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BEOVISION ECLIPSE

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DMacri
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DMacri replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 2:21 PM

Well stated, @crossbytje. I agree with your observations. Sadly, the Eclipse does not check very many boxes for me or my wife. Not enough style or substance for the premium we are being asked to pay.

Dom

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mr_anders_son
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Jeff:

Who died and made you the thread police, to put it pointedly. Threads will wander where they will, but you want to police other people's opinions?

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

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The Beonic Man
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It's great to see mr_anders_son humorous and well taken response to Jeff's policing comments and that makes me smile and remain hopeful for us as a forum and for B&O! I have always enjoyed this forum immensely as people are generally very polite and well intentioned, so well done to us all for being able to argue constructively and well spirited.

We have indeed wondered into different areas as Jeff rightly points out and that is no bad thing. Some of us are buying newly released products and others are not. These decisions are all based on pure passion from each and every one of us that of course sparks lively debate and discussion, which personally I really love and look forward to. I am grateful to Lee, Keith, Peter and all the Beoworld team for creating and maintaining such an exciting and well informed online forum to be a part of. My evenings would not be the same without Beoworld.

@crossbytje: Thank you for a wonderful well thought out post, which was put so well. You have expressed all my own thoughts and clearly many others and articulated those as has already been mentioned in an excellent way.

Clearly many of us feel disheartened by B&Os product releases in recent years, particularly with TVs but equally we are hopeful and eager for them to get back that magic they once had. Who knows why it has gone? There are probably so many reasons. Management may well be one of them. Personally I think the loss of David Lewis has had a significant effect in terms of design; I also felt some years ago when B&O decided to franchise that this could be the start of a downward spiral too. I knew the customer service I was used to would never be the same again and it hasn't been.

My understanding from my local dealer is that many of the software developers hired for the BV14/Horizon/Avant android TVs have been fired! If this is true, then at least this demonstrates B&O are doing something positive from a software perspective and they want to get it right. However, the same dealer also admitted that when he first saw the Eclipse TV some time ago, both he and many colleague dealers were disappointed and saw it as a poor effort. He also commented that feedback from dealerships often falls on deaf ears, so this does go back to management again. If this too is the case then it's really a shame because its the dealers first hand who know more than anyone else what happens 'on the shop floor,' what people want and what sells. If nobody is listening then nothing will change.

I can only hope that B&O do start having meetings where they completely rethink their whole strategy as a business otherwise I fear sooner or later we may see the end of an era. 

BV11-46, BV8-32, V1-32, BS2, P6, A1, H95, E8, BR1, Beo4, Essence

BeoET
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BeoET replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 6:00 PM

It's time to replace our BV5 mk2. Went to the local B&O store today with my wife (I've seen & testet the Eclipse a few times already myself). I have to admit that the design of the Eclipse appeals more and more to me, each time I'm at the store and watch it myself. The slim panel with the alu sound bar and the glass element below gives it a balanced design, both On and Off. Really well proportioned! My wife, being an architect, immediately liked the design, and we agreed on the alu speaker - will fit well with our BL5s. We haven't made an order of the 65" version yet though - want to be certain that the Eclipse will work together with our BS9000 (the local dealer would check this out). In addition, given that it works to manage the BS9k, we'll replace an old BV6000 with the BV5, and then connect our BL8k to the BV5. We want to be able to play music from the Eclipse to both rooms (like we can with ML today), without too many extra boxes/ML-NL converters.

EDIT: Here is our current setup in our living room:

 

BV Eclipse 65, BV5, BS Core, BL5, BL8000, BS9000, Beolit 12, A1, A2, P2, H8, H9i, H7, E8

Chris Townsend
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I'm keeping mine, and ditching everything else.Yes - thumbs up

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mr_anders_son
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Chris Townsend:

I'm keeping mine, and ditching everything else. Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Avant RF 28, Beolab 5, Beolit 15, Beoplay A1/A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H3 ANC/H8/H6/H2, Form 2, Beoplay A3, Beovision 5-42 connected to a DVD1

Great if you will stay in 1992Stick out tongue

I will go on to the future...

BUT...I love the old BV's...I have a BV5 in my studio and I love it!!

