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NL keypad button ideas

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beojeff
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beojeff Posted: Thu, May 18 2017 6:39 PM
Since my new BeoSound 1 lacks IR and the Essence remote connection is sketchy, I thought I might program a Lutron keypad I have to trigger specific functions or sources on the BeoSound 1 via BLGW. As I'm still rather new to the NL world, I welcome your ideas and suggestion. This "10 button" keypad actually has a total of 14 buttons. Two extra buttons are at the bottom --usually used for Off and On, and there are up and down arrows. The button will be engraved with the label and backlit through the engraving. Some ideas could be a column with Deezer, Spotify, Tune In, N.music (via the Beosound 5 connected by NL converter), N.radio, and Turntable (or Aux). Another column could have n.radio stations for Jazz, Lounge, Classical, etc. It might be logical to use the 2 bottom buttons for Join and Standby. Any thoughts? Kiran? Sean? Chris Hassell?

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beojeff replied on Thu, May 18 2017 6:40 PM

mjmedlo
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mjmedlo replied on Fri, May 19 2017 3:14 AM
Great idea

I suggest

Wifi

Bluetooth

CD or whatever source

JOIN

You can actually use the up and down light buttons for volume up and down ( which I suggest)

Standby

I did this for a beolab 3500 over a showe in a room ... very good idea
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beojeff replied on Sat, May 20 2017 4:14 PM
I've been playing around a bit with the programming. I created a button for "Deezer" and one for "TuneIn." It's so easy to program. It's nice to have dedicated controls for the functions. I disliked the blind tapping to cycle through sources and the need to pull out my phone or tablet and opening an app.
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mjmedlo replied on Sat, May 20 2017 5:33 PM
Source buttons are a good idea.

As I said earlier. Try the dimmer up and down for volume it's quite helpful
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beojeff replied on Sat, May 20 2017 5:39 PM

mjmedlo:
Source buttons are a good idea.

 

As I said earlier. Try the dimmer up and down for volume it's quite helpful

I've used the up and down buttons before on Lutron keypads for step-ups and step-downs for volume. Repeating key presses until I reach the desired volume. I've been reluctant to program them, however, for continuous volume up and down though. I'm worried about loss of connection resulting in run-away volume increase. Did you program them for continuous presses for volume?

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mjmedlo replied on Mon, May 22 2017 1:56 AM
beojeff:

I've used the up and down buttons before on Lutron keypads for step-ups and step-downs for volume. Repeating key presses until I reach the desired volume. I've been reluctant to program them, however, for continuous volume up and down though. I'm worried about loss of connection resulting in run-away volume increase. Did you program them for continuous presses for volume?

I use them only for finite button up.

I'm afraid of continuous up volumes!!
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Kiran replied on Mon, May 22 2017 9:58 AM
Oh my days! I am at work!!!

I am missing all these threads because they don't come under General Discussions and I always use the iPhone app which has many categories. I will be checking properly from now on.

I will read this whole thread and get back to you!

I am loving what you're doing!!!

Regards

Kiran

Born in NL; I ride ML

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Kiran replied on Mon, May 22 2017 11:16 AM
I like to listen to some tracks over and over again. Or maybe some in a sequence I know, over and over again.

With your help on my other thread, I can line up a good number of tracks with the BS5 - favourite colour options. I will definitely be using all 4 colours and assign them to 4 buttons on the keypad.

You also confirmed I can assign a single track from numbers 1-9 which could be helpful but I could just place those tracks right at the start of a colour - which saves my Lutron buttons lol.

The only radio station I listen to is from TuneIn - BBC Radio 1Xtra - which I will also programme to a button in my little B&O playground.

I love to use my CD collection and load up the BS9000. I don't know how I will manage to choose different CDs and tracks but I will definitely try to put the BS9000 on my keypad if possible.

If you are using this keypad strictly for your music then it's ideal to have all the sources you will be listening to on the keypad?

