (Power Supply)?

 

Thanks for your time and appreciate any help.

 

Cheers,

Henryk

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Weebyx
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If there is no powerlink speakers connected to the BS9000, it will go into option 0 by default, which means no IR reception. In the service manual there is a section describing how to make a dummy PL connector that will simulate a speaker.

Regarding the sledge. If the big tacho wheel is very dusty, it cannot detect when at how fast the sledge is running, so make sure that is clean(be carefull not to bend it) It is in the middle of the unit, you cannot miss it.

Also, if the laser is not working anymore, then it can also do funny stuff, and last, it the glass is not attached, it can only run slow.

 

/Jacob

Beobuddy
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This is a tricky one.

 

Some months ago I got the request to transform a BS9000 from 110V to 220V I suggested to order the european version of the mains transformer, but it left at the request and they thought that the could achieve the conversion without swapping. So, just curios where this unit comes from.

 

The powersupply from a BS9000 is a clever one and tricky.

I would start to check a few things first. What partnumber does the transformer have. Check is there is a steady 100hz signal behind the 2 small diodes L4148 just next to the main bridge rectifier. If there is, the software expects still a 120hz signal as it might be an US softwareversion. So start with an european version of the software. (haven't checked where the 2563 is sold)

 

The relay switches between 2 different setting at the primary side of the transformer. When no action is needed from the player it sets the secundairy to a lower voltage than when needed. If the BS9000 is brought into functionality, then the transoformer gives a higher secundary voltage.

In standby the rectified voltage should be around 16V, brought into action it should be somewhere between 25-30V.

 

If you get it into servicemode check the frequency testmode.You can safely take out the ribbon cable between PCB 34 and 35.The relay should always click, even when the device has a power problem (part of the routine).

MediaBobNY
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Beobuddy:

(haven't checked where the 2563 is sold)

That's a US version Mk II

Beobuddy
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MediaBobNY:

Beobuddy:

(haven't checked where the 2563 is sold)

That's a US version Mk II

Ok.

I've checked at several software ic's and they are also stamped with 8343406 on it (manual mentions different partnumber, but that happens often)

I happen to have the 2.2 software which also has 8343406 on it. That's normal.

So, that leaves the lack of the 100hz signal or still a transformer problem.

 

mhenryk
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Hi Guys,

 

First of all I really appreciate your time and help here. Thanks for it.

 

Now to your notes:

 

Weebyx:

1.       Remote controller.

I thought I made dummy connection (short between pin 4 and pin 2 on speaker Powerlink connector) but obviously what I did didn’t work. So I finally connected one of my BeoLab 8000 speakers and voila – Remote controller is working! Thanks for repeating this suggestion. Progress already :)

2.       Tacho wheel on sledge motor looks rather clean. For now I’m not going to touch it. Let see how it goes with other ideas. Thanks for suggestion though.

3.       At some point in time I manage to play CD (and hear sound) so I think laser should be OK (at least partially).

4.       I came across information that when glass is not attached sledge will run slow. I do expect that. I did confirm that bottom prism (for hand protection when glass is closed and sledge run fast) emits infrared light (which is good).

 

Beobuddy:

1.       I bought this BeoSound 9000 from someone in Ireland. I think person who was selling knew that this is good device but they didn’t have know-how how to fix it.

2.       Regarding transformer I can confirm that model installed inside BeoSound is: 8013551 99/39. If I look at Bang-Olufsen-Beosound_9000_Mk3-Service-Manual, page 52 I can find information as below:

90T1 8013551 Transformer 230V f/type 2571, 2572, 2577, 2580

This convinced me that this is right transformer for European 230V mains.

3.       I can confirm that there is 100Hz signal present at the cathode side of D2 and D46.

4.       I measured voltage at the C4 (just after rectifier).

a.       In standby state (when LED is just blinking and BeoSound exhibits no life) it is around +13V.

b.      When I force main relay (RL1) to engage (short TR17) voltage at C4 ramps up to around +35V

Would you consider this being outside of speck? They are according to your suggestions and schematic notes.

5.       Since thanks to Weebyx I got my Beo4 to interact with BeoSound. Based on description in Bang-Olufsen-Beosound_9000_Mk3-Service-Manual, page 69 I can only enter test modes from standby. This is a problem since there is no stand-by per say at the moment. BeoSound is dead (when I do not force RL1) or is half-operational when I do force RL1. Any suggestions here?