BeoVision Eclipse 55"...BeoLab 5 FRONT....BeoLab 4000 as REAR....BV5 HD....Beoplay V1-40....BV10-32....BC6-26....Beosound 9000....Beosound 1 New York edt....Beogram 4002....Beoplay M5....Beoplay M3....Beoremote Halo....BeoRemote One BT....Beo6....Beo4....Beo4 Cinema....BeoLink 7000....Serene....H95 Black LTD....H9i Rimowa....6 x H6....Form 1....U70...

mr_anders_son
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BeoET:

It's time to replace our BV5 mk2. Went to the local B&O store today with my wife (I've seen & testet the Eclipse a few times already myself). I have to admit that the design of the Eclipse appeals more and more to me, each time I'm at the store and watch it myself. The slim panel with the alu sound bar and the glass element below gives it a balanced design, both On and Off. Really well proportioned! My wife, being an architect, immediately liked the design, and we agreed on the alu speaker - will fit well with our BL5s. We haven't made an order of the 65" version yet though - want to be certain that the Eclipse will work together with our BS9000 (the local dealer would check this out). In addition, given that it works to manage the BS9k, we'll replace an old BV6000 with the BV5, and then connect our BL8k to the BV5. We want to be able to play music from the Eclipse to both rooms (like we can with ML today), without too many extra boxes/ML-NL converters.

Thats great to hearYes - thumbs up

BeoVision Eclipse 55"...BeoLab 5 FRONT....BeoLab 4000 as REAR....BV5 HD....Beoplay V1-40....BV10-32....BC6-26....Beosound 9000....Beosound 1 New York edt....Beogram 4002....Beoplay M5....Beoplay M3....Beoremote Halo....BeoRemote One BT....Beo6....Beo4....Beo4 Cinema....BeoLink 7000....Serene....H95 Black LTD....H9i Rimowa....6 x H6....Form 1....U70...

Millemissen
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mr_anders_son:
Chris Townsend:

I'm keeping mine, and ditching everything else. Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Avant RF 28, Beolab 5, Beolit 15, Beoplay A1/A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H3 ANC/H8/H6/H2, Form 2, Beoplay A3, Beovision 5-42 connected to a DVD1

Great if you will stay in 1992Stick out tongue

I will go on to the future...

BUT...I love the old BV's...I have a BV5 in my studio and I love it!!

Staying in 1992 can be great - and ok....

.....but not if you are a company, that wants to sell tv's with excellent picture and sound in 2017.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

KMA
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KMA replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 8:17 PM
BAND'OH!:

It's great to see mr_anders_son humorous and well taken response to Jeff's policing comments and that makes me smile and remain hopeful for us as a forum and for B&O! I have always enjoyed this forum immensely as people are generally very polite and well intentioned, so well done to us all for being able to argue constructively and well spirited.

We have indeed wondered into different areas as Jeff rightly points out and that is no bad thing. Some of us are buying newly released products and others are not. These decisions are all based on pure passion from each and every one of us that of course sparks lively debate and discussion, which personally I really love and look forward to. I am grateful to Lee, Keith, Peter and all the Beoworld team for creating and maintaining such an exciting and well informed online forum to be a part of. My evenings would not be the same without Beoworld.

@crossbytje: Thank you for a wonderful well thought out post, which was put so well. You have expressed all my own thoughts and clearly many others and articulated those as has already been mentioned in an excellent way.

Clearly many of us feel disheartened by B&Os product releases in recent years, particularly with TVs but equally we are hopeful and eager for them to get back that magic they once had. Who knows why it has gone? There are probably so many reasons. Management may well be one of them. Personally I think the loss of David Lewis has had a significant effect in terms of design; I also felt some years ago when B&O decided to franchise that this could be the start of a downward spiral too. I knew the customer service I was used to would never be the same again and it hasn't been.

My understanding from my local dealer is that many of the software developers hired for the BV14/Horizon/Avant android TVs have been fired! If this is true, then at least this demonstrates B&O are doing something positive from a software perspective and they want to get it right. However, the same dealer also admitted that when he first saw the Eclipse TV some time ago, both he and many colleague dealers were disappointed and saw it as a poor effort. He also commented that feedback from dealerships often falls on deaf ears, so this does go back to management again. If this too is the case then it's really a shame because its the dealers first hand who know more than anyone else what happens 'on the shop floor,' what people want and what sells. If nobody is listening then nothing will change.

I can only hope that B&O do start having meetings where they completely rethink their whole strategy as a business otherwise I fear sooner or later we may see the end of an era.