I am so glad MJ confirmed the up and down small buttons can be used for volume! But could they also be used for operating blinds as well if a button is assigned and programmed to a window blind? I will have this. All windows will have sivoia blinds.

JOIN would be a wicked function like MJ says!

And I would definitely also have the STANDBY function so the whole experience can be achieved with the keypad and doing nothing else.

Regards

Kiran

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beojeff replied on Mon, May 22 2017 11:52 AM

I'm so glad you found this thread, Kiran! It thought you might find it really relevant to your project, and I welcome your ideas.

In reading the BeoSound 5 user guide, I found that the numeric favorites just plant a song as a seed for the MOTS. I wish that B&O would have given us the option to use the numeric favorites for other uses -- such as storing entire playlists. We have much more flexibility in what we can assign to both colored and numeric favorites in Spotify on the BeoSound 5. I'll be sad to see Spotify removed from the BeoSound 5.

I've found that some functions of the BeoSound 1 such as AirPlay would make no sense as a button. For example, to get AirPlay on a device, you must "push it" to the device from an Apple device. Once you change the source on the BeoSound 1 to something else such as Deezer or TuneIn, the AirPlay connection is lost and you must re-push it from the Apple device. I could also see the up and down buttons being useful for moving between tracks, stations, and playlists within sources.

Something else useful from creating macros in the BLGW is that we can then trigger those functions using Amazon Echo voice commands via IFTTT.

Experimenting with the keypad is a great way to explore some of the additional NL functions found in the BLGW. I'll be able to explore this further when my BeoLink Converter and BeoPlay M5 arrive in a couple of days.

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Kiran replied on Mon, May 22 2017 12:48 PM
I am trying to minimise the use of Airplay as much as possible.

Yes I do buy music from iTunes and I am in the process of doing automatic downloads to my NAS whenever I purchase any music from iTunes.

Yes that does mean updating Lutron and other things in your B&O setup to achieve playing the most recent track purchased or there could be a way around it?...

Or use the X app for finding most recent on NAS...

Regards

Kiran

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beojeff replied on Mon, May 22 2017 12:57 PM

Kiran:
I am trying to minimise the use of Airplay as much as possible.

 

 

Yes I do buy music from iTunes and I am in the process of doing automatic downloads to my NAS whenever I purchase any music from iTunes.

 

 

Yes that does mean updating Lutron and other things in your B&O setup to achieve playing the most recent track purchased or there could be a way around it?...

The Beo6 shows a cover art icon that shows the most recent addition to the BeoSound 5. It's the one in the middle of the three cover art virtual buttons. I wonder if we could use the BLGW to monitor what is being communicated in ML when this button on the Beo6 is pressed to select the recent addition to the BeoSound 5.

 

Or use the X app for finding most recent on NAS...

 

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Kiran replied on Mon, May 22 2017 1:03 PM
No that wouldn't work for me. And yes I love to use the Beo6. I do wicked things with the config tool.

I am currently using the internal hard drive of my BS5. I have upgraded it to SSD and now my BS5 is lightning quick.

My Seagate NAS does not have Twonky and always makes the BS5 crash when I change the settings to get music from the NAS.

So what I have to do every once in a while is copy some loved tunes to the SSD...

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Kiran

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Kiran replied on Mon, May 22 2017 1:56 PM
Bottom 4 buttons should be - Volume DOWN, Volume UP, JOIN, STANDBY - respectively - in my dummy proof opinion 😁

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Kiran

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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 2:33 AM
I received my Beolink Converter today. This is going to take some time to get this configured properly. It seems that there are quite a lot of limitations when a BeoSound 5 is in the setup. I might be reaching out for some help with this from my BeoWorld friends.