BTW, Beobuddy, can you point me to right test that you called “frequency testmode”

 

MediaBobNY:

1.       Correct 2563 is US version. On main unit label (under keyboard) it clearly states 120V. What is interesting it also states 50-60Hz. It would imply that both 50Hz and 60Hz mains are fine for it (just thinking loud here).

 

Beobuddy:

1.       To your suggestion about lack of 100Hz. I guess you mean lack of 120Hz, right? If that is the case how this plays with statements on main label that unit is compatible with 120V and 50-60Hz?

I should have some signal generator handy tomorrow. If that happens I might apply 120Hz between R7 and R47 and see if that makes any difference to power-up sequence.

2.       What do you think about rectifier output being at +13V in standby and +35V in operational state? Do you think there might be an issue with transformer? When I measure voltage straight from the transformer (at P17) I get 26V AC which is as expected, right?

3.       Any suggestions how to get into test mode menu in current state of BeoSound? Wold that help with anything anyway?

 

Again, thanks for your time and great help here. Much appreciated.

Henryk

mhenryk
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mhenryk replied on Tue, May 15 2018 12:21 AM

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Hi Guys,

 

Quick update on my side. I manage to:

-          Provide external power supply to the input of rectifier (disconnect main transformer and connect external power supply)

-          Connect generator to the inverted input of IC2 (op-amp LM393).

With setup like that I manage to confirm, that when input voltage is set to ~18V (~16V after rectifier) and:

-          100Hz signal is not present at the IC2 inverted input BeoSound will not start.

-          100Hz signal is present at the IC2 inverted input BeoSound will start.

-          120Hz signal is present at the IC2 inverted input BeoSound will start.

-          Once BeoSound starts and I remove 100Hz/120Hz signal player will power down.

This proves to me that 100Hz circuitry works fine for both 100Hz and 120Hz inputs frequencies.

 

In any case though RL1 will not engage and that is main problem in my opinion. Whatever I do, I cannot get RL1 engage by BeoSound itself. It’s like there is something else that prevent this from happening. I didn’t probe RELAY ON signal yet (output from IC7 (4094) on PCB34. It is not easy to access it.

 

Three things:

 

1.       Any advice what else would prevent RELAY ON signal from turning ON would be great. Maybe there is some handshake between motor processor (IC2 on PCB35) and main microcomputer? Just guessing.

 

2.       Can someone confirm that in order to move BeoSound into test mode I have to follow sequence as below?

a.       Move BeoSound into Stand-by mode

b.      Set Beo4 controller into RADIO or CD mode.

c.       Add SHIFT button in Beo4.

d.      Press LIST button until SHIFT appears on Beo4 screen

e.      Press Go

f.        Press 9 then 0 then 2 then 5 then 6

At this stage BeoSound should display TM_and_number and I should be able to move between test modes, right?

 

3.       Main transformer wiring.

Can someone confirm that wiring on the primary side of main transformer is correct? What I can see inside the box is what is in attached photo. With this wiring I measure on the AC output of the transformer:

o   10.7V (AC) when RL1 relay is not engaged

o   26V (AC) when RL1 relay is engaged (manually by me)


As always thanks for your time and help. Much appreciated,

Henryk

 

Beobuddy
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Beobuddy replied on Tue, May 15 2018 10:28 AM

Hi,

 

The testseqence is 9 0 2 5 8

You only need a working 5Volt powerrail  behind the regulator.

Discconnect the ribbon cable if you suspect the motorcontrolboard. You still should have a burning standbyled.

The relay only switches during the setup routine a few seconds and then switches off again.

Try removing the eprom with it's settings. Just leave the software in it's place. Try again.

The CD4094 sometimes becomes defective. Check whether pin 12 comes up a few seconds after switching the powerbutton on.

mhenryk
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mhenryk replied on Tue, Jun 12 2018 12:17 AM

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Hi Beobuddy and All,

 

There is a progress. I think we won the battle but war is not over yet.

After a bit of tinkering around I finally manage to locate broken transistor TR17 (on PCB34). This is the one that powers main relay switch. I know it sounds obvious.

Anyway, with new transistor now I can:

-          Fully control BeoSound with Beo4.

-          Radio works fine,

-          Clock and audio settings works fine,

-          I can turn into CD player mode and:

o   Sledge will not move if I select any of CD positions. I can see that when sledge is located in position 1 then mechanism tries to pull even further for a second or two and then gives up (it’s like some over current sensor kicks in or some sort of timeout routine).

o   When CD is loaded into position 1 then - some time - I can get CD to play (can hear sound). Other time CD won’t start spinning (I can see that mechanisms tries to start – small movements) and BeoSound will shut down itself after 10..20 seconds.

o   When sledge is at different position than 1 CD will not play at all. I think this is intentional and it proves that end detector (hall detector located on PCB9 works.