Well said, indeed.

In a similar spirit, I just started a new thread "The new B&O". Or at least I tried to start the new discussion: my pretty long prologue went either to cyberspace or to moderation (don't know which – sometimes I wonder why I paid for Gold membership)*

The new thread, should it ever appear, might be the place to discuss where B&O is today, and where they might be heading.

This Eclipse thread may not be the right place for all the talk that goes on here Smile

* I did copy the foreword to Notes.

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 9:00 PM

Chris Townsend:

 

 

 

I'm keeping mine, and ditching everything else.Yes - thumbs up

That's a "proper" Beovision. I think the last true BV made was the 11, and the 12, though as far as being the whole integrated single box smack, it would have to be the 11 even though the picture was better on the 12. Personally I think it would have been smarter for B&O to make an integrated sound bar with the guts of the SS processing, with some good wall mounts, and maybe a table stand/floor stand that accepted the standardized mounts used today on the backs of TVs, and let you choose your own panel. Different people will prefer different panel technologies, and the tech keeps changing. Some people go gaga for the ultra bright LCD panels, which I loathe, but if they wanted that, let them have it. Some want OLED, and some like the final generation of plasmas. But I think B&O has lost a lot of mojo lately, and are thrashing. The period where they were desperately trying to regroup and also attract investors and such resulted in them pushing a lot of products out before they were truly ready for prime time, to show they had a full lineup. So you got poor s/w, designs that didn't last long, (Playmaker I to Playmaker 2 to Essence 1 to Essence 2 in how long a time?), and a lot of dissatisfied Moment and other customers. Time will tell how their business handles this but the current results are not optimistic, they are essentially a dead brand in the US.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 9:17 PM

mr_anders_son:
Jeff:

 

Who died and made you the thread police, to put it pointedly. Threads will wander where they will, but you want to police other people's opinions?

 

Jeff

 

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

 

 

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"Laugh while you can monkey boy!" - John WorfenStick out tongue

 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

mr_anders_son
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Jeff:

"Laugh while you can monkey boy!" - John Worfen

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

It's just this that makes Beoworld a bad forum.

Right on spot JeffYes - thumbs upA*****e

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Mikipidia
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Oh lighten up, it is not a hard thing to doHuh?

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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 9:33 PM

mr_anders_son:
Jeff:

 

"Laugh while you can monkey boy!" - John Worfen

 

 

Jeff

 

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

 

 

 

It's just this that makes Beoworld a bad forum.

 

Right on spot JeffYes - thumbs upA*****e

It's a joke son, Jesus you Swedes are squares. I'll explain it for you, it's a quote from a very funny movie. There's this little thing you may not have heard of, as it was invented by Americans, called Google. Try it sometime, you might not show your backside next time. Sheesh.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 9:54 PM

Design is a funny thing, some last better than others.

The 10/11/14 design i'd argue was much more timeless, and there are plenty of other classics that B&O have released.

Personally, that one in the picture looks interesting but a little dated to me now. If I had one i'd move onto something a bit more modern. I saw an old Grundig at a friends recently - looked cool in a museum piece kind of way, but wouldn't want one in my place. Evoking nostalgia serves only that purpose to me.

I sold my perfectly functioning Pioneer Kuro for that reason, it looked dated being chunky, and i wanted something wth a more modern slimmer profile.

While the Eclipse design has had a lukewarm reception judging by the forum, its not as if every BV was a timeless classic. In the end, making a black rectangle interesting isn't that easy, its a fairly constrained design problem.

I do wonder given the comments on this thread - B&O have had mis-steps in their TV line-up, and struggled to keep pace, no great argument there. But just as much as they haven't moved on, at the same time i suspect that some of their customers have also moved on, and irrespective of what B&O do, don't really want to spend 8000+ on a TV these days, motivated by a sense that tech is moving too quickly, and TV design are disappearing into a wafer thin bezel free rectangle. 

But hey, what do i know - millions are about to throw $1000 at an iPhone 8, so maybe there is a market for expensive black rectangles....

