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Beomaster 6500 slight overhaul

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tournedos
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tournedos replied on Sun, Apr 15 2012 10:21 AM

pimzel:
I have recently bought a beomaster 6500. It seemed alright but after an hour or so I can hear a relay click, it switches of and  on again resets the volume to default and resumes playing.

Once I bought a faulty 5500 that did odd things like that, and that turned out to be a faulty rectifier bridge. But it did need most of the cap work as above as well, and the no-load trimmers replaced.

--mika

sjaven
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sjaven replied on Thu, Apr 19 2012 2:44 PM

I followed your upgrade of the 6500 with great interest. I have run into what I believe is a heat problem with my old 5500, and will first of all try your 220 to 240 V conversion and see if this helps.

However I hope you can help me answer another question. When is the cooling fan supposed to run?

Allways, or only at certain temperatures??

kind regards, Erik 

Orava
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Orava replied on Fri, Apr 20 2012 8:58 AM

Who is your audio grade electrolytic supplier?

 blah-blah and photographs as needed

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Johan replied on Fri, Apr 20 2012 9:34 AM

sjaven:

However I hope you can help me answer another question. When is the cooling fan supposed to run?

Allways, or only at certain temperatures??

Certain temps, I think. The Beomaster 7000 starts the fan at 50 deg and reaches full speed at 95. I think the BM5500 is similar, but I'm not 100 %.

/  Johan

tournedos
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tournedos replied on Fri, Apr 20 2012 11:48 AM

Johan:
Certain temps, I think. The Beomaster 7000 starts the fan at 50 deg and reaches full speed at 95. I think the BM5500 is similar, but I'm not 100 %.

Yes, it is temperature controlled. However, I have never managed to see/hear one running! I guess it needs a long time of playing at large volumes. If the amp heats due to incorrect no-load current setting (bad trimpots), it is far more likely to shut down via other protection circuits before the fan starts.

@Erik, your problem is more likely to be the bad trimmers. It happens to all of them. The voltage conversion should help a bit though, but you should check the trimmers and their setting as well while you're in there.

--mika

pimzel
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pimzel replied on Thu, Apr 26 2012 8:04 PM

i have replaced and adjusted the no-load current  trimmers with succes. The beomaster plays but after approx. 20 mins I can hear the muting-relay ? click the machine no longer switches of but the relay once in a while clicks. Can I replace the relay, if so what type of relay should I order ?

tournedos
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tournedos replied on Thu, Apr 26 2012 8:10 PM

Well done so far! The remaining problem isn't going to be in the relay. They don't do anything by themselves. You probably have some bad solder or connector somewhere. The difficult thing is that it could be almost anywhere Indifferent I think I would start by carefully tapping around with something non-conductive to see if you find a place that doesn't like to be touched.

--mika

teus
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teus replied on Wed, Feb 20 2013 11:17 PM

Thanks Mika,

I did the cap replacement with this article and http://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/2085.aspx

My Beomaster 6500 was sounding horrible lately. Now it is al good again.

€25 in parts was a very good investment.Yes - thumbs up

BeoVision 7-32 DVD; BeoCenter 6-23; HDR-2; BeoLab4000's; Beolab11; T1611; BeoSystem 6500; Beolit 12 and saving for moreBig Smile

tournedos
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tournedos replied on Sun, Feb 24 2013 11:31 AM

Well done teus Yes - thumbs up

It's very rewarding when you can actually hear a difference with relatively little work & investement. That isn't nearly always the case with component upgrades.