I created a macro to use a keypad button to trigger the A.Mem source from the Beolink Converter to play Spotify form the BeoSound 5 on the BeoSound 1. The BeoSound 1 played the Spotify from the BeoSound 5, but at the same time it activated the speakers on the V.Master. I added a command in the macro to mute the V.Master. Not as elegant as I would like to see, but it works until I find a better solution.
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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 3:34 AM

I believe I have it sorted. Because I have a BeoSound 5, I had to set the role of the BeoLink Converter to A.Slave. Then, I had to make sure under "IR mapping" that the IR Commands matched the NL source, selecting the BeoLink Converter under "NL product name."This lets me access the ML sources on the NL products, such as the BeoSound 1. Thus, I could play the ML source (such as A.Mem) on the BeoSound 1 without turning on the same source on the V. Master TV. No more need to mute the V. Master TV.

The downside to having the BeoSound 5 in the mix is the you can't access any of the NL sources from ML products. 

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Kiran replied on Wed, May 24 2017 8:03 AM
I'm always finding it hard to know what option setting my NL/ML converter should be.

Currently, it is on V.Master and I don't think it's working correctly.

I'm having trouble playing from my BL3500. My kitchen beocenter 26 BV will not play CDs or accept commands even though its all on the same masterlink.

Is there a guide on best option settings for the NL/ML?

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Kiran

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Kiran replied on Wed, May 24 2017 9:55 AM
Actually all working brilliant now. I believe you just need to leave things alone for a bit. Masterlink sync works slow...

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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 11:30 AM

Kiran:
I'm always finding it hard to know what option setting my NL/ML converter should be.

 

 

Currently, it is on V.Master and I don't think it's working correctly.

 

 

I'm having trouble playing from my BL3500. My kitchen beocenter 26 BV will not play CDs or accept commands even though its all on the same masterlink.

 

 

Is there a guide on best option settings for the NL/ML?

The 45-page BeoLink Converter NL-ML Installation Guide is helpful. The difference between our setups is that you have a NL TV. Therefore, you can set the BeoLink Converter as V.Master. However, I have a ML TV (BeoSystem 3) as my main room tv. I have a BeoSound 5 set as A.Master. Since there can only be one V.Master and one A.Master, I have to set my BeoLink Converter to A.Slave role. I tried changing my BeoSound 5's role to "A.Master: Off" and setting the BeoLink Converter to A.Master, but then I could not access my N.Music or N.Radio sources from the BeoSound 5. Perhaps I just needed to give the ML time to synchronize as you suggested? I welcome any ideas here as to what the correct settings should be for me. Otherwise, I think that I have to set the BeoLink Converter as A.Slave and not be able to access any NL sources on the ML.

Can anyone explain the settings for"Connect to (Primary)" and "Connect to (Secondary)" on the BeoLink Converter? The Installation Guide doesn't really explain this.

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Kiran replied on Wed, May 24 2017 11:45 AM

beojeff:

The downside to having the BeoSound 5 in the mix is the you can't access any of the NL sources from ML products. 

What do you mean by this?

This is my current Masterlink:

BS9000 AUDIOMASTER (no speakers attached) + BS/BM5 (no speakers attached) + NL/ML Converter VIDEOMASTER (no speakers attached) + BV Avant 2015 with all speakers attached.

I have integrated the converter with the Avant with product integration from the TV and also in the NL/ML as primary and also in the BLGW living room zone.

I also have a BS2 and BS Moment.

I can access NL sources on my BL3500 when tapping a button like DTV for TuneIn radio. I have programmed the converter IR mapping to get the source from the BS2.

I suppose you are saying you want the NL sources to play from Legacy equipment with speakers attached?

Regards

Kiran

Born in NL; I ride ML

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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 12:48 PM
Exactly.

Since my BeoLink Converter is set to A.Slave, it will not provide any NL sources on my legacy ML devices with speakers. However, my NL devices CAN access all of my ML audio sources.