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:04 PM

I guess you could make the argument for as minimal a screen as possible (which to me the new Avant did a good job of being) as we no longer need large cabinets to hold electronics and tubes. I liked the Avant design, as it was a pretty minimal screen (with a thinner screen you would think it could be made even more minimalist) with a hidden speaker that popped down when in use, but was out of sight otherwise. To me that is a far better design than the Eclipse, but undoubtedly the Eclipse is cheaper to manufacture, no moving parts and motors. My personal TV is a wall mounted Panasonic plasma, with a black, quite minimal sound bar (LCR speaker) sitting under the set on the minimalist white cabinet that holds the electronics I use.My problem with the Avants was always the lack of the best panel technology and incomplete implementation of standards like HDR and such.

Was it an old Grundig TV or radio you saw? I have a beautiful pair of Grundig mid century modern looking tube radios I'm restoring now that, along with a Garrard turntable, comprised my father's very first stereo. Gorgeous in light wood and ivory plastic. To me, timelessly designed.

Jeff

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Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:11 PM

@SandyB

By the way, your comment about iPhones and how people will pay what seem to be amazing prices for them. It helps that they are subsidized by the phone companies in exchange for a contract, but to show you how badly some people seem to need the newest to stay hip and cool, my wife's 9 year old nephew had an iPhone two generations old his father gave him when the iPhone 8 came out. You or I would think it's a perfectly fine phone I'm sure, but he was so wound up about wanting a new 8 that his dad wouldn't buy him, he spent I think 15-20 dollars of his own, very limited childhood money to buy a fake iPhone 8!!! It didn't do anything, no electronics at all, but it looked like an iPhone 8 and he needed it for the status of it. Unbelievable.Surprise

Jeff

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Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:15 PM

It was a Grundig Tv unit, and a large one at that - it was at my friends parents house, bought back in the 70's i guess.

Looked cool, but as i say i really wouldn't want to see one in my place every day - but hey, thats just me. 

Not that i'm stuck on having everything new and minimal - if i had time and space, i'd get a BS9000 and mount it on the wall (and use it too)

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:20 PM

Sandyb:

It was a Grundig Tv unit, and a large one at that - it was at my friends parents house, bought back in the 70's i guess.

Looked cool, but as i say i really wouldn't want to see one in my place every day - but hey, thats just me. 

Not that i'm stuck on having everything new and minimal - if i had time and space, i'd get a BS9000 and mount it on the wall (and use it too)

Ah, thanks. I think an old TV would not look as good as these radios. The radio sitting on a table just oozes mid-century vibes to me, it's less a radio than a piece of art, the TV just tends to look more awkward I think. These radios date from the late 50s.

Like you I love minimalism. I have a BS9000, on the floor stand whereas in my last house it was on the wall. Only reason it isn't is that the walls here are not well suited. One problem I'd have with the Eclipse is that with the cabinets I use all along one wall, white low ones, the panel and speaker on the Eclipse would raise it higher than it should be, so that the centerline of the image would be enough above where your eyes naturally point to make you have to look up too much. One advantage again to the Avant or just a plain panel approach.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:27 PM

Ha! Dont know whether to laugh or cry at that....

Re phones, yes many buy them on contract, but they are paying off the phone over the course of the contract more or less. 

And many many will (as they do now) just buy the phone off contract from Apple.....thereby handing over the 1000 pretty transparently....

Coming to think of it, i might do the very same myself soon....shame on me.

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:29 PM

yes, i'd have literally the same problem - my 12-65 is at perfect height, and i have a suspended cabinet below it. 

Anyway, given that i was never in the market for changing my 12-65, i seem to have spent far too much time on this thread!

Michael
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Michael replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:42 PM
svinaik:

That is infact correct. In this case using BL5 profile will be just fine to run BL50

Not sure about it but I guess that's the best choice. But how do you control the moving lens? And how to program modes for it? Can't be done I believe. For now at least.

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moxxey replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 10:49 PM

Sandyb:

yes, i'd have literally the same problem - my 12-65 is at perfect height, and i have a suspended cabinet below it. 

I was re-watching Peaky Blinders earlier this evening on my BV12-65 and realised it's stunning. Colours are fantastic. When you watch something beautifully shot, it looks flawless on the BV12, after so many years.

Totally agree the Eclipse (or any OLED) would be a step up again, but I'd be mighty sad if I tried to trade in my BV12 as I doubt I'll get more than £1500 for it Sad

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 11:03 PM

moxxey:

Sandyb:

yes, i'd have literally the same problem - my 12-65 is at perfect height, and i have a suspended cabinet below it. 

I was re-watching Peaky Blinders earlier this evening on my BV12-65 and realised it's stunning. Colours are fantastic. When you watch something beautifully shot, it looks flawless on the BV12, after so many years.