 

Here are some extra information from BeoSound test modes:

1.       After executing TM 23 I got:

a.       App 2.0

b.      Link 1.6

c.       Motor 2.1

d.      Tuner 1.3

e.      CD X.XXX

Could that imply that someone changed CD laser?

 

2.       Should I expect something to see on the display other than CD FOCUS ON when I execute TM61? I just see this statement and that’s it.

 

3.       When I turn on TM67 (The CD starts playing) I get error CD ERROR 2

 

4.       When I turn on TM 73 (adjustment of autopositioning) I get CD ERROR 2

 

When I check what CD error means it looks like “Focus error. The CD could not focus within the time limit”

 

Would that point to a wrong/broken laser? If so, would wrong laser have anything to do with blocking ability for sledge to move? Any hints here are more than welcome.

 

Again thanks for your time guys. It is much appreciated,

Henryk

mhenryk
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mhenryk replied on Wed, Jun 13 2018 11:34 PM

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Hi All,

 

I’ve done a bit more reading and tinkering around with BeoSound.

1.       I discovered that when I keep glass door open, sledge move as it supposed to which is great.

2.       I discovered that when I move BeoSound into test mode and switch to CD and then execute test mode TM23 I can read back CD 2.0

 

Points:

1.       When I turn on TM67 (The CD starts playing) I get error CD ERROR 2

2.       When I turn on TM73 (adjustment of autopositioning) I get CD ERROR 2

Are still valid.

When I check what CD error means it looks like “Focus error. The CD could not focus within the time limit”

Should I expect something to see on the display other than CD FOCUS ON when I execute TM61? I just see this statement and that’s it.

 

Should I just go ahead and start looking for new laser or could there potentially be another issue here? For example, could broken cable between sledge and main PCB cause laser to not be able to focus (I doubt). Is it worth trying to clean laser/lens?

 

Thanks,

Henryk

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Thu, Jun 14 2018 7:00 AM

mhenryk:

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Hi All,

 

I’ve done a bit more reading and tinkering around with BeoSound.

1.       I discovered that when I keep glass door open, sledge move as it supposed to which is great.

2.       I discovered that when I move BeoSound into test mode and switch to CD and then execute test mode TM23 I can read back CD 2.0

 

Points:

1.       When I turn on TM67 (The CD starts playing) I get error CD ERROR 2

2.       When I turn on TM73 (adjustment of autopositioning) I get CD ERROR 2

Are still valid.

When I check what CD error means it looks like “Focus error. The CD could not focus within the time limit”

Should I expect something to see on the display other than CD FOCUS ON when I execute TM61? I just see this statement and that’s it.

 

Should I just go ahead and start looking for new laser or could there potentially be another issue here? For example, could broken cable between sledge and main PCB cause laser to not be able to focus (I doubt). Is it worth trying to clean laser/lens?

 

Thanks,

Henryk

 

Focus Error = dead laser, so start looking, but be aware, that there are no "cheap" versions for MK3 and MK2 units that has been upgraded. You will 99% sure need to buy a new from B&O, and since they do not sell them as parts anymore, it gets a bit more difficult.

You can try BeoBuddy on this site, he has once helped get a new MK3 laser.

If your unit has the CDM12.4 laser, you can find versions on ebay that will work 93% of the time. The MK3 version I have bought has worked 0% of the time, so dont waste your money.

/Weebyx

marexy
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marexy replied on Thu, Jun 14 2018 8:47 AM

yes ..aggree

if any one on these forum than BeoBuddy can help you!

solderon29
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You can send the complete cd transport mechanism,ie,the laser carriage inc disc motor and sledge drive motor etc,to a specialist repairer here in the U.K.

He will replace the laser with the correct type and check the operation of the mech too.

I've sent several mech's for repair in the past of all B&O types,and had no problems with their function.

e.mail me for details.

Nick

Peter
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Peter replied on Thu, Jun 14 2018 9:38 AM

Henryk,

please read the topic "CD Not Playing on Beosound 9000" to have some idea on laser cleaning/replacing.

mhenryk
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mhenryk replied on Thu, Jun 14 2018 10:49 PM

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for all advises. Much appreciated. Looks like laser is where I should focus my attention now. Once I make some time to look at CD drive I'll check which laser is fitted and take it form there.

 

Cheers,

Henryk

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