It seems that since you have a NL TV, your BeoLInk Converter is essentially turning your Avant into a V.Master that can make its sources available on the legacy ML devices. I'm curious: can you only map the NL sources to be triggered by ML video source commands (such as you mentioned being able to map DTV to access TuneIn). Are ML audio sources available for mapping or are all of the ML audio sources being used up by the BeoSound 5?
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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 1:10 PM

Some observations:

When I'm playing the A.Aux source on my BeoSound 5, I cannot use JOIN on the BeoMusic app. The "+" option is no longer present.

I don't think that the BeoLink Converter uses a pure "A.Aux" command in the mapping. Rather, I think this is the "A.Aux Playback" (as it's called in the BLGW setup) which is actually a combination of commands used to access the Aux port on a BeoSound 5 when it is not in A.Master role. I think this because my BeoLab 1 speakers have always produced a short buzz whenever a ML command is sent. I believe this is due to incorrectly shielded powerlink cables that I just haven't taken the time to replace. Therefore, I noticed when I activated the "A.Aux" source from the BeoMusic app that I heard several successive buzzes instead of just a single buzz.

I would be interested in hearing more about the difference between "A.Aux" and "A.Aux Playback" if anyone has a good understanding of this.

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Kiran replied on Wed, May 24 2017 1:19 PM
beojeff:
Exactly.

I'm curious: can you only map the NL sources to be triggered by ML video source commands (such as you mentioned being able to map DTV to access TuneIn). Are ML audio sources available for mapping or are all of the ML audio sources being used up by the BeoSound 5?

Yes! Since the NL/ML is in V.Master mode, it cannot do anything about the ML audio sources and leaves them alone for the Audiomaster - my BS9000:

Radio, CD, AUX, AMEM, N.Music, N.Radio etc. all that stuff is left to the audiomaster.

I have full control over where to map the video commands - DTV, DVD, DVD2 etc.

Regards

Kiran

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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 1:24 PM

Kiran:

beojeff:
Exactly.

 I'm curious: can you only map the NL sources to be triggered by ML video source commands (such as you mentioned being able to map DTV to access TuneIn). Are ML audio sources available for mapping or are all of the ML audio sources being used up by the BeoSound 5?

Yes! Since the NL/ML is in V.Master mode, it cannot do anything about the ML audio sources and leaves them along for the Audiomaster - my BS9000:

Radio, CD, AUX, AMEM, N.Music, N.Radio etc. all that stuff is left to the audiomaster.

I have full control over where to map the video commands - DTV, DVD, DVD2 etc.

This is all making more sense now!

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beojeff replied on Wed, May 24 2017 1:32 PM

Getting back to my original topic, the BLGW really shows what could be done with assigning keypad buttons for NL products. I can now access all of my BeoSound 5 sources on the BeoSound 1 through the keypad -- without the need to open my iPhone or iPad. I can see how you could also use a second BeoLink Converter connected to a datalink BeoMaster and BeoGram turntable. This second BeoLink Converter would show up with all of its own sources as available for macros for playback on the BeoSound 1.I'm seeing where the UP and DOWN buttons would be most useful for navigating through tracks, playlists, etc.

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Kiran replied on Wed, May 24 2017 1:54 PM

Good idea. You are doing what I will be doing.

I have 5 people in the house all wanting their own Masterlink. My family loves the BL3500 in ensuites and other places.

I will also probably have 4 or 5 NL/ML converters. I love how you can set the icon of legacy equipment lol.

Regards

Kiran

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beojeff replied on Thu, May 25 2017 2:26 PM

Kiran,

Have you tried accessing your NL music from ML TVs in link rooms? It just occurred to me that a solution for me could be to set my BeoSystem 3 as V.Slave and then my BeoLink Converter could serve as V.Master. I could then get NL music on my BeoLab 3500s in link rooms. However, it would seem logical that I wouldn't be able to access the NL music from speakers connected to ML TVs that are in link rooms -- which would then also include the BeoSystem 3. 