Totally agree the Eclipse (or any OLED) would be a step up again, but I'd be mighty sad if I tried to trade in my BV12 as I doubt I'll get more than £1500 for it Sad

I have the Panasonic VT series plasma the 12 was based off of, and I find it stunning, the most film like TV I've ever seen, and in my view the 12 is still the high point of Beovision picture quality. I keep hearing how allegedly great OLED is, but in the few stores I've seen the LGs in, the choice of demo material and screen settings were so poor as to make it impossible to truly evaluate (bright store, hyped up 4k content, retina searing brightness settings). I've heard some complain about the image processing/motion processing, someday I'll hopefully find a decent demo. But remember that plasma was a very mature technology, with stunning black levels, and could have superb gray scale linearity and color processing. Other than HDR and total brightness, I'm not sure plasma will ever be really inferior to OLED in the specs that matter most.

 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 11:05 PM

Yep, i'd be very surprised if i traded mine away, at least any time in the next 3 years.

As I've said many times before, watching broadcast HD and Blu-Rays, the 12-65 holds it own against even the new OLEDs.

But obviously, if people don't have one of latter day high end plasmas, then moving to OLED's make's perfect sense.

So i'm not tempted at all, and the HDR samples in the stores mean nothing to me, at least until HDR stuff becomes way more normal. I think people normalise a lot of new tech in their minds way too quickly - not denying the destination, just the pace. How long have we had HD? And yet broadcast HD is not even full 1080P HD, and you still have to pay extra for some of it (Sports). So i'll change my TV to HDR in somewhere between 3-5 years when i can watch the Masters and Wimbledon on HDR.  Don't judge me, we all have our foibles!

 

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 11:10 PM

completely agree - have a 12-65 in my lounge.

I put an Avant 55 (pre-NG) in my bedroom last summer - if i had the space, it would have been the ex-display 12-65 sitting in my dealers showroom.

I dont mind the Avant as a second screen, but would never, repeat never, have an LCD as a main screen - and you can put that on my gravestone!

And yes, i know, that will sound very annoying to some, but it is what it is.

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Sep 9 2017 11:22 PM

History is filled with things that were there just because the technology changed and they could be built or because the manufacturers needed to churn people's equipment and sell new stuff. Take Quad and 3D televisions as examples, or when transistors first replaced tubes, they sounded awful and worse were often unstable and killed many speakers when they failed. Transistors eventually overcame their issues and moved to be the dominant technology for good reasons, whether OLED will be that way remains to be seen IMO. Granted they are superior to LCD! But if they will live up to their potential and actually be better than old plasma technology (at least the good higher end plasmas) I don't know the answer to. I do know that when the Imaging Science Foundation listed the things that were most critical to a very good image, resolution was pretty far down the list, which is why the legendary Pioneer Kuros were 720p, black level/shadow detail/contrast and gray scale linearity and color accuracy were all more important to the image.But, as plasma is dead, long live OLED I guess, at least it gives excellent blacks. I do wonder what if anything will supplant OLED.

Jeff

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Sal
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Sal replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 12:18 AM

Michael:
Not sure about it but I guess that's the best choice. But how do you control the moving lens? And how to program modes for it? Can't be done I believe. For now at least.

Here is where an end to end solution would have been something the B&O of old may have thought of: The Mobile App, talking to the BL50, talking to the profile on the TV, so that they're all in sync, and... the profile on the TV can control the BL50's features as well. An ecosystem needs to work like they belong together.

elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 4:57 AM
BAND'OH!:

It's great to see mr_anders_son humorous and well taken response to Jeff's policing comments and that makes me smile and remain hopeful for us as a forum and for B&O! I have always enjoyed this forum immensely as people are generally very polite and well intentioned, so well done to us all for being able to argue constructively and well spirited.

We have indeed wondered into different areas as Jeff rightly points out and that is no bad thing. Some of us are buying newly released products and others are not. These decisions are all based on pure passion from each and every one of us that of course sparks lively debate and discussion, which personally I really love and look forward to. I am grateful to Lee, Keith, Peter and all the Beoworld team for creating and maintaining such an exciting and well informed online forum to be a part of. My evenings would not be the same without Beoworld.