--mika

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villeke replied on Sun, Nov 9 2014 5:40 PM
tournedos:

Hello all from Finland! I just got my first B&O device, a beautiful Beosystem 6500. I have noticed only one minor fault in the system. The right output of speaker 1 in the Beomaster 6500 is a little bit quieter when the system starts, and after raising the volume level the speaker function comes back to the normal. I have read a dozen posts here from the forum that it is the muting relay that gives the touble. Am I right, is the relay on the smaller PCB board in the picture above? Is it soldered in place? Could someone give me a link or similar to some component website or give the exact type of the relay that will fit? I could then get the right part ready when I start to disassemble the device. I am also planning to check the transformer and change the voltage to 240V if it's not already set. Thanks for the help!
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Dillen replied on Sun, Nov 9 2014 6:01 PM

Yes, that's the one.
And yes, it's soldered to the piggyback-board, which again is soldered to the preamplifier board.
I can supply the correct relay. Email or PM me.

Martin

tournedos
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Dillen beat me to it, but yes, that is a classic symptom of a failing mute relay. Anyway, before taking more drastic measures, try to operate the muting function dozens of times. Sometimes it cures the problem if it has been caused by lack of use - I had that, but now almost seven years later, the original relay is still there and working fine. If it doesn't help, you'll need to replace the relay as cleaning it never works for long.

Also, welcome and thanks for joining as a silver member Smile

--mika

villeke
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villeke replied on Mon, Nov 10 2014 6:08 PM

Thanks!

Yes, I tried to click the relay several times, but it didn't fix the problem. Also, when I changed the speakers to port 2, the volume level was noticeable louder than in speaker port 1. So I assumed that the relay is corroded, I think the device has been sitting a long time before I bought it. And if I didn't change the relay, I would always pay too much attention to volume levels between channels that it would eventually ruin my listening experience. Big Smile

villeke
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villeke replied on Thu, Nov 13 2014 11:05 PM

Thanks to Martin for supplying me the correct relay! Long weekend now so I started to get familiar with the Beomaster.

I began with changing the operating voltage to 240V. After that, soldering the PCB7 off and the old relay. Relay contacts seemed very dirty, so no wonder the sound wasn't good anymore. Then, I soldered the new relay on its place, and the six pins of the PCB7.

Then, moment of truth, I plugged in the device. The stand-by light lits but no relay clicking! Gently tapping the power amplifier relay, I found out that it had some cold soldering. I soldered the power amplifier relay with a fresh tin and now that relay clicks!

However, the newly installed speaker 1 relay doesn't make any click :/ This seems to be a NC type relay, so the speakers in port 1 are working but the mute function does not as the relay doesn't pull. I haven't test yet how it acts when connecting headphones. Also, now when starting the system from stand-by state, the loudspeakers make a quiet pop sound. So the speaker relay should be pulled when in mute and in stand-by state?

There is some improvements that happened despite this new fault. With new relay, the sound is much louder, that I had to set the start-up volume level setting much lower! Also now the sound comes out evenly from both loudspeakers. Changing of the operating voltage setting made the device a lot cooler. Now it had been in stand-by state around three hours, and the cooling fins feel almost cold, only the right (transformer) side is a little warm. Before the whole fin was hot, maybe 40-50C in stand-by! I recommend every owner of these amplifiers to do this change!

Now I have to find out what made the speaker relay dead. Is the connecting point CP3 the easiest way to measure 8V? Have to check first if the relay is getting operational voltage. Measuring is only little difficult as this relay board PCB7 is on top of another board.

villeke
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villeke replied on Fri, Nov 14 2014 4:02 PM

Ok, today I did some tests and measurements.

The relay is functioning OK, when I connect headphones the relay clicks. I did some measurements and I think the fault must be in the transistor TR2. It should ground the relay pin 2, same way like the headphone socket does when you plug the phones in. But it does not, the BE-voltage to the transistor is 0,67V when mute should be on. I don't know if this is OK.. Maybe I change the transistor and see if that helps. Smile

villeke
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villeke replied on Mon, Nov 9 2015 6:41 PM

The Beomaster has worked now like a charm for one year after I fixed the issue with the relay board. The fault was in the board itself, there was a broken contact which was only visible with magnifying glass. Jump wire fixed that OK.

I have been noticed recently that the MCP 6500 does not start Beomaster from the living room table where I keep the remote. I have to take it with me and walk one meter away from the system to turn it on. After that, all the functions work far away from the system.