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beojeff replied on Thu, May 25 2017 2:36 PM
beojeff:

Kiran,

Have you tried accessing your NL music from ML TVs in link rooms? It just occurred to me that a solution for me could be to set my BeoSystem 3 as V.Slave and then my BeoLink Converter could serve as V.Master. I could then get NL music on my BeoLab 3500s in link rooms. However, it would seem logical that I wouldn't be able to access the NL music from speakers connected to ML TVs that are in link rooms -- which would then also include the BeoSystem 3.

I believe I found the solution in another thread. You can access the sound from the V.Master by pressing "AV" and then the source you want played from the V.Master on the link room tv speakers.
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beojeff replied on Thu, May 25 2017 3:32 PM

So I tried changing the V.Master roles. As I suspected, this works great in link rooms with audio products, such as the BeoLab 3500. However, I can't get sound from the V.Master sources on my link room ML Tvs. Using the command "AV" didn't seem to be correct. Any help?

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beojeff replied on Fri, May 26 2017 12:50 AM

I believe I've found the solution for my Beolink Converter issues, but with mixed results.

The command to access the video source sound (here mapped from the BeoLink Converter set as V.MASTER for distribution of NL sources) is LINK and then the V.MASTER video source. I have TV as the source to trigger Deezer ("MUSIC") and PC to trigger TuneIn. Therefore, the command to get Deezer from a link room tv would be LINK + TV.

I have three B&O TVs -- each reacting differently. I have: BeoSystem 3, BeoVision 4, and BeoVision 10. Here is how they each react:

BeoSystem 3: All I have to do is press LINK + TV and I get Deezer.

BeoVision 4: I must first press a local video source to bring the TV out of standby. For example: TV + LINK + TV will play Deezer.

BeoVision 10: I must first press an audio source. Then I must go to the BeoSystem 3 to switch to Deezer. Then Deezer plays on the BeoVision 10. So, the commands are: (BeoVision 10) CD then (BeoSystem 3) LINK + TV.

BeoLab 3500: I just press TV to get Deezer.

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beojeff replied on Fri, May 26 2017 1:52 PM

Update:

I've found commands that will work consistently across all BeoVisions.

Deezer (MUSIC) = LINK + AV + TV

TuneIn = LINK + AV + V.MEM

Since the BeoRemote One requires switching the "device" setting between "BEO4 AV" AND "BEO4 LINK" it seems the best solution is to program buttons on the Beo6. Until then, I'm using an old BeoLink 1000 that I dug out from storage.

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Kiran replied on Sat, May 27 2017 12:40 PM
Thanks for all the digging you have done and putting it here. I haven't read anything yet but I'm sure it's going to help me a lot.

Will keep you updated. 👍🏻👍🏻

Regards

Kiran

Born in NL; I ride ML

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beojeff replied on Mon, May 29 2017 6:28 PM
It seemed most logical to me to assign TuneIn to the "TV" command and Deezer to the "V.MEM" command so that they would correspond on the same row on the Beo4 as NetRadio ("RADIO") and Spotify ("A.MEM") from the BeoSound 5. I assigned Bluetooth to the DTV command. On the Beo 4, I added AVLINK to the soft button list and moved it to the top of the list.

It might be useful to know that the Beo6 IR commands for Link AV TV, Link AV DTV, and Link AV V.MEM are as follows:

1:000:RADIO:TV

1:000:RADIO:V_SAT

1:000:RADIO:VTR

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Kiran replied on Mon, May 29 2017 8:52 PM
Does this mean you have now changed your NL/ML converter to V.Master?

Regards

Kiran

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beojeff replied on Mon, May 29 2017 9:12 PM

Kiran:
Does this mean you have now changed your NL/ML converter to V.Master?

Yes, Kiran.