Bravo 👏 Yes - thumbs up

BeoNut since '75

elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 5:04 AM
Jeff:

Personally I think it would have been smarter for B&O to make an integrated sound bar with the guts of the SS processing, with some good wall mounts, and maybe a table stand/floor stand that accepted the standardized mounts used today on the backs of TVs, and let you choose your own panel. Different people will prefer different panel technologies, and the tech keeps changing.

Spot-on Jeff

BeoNut since '75

elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 5:41 AM
So with regrets here are my thoughts.

I have been waiting for the eclipse for years.

Not as it has been designed but the concept of a B&O with OLED HDR etc.

But first the positives.

Not that I have a problem with the design once I saw it in the flesh.

Walking through the shop door I liked it.

Spending two days with it I still like it.

As I said in my spot on to Jeffs I think they could've had something great if they had made it adaptable to integrating with anyone's Monitor.

Then I listen to the sound.

We played a stunning YouTube clip of Adele.

Sheer beauty.

We switch to Deezer.

I was surprised that music selected then Deezer selected actually starts Deezer in video mode with a bit of a screensaver.

We listen to Geoff Martin's bird on a wire recommendation.

We listen to no sanctuary here.

All brilliant.

Then I went back to testing the video side.

Played a go pro 4K clip of Riva del Garda.

Stunning.

Then we played the Gravity trailer.

Good separation left and right of Clooney and Bullock voices.

A bit soft though so I increased the volume.

And so when the rogue satellite hit the space station everyone in the shop jumped Big Smile and its a big shop - square with two story open space ceiling Surprise

The sound bar filled the space and I checked outside to see if a queue was forming !

Also played the Wonder Woman trailer to check the blacks in the alley way and fight scenes. Hmm not quite so black as I had expected ... but certainly not a pixel to seen at a nose length Big Smile

And when I inspected the back I liked the little bits of B&O panels a la the rear of the BV7 !

So all good ... what's the problem Ed ?

BeoNut since '75

Aussie Michael
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elephant:

So with regrets here are my thoughts.

I have been waiting for the eclipse for years.

Not as it has been designed but the concept of a B&O with OLED HDR etc.

But first the positives.

Not that I have a problem with the design once I saw it in the flesh.

Walking through the shop door I liked it.

Spending two days with it I still like it.

As I said in my spot on to Jeffs I think they could've had something great if they had made it adaptable to integrating with anyone's Monitor.

Then I listen to the sound.

We played a stunning YouTube clip of Adele.

Sheer beauty.

We switch to Deezer.

I was surprised that music selected then Deezer selected actually starts Deezer in video mode with a bit of a screensaver.

We listen to Geoff Martin's bird on a wire recommendation.

We listen to no sanctuary here.

All brilliant.

Then I went back to testing the video side.

Played a go pro 4K clip of Riva del Garda.

Stunning.

Then we played the Gravity trailer.

Good separation left and right of Clooney and Bullock voices.

A bit soft though so I increased the volume.

And so when the rogue satellite hit the space station everyone in the shop jumped and its a big shop - square with two story open space ceiling

The sound bar filled the space and I checked outside to see if a queue was forming !

Also played the Wonder Woman trailer to check the blacks in the alley way and fight scenes. Hmm not quite so black as I had expected ... but certainly not a pixel to seen at a nose length

And when I inspected the back I liked the little bits of B&O panels a la the rear of the BV7 !

So all good ... what's the problem Ed ? BeoNut since '75

Nicely put Ed.

elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 7:25 AM
Aussie Michael:

Nicely put Ed.

Thanks Michael.

So the problem kind of started with the Deezer experience. Why did the soundbar not behave like an Essence or as we now believe, a core-solo ?

Instead (although the unit was in standby and although I deliberately used Music > Deezer on the BR1BT did I get the screen being activated by the LG Deezer App ?

Why was TuneIn so confusing that I gave up ??

There was a Plex App but without registering or using my own account I could not test it.

Was there a Spotify app? I can't remember!

There was the SBS catch up App. Very similar to what I use currently on the Apple TV to the BV8-40.

But where was the ABC iview ? No such App in the LG store. We use the ATV's version almost every night !

What about games? I browsed the ENTIRE store (I.e. Not much depth!) and found nothing that I would use. Unlike our Apple TV where we have many apps that we use some in conjunction with our grandchildren and have lots of great fun.

So this Smart TV is no replacement for the Apple TV.

Next what about the blacks that weren't quite black ?