Now I tried one thing: I plugged off the system from mains for 5 minutes. After I plugged it in again, the MCP works very well! Even from the another room next to the living room if the door is open! But, when I cover the MCP completely and operate it to get "No contact" on the screen, it stopped working and works now again as badly as before! I have to take the mains plug off again to get MCP working.

Is there some kind of learning function or "pairing" between the Beomaster and MCP? And operating the MCP without good contact to the Beomaster "resets" the pairing? This is quite strange.

 

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 12:44 PM

Hi Villeke, I'm from Finland as well (Lahti). I bought a Beomaster 5500 from flee market and don't know anything about it. The unit itself does not producing any sound-except when maxing out the volume...then you can hear sound. 

After going through the Beovorld forum I think this is Mute relay problem. I can see the white corrosion inside the clear plastic hub. 

I found replacement part form Digi-key net store but the problem is that I read that the relay in this Beomaster must have 6 pins. Is this correct or does it have to have 8 pins?

 

Best regards

 

E.

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 12:59 PM

Egomon:

Hi Villeke, I'm from Finland as well (Lahti). I bought a Beomaster 5500 from flee market and don't know anything about it. The unit itself does not producing any sound-except when maxing out the volume...then you can hear sound. 

After going through the Beovorld forum I think this is Mute relay problem. I can see the white corrosion inside the clear plastic hub. 

I found replacement part form Digi-key net store but the problem is that I read that the relay in this Beomaster must have 6 pins. Is this correct or does it have to have 8 pins?

 

Best regards

 

E.

The relay in the BM has 6 legs, so just cut off the 2 ekstra pins in your new relay(make sure it is the right ones you cut).. Most of the relays bought today, can be used for 2 purposes. One where the contact is made when relay-power is off, and one where contact is made when relay-power is on.

But... Your problem could also be that the linie-in/line-out jumpers on the connection panel is missing. If this is not there, then there will be very very low sound when all turned up.

Is the sound loud when turning the volume up, or very low ?

 

See here... 

http://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/41308.aspx

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/7/0/9/5/4/webimg/491459869_tp.jpg

/Weebyx

 

 

Orava
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Orava replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 1:06 PM

Moro

I have bought relays from Partco, they are ok. From Elfa yuo can get Panasonic relays round 4€. They usually have 8 pins, but only 6 of them is needed, just cut unused away or bend them under.

http://www.partco.biz/verkkokauppa/product_info.php?cPath=2065_1052_1733&products_id=7487

 blah-blah and photographs as needed

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 3:33 PM

Hi and thank you for all the help...I did not expect so fast responses. 

 

To: Weebyx- Yes sound is very low when the volume is at the max...I will have a look at it today, and will take some pictures...i'm not a tech guy myself so don't exactly know what to look for...

 

To:Orava Moro :) thanks for the link!!!

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 4:04 PM

I opened it up and it was slightly different then I have seen in this forum, image posted by villeke, and its BO 5500...

I added numbers to the relay to perhaps someone can identify perhaps which from the two is the mute relay..the other one has a lot of corrosion in it.

tournedos
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Muting relay is nr. 2 on the preamp board. The other relay belongs to the power supply and you don't usually need to worry about that one.

Before you do anything, Try connecting your speakers to the second speaker outputs. They don't go through the relay but play all the time. If you don't have sound there, you have other problems to sort before the relay (which may be just fine).

--mika

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 5:47 PM

Hi Mika and thank you for the help!

Yes no mater what output it is the speaker is producing still very low sound..I heard that  some guy  Dillen is selling parts sets  to Bo:s and perhaps the best way is to take on a soldering job and replace the parts that need to be replaced.

BTW the relay makes perfect click when using mute button on my remote...

 

E.

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 5:49 PM

...and the set is producing humming sound also...not trough speakers but its self and its not the ventilator....

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Weebyx replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 6:50 PM

Egomon:

Hi Mika and thank you for the help!