Sorry that my thread has taken on so many more areas than how it started. So many basic aspects of communication between the BLGW, NL, and ML have been undocumented! I'm hoping that my thread can help others not to have to re-invent the wheel. When I called B&O tech support, they said that my setup with an ML BeoVision, ML BeoSound 5, and BeoLink Converter could not provide a way to access NL audio sources through ML. I called them back a couple of days later to show that it COULD be done. (They offered me a job in BeoCare.) The solution is just to switch the role of the BeoSystem 3 (formerly the V.Master) to V.Slave (Option 6). Then, I could configure the BeoLInk Converter as the V.Master (just like in your setup, Kiran). This works! I can still access all of my BeoSound 5 sources through all products (ML and NL) and I can access my NL audio sources by mapping them to ML Video sources. Therefore, I can access TuneIn on a BeoLab 3500 by pressing TV. I can access TuneIn on an ML BeoVision by pressing LINK + AV + TV. This might make sense to some old-school BeoWorlders who are super-knowledgable about ML, but for many of us (like myself), this was undocumented and took a bit of research. That's why I tried to provide some help in my prior posts as to how to configure the Beo4 and the Beo6. I think this might help you, Kiran, in accessing your NL sources through ML TVs.

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beojeff replied on Mon, May 29 2017 11:19 PM
I think I have the buttons ready for engraving with Lutron. I'm just not sure if Spotify will be around much longer....

I've programmed Lutron keypads via BLGW for keypads for both the BeoSound 1 and the BeoPlay M5, and I must say that it makes operation of the BeoSound 1 and BeoPlay M5 so much better!

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Hello Beojeff

Couple of questions

Can the keypad be used without other products?

How does the keypad talk to the Gateway

Can Lutron work just with keypads and the communication method?

Sean

BLGW - Rekindling the love of ML

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beojeff replied on Tue, May 30 2017 5:53 PM

Seanie_230:
Hello Beojeff

 

 

Couple of questions

 

 

Can the keypad be used without other products?

 

How does the keypad talk to the Gateway

 

Can Lutron work just with keypads and the communication method?

 

 

Sean

 

Sean-

While the Lutron keypads are intended to act as triggers within the Lutron system, the BLGW opens up so many more possibilities. The BLGW treats the Lutron buttons as triggers that can be used for any macros. All that you need is the Lutron Main Repeater device that bridges the Lutron products together and bridges them to the BLGW. The buttons can trigger any action in the BLGW, including Philips Hue, shades even from companies other than Lutron, B&O commands, coffee makers, etc. What's great with the NL devices is that we can directly use the B&O commands for the NL device -- even when we don't have a way to control them with the B&O remotes! If you create a dummy macro, you can see all of the potential for control of the NL devices and all of the sources, channels, commands, etc., that you can select.

To more specifically answer your questions, you only need the Lutron Main Repeater and can add any keypads to that main repeater. You don't actually need any lights. The Lutron keypads communicate wirelessly with the Main Repeater. The Main Repeater is connected to the BLGW. As I recall, I think it's done via a serial to USB adapter to the BLGW.

As we've discussed previously, Lutron RadioRa2 is not available in the UK. However, it looks like Kiran is using the Lutron QS for his magnificent BeoHome. The QS keypads are very similar and can also be custom engraved for backlighting. BTW, if you use them via battery power, you only get the backlight when a button is pressed. However, if you have them connect to the mains, the backlighting is always on. The QS range has a much greater choice of finishes -- including some beautiful metal finishes. The RadioRa 2 table keypads only come in boring white or black. I'm excited to see with Kiran does with his system!

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beojeff replied on Sat, Jun 3 2017 10:31 PM

Taking it to the next level:

I now am ready to send off for the backlit button engravings.

A nice bonus of assigning the macros to the Lutron buttons is that all of those macros are now ready to be triggered by voice commands to Amazon Echo via IFTTT. I've been programming some IFTTT macros such as:

"Alexa, trigger join kitchen."

"Alexa, trigger join dinning room."

"Alexa, trigger tune in kitchen."

"Alea, trigger deezer dining room."

All of this works perfectly! 

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beojeff replied on Thu, Jun 15 2017 10:44 PM
The custom NL keypads have arrived.

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