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B&O Playmaker?

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butch1
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butch1 replied on Tue, Jul 17 2012 8:19 PM

Moxxey  

I do agree with you to a point,I have loads of apple products and my company uses apple computers so I am not slating apple.Its when you have people on a forum who are always negative about the forums brand.I am a big merc amg fan but would not go on to a bmw m forum and slate them and praise amg all the time.

I hope you can appreciate this as you love panerai watches,I love rolex/audemars but can appreciate other brands too as I know you do pay for the name alot.

A B&o forum should be mostly positive about the brand,like a apple forum will be.car,watch forum etc.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Jul 17 2012 9:02 PM

butch1:

Moxxey  

I do agree with you to a point,I have loads of apple products and my company uses apple computers so I am not slating apple.Its when you have people on a forum who are always negative about the forums brand.I am a big merc amg fan but would not go on to a bmw m forum and slate them and praise amg all the time.

I hope you can appreciate this as you love panerai watches,I love rolex/audemars but can appreciate other brands too as I know you do pay for the name alot.

A B&o forum should be mostly positive about the brand,like a apple forum will be.car,watch forum etc.

 

I would prefer honesty - I don't want folk slagging stuff off unecessarily but I would rapidly stop visiting if the site became full off evangelical brand claptrap (whatever the brand)!

I'm happy that people call it as they see it (and facts are always most welcome) but I can really do without to much brand hyperbole.

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kai
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kai replied on Tue, Jul 17 2012 10:58 PM
I had the pleasure of going to the bang & Olufsen factory, I have seen some of the designs by some of the young designers with some fantastic ideas, the big problem seems to be they are rushing out products without thinking about the design the playmaker is one of the ugliest designs I have seen from b & o Would it be so hard to make a simple aluminium design something like the sensor. I had the pleasure of selling this product for 16 years, but for me they seem to have lost there way with certain products
moxxey
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moxxey replied on Tue, Jul 17 2012 11:01 PM

butch1:

I hope you can appreciate this as you love panerai watches

Someone should stop me, seriously. I was going to buy the BV12 (upgrade from BV10), but ended up with a PAM 372 instead :) (mind you, to be fair, I still can't get my head around a £17K TV purchase, if truth be told).

butch1
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butch1 replied on Tue, Jul 17 2012 11:35 PM

I know what you mean I bought a new £30k link system in 2004,lucky if its worth £5k now.At the same time I bought a watch for £8k and sold it last month for £9k ,much better investment.My wife always says though it tells the time the same as a £100 watch,and she doesnt see much difference in a £10k b&o tv and a comet special,but thats women for you.

Its a pity she doesnt think like that when it comes to handbags and shoes though. lol

Nice watch though love the 1950 myself.

Steffen
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Steffen replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 1:10 AM

moxxey:
Just because we own B&O, it doesn't mean that we should all be (falsely) excited about B&O and diss other products. As I said in another forum, there's a fine line between fanaticism and realism and a lot of users fall in to the first category and get quite heated by any "negativity" whatsoever.

Quite funny You should say that...

Try reading your previous statements again and replace the word 'B&O' with 'Apple'...Hmm

Aren't you one of those who is overly excited about certain products (with an Apple) - AND diss other products...

Aren't you one of those who gets heated by any 'negativity' ...Hmm

Be careful not to trip over that 'fine line' you mention...Whistle

moxxey
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moxxey replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 2:47 PM

Steffen:

Be careful not to trip over that 'fine line' you mention...Whistle

Where are these products I've "dissed". And where do I get angry over B&O negativity? Please do display some factual posts please rather than making a sweeping statement with a childish smiley.

You've made yourself look a bit of a tool, I'm afraid.

Flappo
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Flappo replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 6:55 PM

I can't imagine jony Ive designing something as awful as the playmaker and apple certainly wouldnt allow it to enter production. It looks just abysmal. 

Say what you like about apple but at least they know their market.

Gatex
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Gatex replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 7:51 PM
Flapp your right playamaker looks like a first stage prototyp ,unfinished made of cardboard. The best it s not even white İts 1985 made pc cases ugly creamy
Paul W
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Paul W replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 8:04 PM

I agree with Flappo.   THE thing that BANG&OLUFSEN succeeded on were their designs. But now?

At least with Apple, they continuously make beautiful designs! Not one lemon in 10 years! EVEN the box & packaging of the lil Apple TV is just superb!

I feel sorry for Tue really, I don't think that he'll ever win. At least B&O is available in the Apple store which is a real welcoming place. B&O shops are sooooooo old fashioned inside with rather old snooty shop assistants.

tournedos
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tournedos replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 8:18 PM

Paul W:
At least B&O is available in the Apple store which is a real welcoming place. B&O shops are sooooooo old fashioned inside with rather old snooty shop assistants.

So they should start getting rid of "rather old" shop assistants? Isn't this becoming a bit... no, silly isn't the word.

--mika

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 8:24 PM

Paul W:

I agree with Flappo.   THE thing that BANG&OLUFSEN succeeded on were their designs. But now?