Back home I watched wonder woman trailer and the Riva Del Gardo go pro. I started wondering after 24 hours between viewings was the OLED that much different?

On the second visit I spent a lot of time trying to understand configuration menus. Going backwards and forwards between apps. Trying to use the keys on the remote.

The more I try the more frustrated I became. The LIST key seemed to have no function anymore.

The back button versus the exit button were inconsistent in behaviours between applications and where you were within the sequence of events.

I resorted to reading the online manual on my phone. Even the menu talks about the LG Remote and the keys being different and advising you not to get confused !

More and more I felt I was trapped in an LG world !

And finally (admitted perhaps because the shop had had little time to do the set up) we were not able to get multi room working.

And so I came away thinking I wanted to be a Beovision not at soundbar.

Which possibly rules out options that others are considering such as the Sony or the Loewe ?

Hence me starting to look at the BeoVision 14 and maybe the BeoSystem 4 for integration purposes.

And so I plan to take a look for the first time at the Android interface Sad

BeoNut since '75

elephant
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elephant replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 7:39 AM
And finally a thought on pricing ... by comparing the Australian prices with comparable LG and Sony units, and also Samsung LCD/QLEDs (lol).

I would love to do this as a table ... however it maybe an ASCII rendition

Screen

LCDs

QLED

OLED

OLED with extras

Eclipse

55

LG 2,300

LG 3,200


Pana 3,500

Sony 5,700


Loewe 12,000

Beo 16,000

65

LG 3,500


Samsung 4,700

Samsung 5,000

LG 5,500


Pana 5,500

LG 12,000


Loewe 16,000

Beo 22,000

75

Sony 5,200


LG 6,500

Samsung 8,500

82

Samsung 9,000

So I know these are not equal comparisons ... but as many others have said, even accepting features like:

- floor stand included

- WISA included

- 7.1 included with speaker groupings for combinations of speakers (8 WISA + 8 wired ?)

- 3 PUC (+ a PUC controller option ???)

- surround sound included

- remote included (but without voice control, something else I found frustrating compared to an ATV or the ATV integrated with iPhone remote app)

the differential at 65" between the LG OLED with ATMOS 4.2 and the Eclipse seems high Indifferent similar with the Loewe's which are 5.1 but minus the stand (but including the motor which is in the TV)

Nett is, a lot of our usage is via an ATV (who knows what extras will be Apple's Tuesday announcements) so the LG is not so "smart"; and perhaps doing one's own integration with a BeoSystem 4 is a good solution.

Or a BV14 ?

BeoNut since '75

Millemissen
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Flensborg, Denmark
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elephant:
And finally a thought on pricing ...

 

Screen

 

LCDs

 

QLED

 

OLED

 

OLED with extras

 

Eclipse

 

55

 

LG 2,300

 

 

LG 3,200

 


Pana 3,500

 

Sony 5,700

 


Loewe 12,000

 

Beo 16,000

 

65

 

LG 3,500

 


Samsung 4,700

 

Samsung 5,000

 

LG 5,500

 


Pana 5,500

 

LG 12,000

 


Loewe 16,000

 

Beo 22,000

 

75

 

Sony 5,200

 


LG 6,500

 

Samsung 8,500

 

 

 

 

82

 

 

Samsung 9,000

 

 

 


 

 

....and perhaps doing one's own integration with a BeoSystem 4 is a good solution.

 

The trouble with 'doing one's own integration' is, that you - due to the specs of a BSys4 - won't benefit from any UHD capacity in a new/modern display (or from an ATV5).

And you won't be able to re-route the sound from the connected tv to the BSystem

A regular 1080p tv would be all you would have....as a dumb display.

As for a comparison of prices - try adding the costs of a BSys4 including remote, a WiSA Transmitter, a good center speaker solution, an Essence/Core and the tv needed - and make an extra column in your table above.

In that case - if you want to stay clear of halfbacken SmartTV solutions and don't care about the benefits of the UHD features - why not go for a BV12NG, a BV11 or a BV Avant/2014.....B&O already made the 'own integration' for you there.

P.S. A BV14 with Android? Are you kidding?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 9:34 AM

Spotify was removed from webOS 3.5.

The statement on the Spotify website explains that they hope to return with a better version at some point in the future.

A little perspective then, to those who complained about B&O and the third party app experience - its just part of the tech / media world these days.