Yes no mater what output it is the speaker is producing still very low sound..I heard that  some guy  Dillen is selling parts sets  to Bo:s and perhaps the best way is to take on a soldering job and replace the parts that need to be replaced.

BTW the relay makes perfect click when using mute button on my remote...

 

E.

Before doing anything else, you need to make sure that the line jumpers are present, if they are not there, the unit will behave exactly as you describe..

Have you seen my 2 links ?

 

See here... 

http://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/41308.aspx

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/7/0/9/5/4/webimg/491459869_tp.jpg

 

The last is a picture showing where the 2 jumpers should be...

 

/Weebyx

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Weebyx replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 6:54 PM

Weebyx:

Egomon:

Hi Mika and thank you for the help!

Yes no mater what output it is the speaker is producing still very low sound..I heard that  some guy  Dillen is selling parts sets  to Bo:s and perhaps the best way is to take on a soldering job and replace the parts that need to be replaced.

BTW the relay makes perfect click when using mute button on my remote...

 

E.

Before doing anything else, you need to make sure that the line jumpers are present, if they are not there, the unit will behave exactly as you describe..

Have you seen my 2 links ?

 

See here... 

http://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/41308.aspx

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/7/0/9/5/4/webimg/491459869_tp.jpg

 

The last is a picture showing where the 2 jumpers should be...

 

/Weebyx

And you can find the userguide here, it shows all the connections, and how the linie-in/out jumpers should be connected..

 

http://beophile.com/?page_id=11103

 

/Weebyx

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 7:15 PM

Just had a look and on I do not have  jumpers there Weebyx!!!

 

Have a try right now...

 

Egon

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 7:15 PM

Just had a look and on I do not have  jumpers there Weebyx!!!

 

Have a try right now...

 

Egon

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 7:34 PM

Thank you Weebyx!!! that made the trick it is working and mute is working as well!!

I will test it more precise tomorrow as it is late here and I don't want to get the neighbors upset :)

and i do not have jumpers here (used wires instead to try).

 

Will post update tomorrow i hope th there is nothing else wrong wit it :)

 

Thank you again!!

 

E.

Weebyx
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Weebyx replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 7:44 PM

Egomon:

Thank you Weebyx!!! that made the trick it is working and mute is working as well!!

I will test it more precise tomorrow as it is late here and I don't want to get the neighbors upset :)

and i do not have jumpers here (used wires instead to try).

 

Will post update tomorrow i hope th there is nothing else wrong wit it :)

 

Thank you again!!

 

E.

Sometimes the solution is the simplest one ;)

Why I thought of it as the first solution, was that I have just changed mute relay in my BM7000, and forgot to put the line plug back into place ;) Had exactly the same issue as you until I put the plug back in :)

 

/Weebyx

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 7:57 PM
I dont know why but i did not see your earlier answer with links...lucky for me you posted it again 😊 I'm so hope there is nothing else wrong with it. There is the low hum to the device...
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Weebyx replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 8:16 PM

Egomon:
I dont know why but i did not see your earlier answer with links...lucky for me you posted it again 😊 I'm so hope there is nothing else wrong with it. There is the low hum to the device...

The hum is most likelly from the trafo suspension, it is rubber mounts that dry out over time. They are vey fragile now, so if you decide to do something about it, they WILL brake off into a lot of pieces.. I Have not found any good substitutions for them yet.

They are located under each of the 4 screws holding the trafo in place.

 

/Weebyx

Dennis
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Dennis replied on Mon, Feb 1 2016 9:17 PM

Your BM5500 looks to be running on the original capacitors and probably also trimmers, so make sure to keep an eye on the temperature of the cooling fins. You should be able to hold your hand on the the fins (make sure not to touch anything inside the BM if you have the top cover off and the plug in the mains!) without it feeling unpleasant even when the BM is pushed a bit harder than normal. It's pretty common that the trimmers for the idle current go bad and causes the BM5500 to run too hot, so they usually need to be replaced followed by an adjustment of the new trimmers. And the electrolytic caps will most likely be a good idea to replace as well, as they tend to dry out - and too high idle current only makes them dry out faster!