And is why many tech journalists wish for TV manufacturers to make a top class dumb panel, and rely on a plug in box.

AngloApulian
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Sandyb:

Spotify was removed from webOS 3.5.

The statement on the Spotify website explains that they hope to return with a better version at some point in the future.

A little perspective then, to those who complained about B&O and the third party app experience - its just part of the tech / media world these days.

And is why many tech journalists wish for TV manufacturers to make a top class dumb panel, and rely on a plug in box.

Indeed, if I were to buy a BV Eclipse I would use my an Apple TV 5 (4K HDR) instead of the WebOS apps, not to mention it would provide a better GUI and choice of apps than WebOS. In addition I wouldn't need to see any of the LG stuff either.
Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 10:05 AM
Agreed - boxes are the way to go, they're pretty small so they don't bother me

I wish the app experience was a bit better and more consistent on these boxes.

YouTube on the ATV is garbage compared to the Fire version - consistency issue

The NFL Game app on the ATV is less featured than the iOS version - a different type of consistency issue

But in general there are some good apps on the ATV, and you have a much better chance of finding an app than on a TV'S own app store / platform.

So yes, the smart box is the way to go for me. I don't invest much mental space to the TV smart platform.

At least the ATV should be getting Amazon Prime soon, which is a good thing

Michael
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Michael replied on Sun, Sep 10 2017 10:38 AM
elephant:

Thanks Michael.

So the problem kind of started with the Deezer experience. Why did the soundbar not behave like an Essence or as we now believe, a core-solo ?

Instead (although the unit was in standby and although I deliberately used Music > Deezer on the BR1BT did I get the screen being activated by the LG Deezer App ?

Why was TuneIn so confusing that I gave up ??

There was a Plex App but without registering or using my own account I could not test it.

Was there a Spotify app? I can't remember!

There was the SBS catch up App. Very similar to what I use currently on the Apple TV to the BV8-40.

But where was the ABC iview ? No such App in the LG store. We use the ATV's version almost every night !

What about games? I browsed the ENTIRE store (I.e. Not much depth!) and found nothing that I would use. Unlike our Apple TV where we have many apps that we use some in conjunction with our grandchildren and have lots of great fun.

So this Smart TV is no replacement for the Apple TV.

Next what about the blacks that weren't quite black ?

Back home I watched wonder woman trailer and the Riva Del Gardo go pro. I started wondering after 24 hours between viewings was the OLED that much different?

On the second visit I spent a lot of time trying to understand configuration menus. Going backwards and forwards between apps. Trying to use the keys on the remote.

The more I try the more frustrated I became. The LIST key seemed to have no function anymore.

The back button versus the exit button were inconsistent in behaviours between applications and where you were within the sequence of events.

I resorted to reading the online manual on my phone. Even the menu talks about the LG Remote and the keys being different and advising you not to get confused !

More and more I felt I was trapped in an LG world !

And finally (admitted perhaps because the shop had had little time to do the set up) we were not able to get multi room working.

And so I came away thinking I wanted to be a Beovision not at soundbar.

Which possibly rules out options that others are considering such as the Sony or the Loewe ?

Hence me starting to look at the BeoVision 14 and maybe the BeoSystem 4 for integration purposes.

And so I plan to take a look for the first time at the Android interface BeoNut since '75

Great wrap up Ed on both the good and bad. I'm glad you spent so much time trying out the interface and user experience as I've been saying the same. It's a lousy experience imho.

Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, 
BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, 
BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, 
BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, 
BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)  

Millemissen
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Flensborg, Denmark
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AngloApulian:
Sandyb:

Spotify was removed from webOS 3.5.

The statement on the Spotify website explains that they hope to return with a better version at some point in the future.

A little perspective then, to those who complained about B&O and the third party app experience - its just part of the tech / media world these days.

And is why many tech journalists wish for TV manufacturers to make a top class dumb panel, and rely on a plug in box.

Indeed, if I were to buy a BV Eclipse I would use my an Apple TV 5 (4K HDR) instead of the WebOS apps, not to mention it would provide a better GUI and choice of apps than WebOS. In addition I wouldn't need to see any of the LG stuff either.

No Spotify or Deezer (or Tidal) app to find on the ATV, however.

Seems you'd need multiple boxes....at least if you don't want to rely on AirPlay - or e.g. Spotify Connect to the Eclipse SoundCenter.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

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