One of my acquaintances has a BM5500 and a MCP5500 that aren’t working as intended anymore, so he asked me, if I want to take a look at it. The BM is running burning hot in a matter of minutes and is humming (I suspect some high frequency noise in the pre-amplifier), so it will definitely need some attention! It will go on my workbench soon and I've thought about starting a thread about it, so maybe you can use that as inspiration for your own BM. But the work I will be doing at least requires a soldering iron, a multimeter capable of measuring mV and some basic electrical knowledge, so if you have no idea what trimmers, idle current and capacitors are, you probably shouldn't throw yourself into project like that at this point. 

/Dennis

Egomon
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Egomon replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 11:00 AM

Hi. the unit has run now for two hours and in normal volume and definitely the back cooling fins are to hot. and the humming sound from the beomaster is getting little bit louder as time go by.

And you can feel the slight vibration when holding hand on the top of the unit (cover on of-course).

 

I will wait for your thread to come online and go from there. I'm good with soldering (repairing 1970 digital wrist watches -the first ones) sot that will not be a problem...

 

Egon

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Egomon replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 11:14 AM

The humming sound is not cumming from the speakers but from the Beomaster itself. 

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Weebyx replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 11:49 AM

Egomon:

Hi. the unit has run now for two hours and in normal volume and definitely the back cooling fins are to hot. and the humming sound from the beomaster is getting little bit louder as time go by.

And you can feel the slight vibration when holding hand on the top of the unit (cover on of-course).

 

I will wait for your thread to come online and go from there. I'm good with soldering (repairing 1970 digital wrist watches -the first ones) sot that will not be a problem...

 

Egon

As I wrote in the earlier thread, this is 95% from the trafo itself.. nothing else kan hum in the BM itself.. The rubber bushings are done for, had the same issue in my BM7000, cut out some new from "hot-glue rubber" until I find a better solution, made a big difference. you can also pick it up in your hands and see if the humming becomes less.. I bet it will, and then you know its the rubber bushings on the trafo... ;)

Plastic spray like this

http://www.elfadistrelec.dk/da/beskyttelseslak-spray-165-ml-prf-202-220-plastic-spray-nordic/p/18081549

should cure it, had not tried it my self yet, it should be sprayed on the windings of the trafo from all sides, this will keep the wires from vibrating, which is the cause of the humming..

/Weebyx

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Egomon replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 12:18 PM

Thank you Weebyx. I will trye this first as thisis most simple to do :)

 

Will let you know the result

 

Egon

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Egomon replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 7:00 PM

Hi all. I changed the trafo rubber bushings to new ones - it helped a lot actually but still there was the hum clearly noticeable. So I added extra rubber bushings to the Beomasters external "legs" and the hum is gone. 

Of-course its still there, but it does not have any medium to go to and make a sound. You can feel it by touching the outer cover of the unit.

As for the temperature - I think it is ok, but in any case I will buy replace parts from one of the forum member here and it will be future project to overhaul all of the unit (including getting new top cover-previous owner has destriode it...lucky no-one has been inside the unit at all its all original in there.

I have Beolink 1000 remote control and it was a hassle to understand how to tune the radio...save radio channels...but now I know and have nice radio in my home office.

I also found, in on of the flea market's here, a nice set of Beovox 6000 RL fully working. Just needed new plastic strips, what I ordered from UK (aftermarket).

Egon

 

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Jason replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 8:35 PM

If it's just the mirrored black aluiminium that has caught the damage , I now do a perfect match replacment for the complete 6500 and 7000 series exact with slight rainbow effect in certain lights, much easier that trying to find a perfect lid

jason

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Jason replied on Tue, Feb 2 2016 8:40 PM

Just re-read and realised you have the 5500 which has a different finish than the 6500 and 7000 series, sorry to built your hopes up

jason

 

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