At least with Apple, they continuously make beautiful designs! Not one lemon in 10 years! EVEN the box & packaging of the lil Apple TV is just superb!

I feel sorry for Tue really, I don't think that he'll ever win. At least B&O is available in the Apple store which is a real welcoming place. B&O shops are sooooooo old fashioned inside with rather old snooty shop assistants.

Here we go again! - It may come as something of a shock but not everyone thinks that Apple is the answer to life, the Universe and everything! Please try and give it a rest - yes the Playmaker is very poor however not everyone thinks everything Apple does is beautiful - in fact I think they're starting to become very "samey". I particularly don't give a stuff about the box they're packed in!!

Maybe you'd be better off posting on an Apple-itte forum about B&O!

 

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Ƨcɑɽɑɱɑnɡɑ
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Mr. Butch... paging Mr. Butch...

  • One B&o bottle opener
  • One fancy gun
Flappo
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Flappo replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 8:44 PM

The last time I mentioned b&o at a mac forum they thought it was a joke thread.

Flappo
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Flappo replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 8:49 PM

On another note , completely off topic , but no doubt Paul,will enjoy ;

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/possible-losses-looms-microsofts-fiscal-190556258.html

 

Oh how the mighty have fallen........

 

Looksl like Tue made the right decision after all 

TripEnglish
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Since I've said hello on another thread, I'll drop a comment in here as well I suppose. And I was doing so well staying away!

Having finally seen the PlayMaker I have to say that I thought very little in terms of its looks. What's more compelling to me is what it does, which is a simple and crucial task - connect a great pair of BeoLab speakers with your iOS universe. 

It's the polar opposite of a BeoSound 5 which is a "top heavy" system design that's right for a narrow market of enthusiasts. What most people want is the shortest path between their iPad and a pair of speakers. We have to remember that the PlayMaker is an extraordinary price-point for B&O and every scrap of aluminum we get adds to that cost and doesn't make it one bit of a better product. Over-designing can be as bad as under-designing and In all likelihood most will be tucked away like a BeoLine telephone base. Perhaps B&O shouldn't have added any physical features to it at all, more like a true AirPort Express, but I think that having a volume wheel, mute button, and IR option makes it a much better concept than just having a box of electronics. 

PhilLondon
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I agree Trip, despite its disappointing look, I think it is a great device. Not aimed at people like us that already have a setup, but for people who own iDevices, PS3 or Android devices and want to get the sound on real speaker. Opens up a lot of possibilities. On another thread I saw that you can also use the line-in to connect a kikinoko TV to a pair of B&O speakers, while allowing the streaming to the same speakers.

It has just been revealed that iOS6 (beta) for Apple TV will allow the Apple TV to send the sound to remote Airplay device instead of the TV (before it could only receive Airplay streams). With this you can take your iPhone and tell your Apple TV to stream to any room. Quite good as you then don't have to drain your iPhone's batteries.

 

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PhilLondon
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PhilLondon replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 10:00 PM

Paul W:
B&O shops are sooooooo old fashioned inside with rather old snooty shop assistants.

I was recently welcomed to a B&O store by a very charming young lady. Unfortunately she knew very little about the products and I think I prefer an older bald assistant with a beer belly that know his products and can answer my questions Smile

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elephant
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elephant replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 10:09 PM

So goof to hear one of Trip's perspective pieces !!

PhilLondon:
It has just been revealed that iOS6 (beta) for Apple TV will allow the Apple TV to send the sound to remote Airplay device instead of the TV (before it could only receive Airplay streams). With this you can take your iPhone and tell your Apple TV to stream to any room. Quite good as you then don't have to drain your iPhone's batteries.

very interesting, so networking between airplay devices ?

I was wondering how something like the PlayMaker could be used to create a wireless 3.1+2.0 environment -- I could use one of those that right now !

BeoNut since '75

Steffen
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Steffen replied on Wed, Jul 18 2012 11:19 PM

TripEnglish:
We have to remember that the PlayMaker is an extraordinary price-point for B&O and every scrap of aluminum we get adds to that cost and doesn't make it one bit of a better product. Over-designing can be as bad as under-designing and In all likelihood most will be tucked away like a BeoLine telephone base. Perhaps B&O shouldn't have added any physical features to it at all, more like a true AirPort Express, but I think that having a volume wheel, mute button, and IR option makes it a much better concept than just having a box of electronics.

Exactly. But because it HAS physical features most buyers will not hide it away - and thats why they should have made a better design.
I guess that people who will buy the PlayMaker will be people who have some B&O products - and they are willing to pay a bit more for a nice design.
I doubt they'll sell many PlayMakers to non-B&O people..? There are lots of alternatives.

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Hardwriter replied on Thu, Jul 19 2012 12:25 AM

Steffen is right. Playmaker incorporates touch control so is intended to be visible. That means it should look good. But it does not. It appears to have good functionality but the look is so bad and it is intended for a market where there is competition, whether that is from Sonos, Apple or whoever. It's a bit of a disappointment really so I'll be sticking with AEs. Apologies to Puncher because I know he'll disagree but take the design and quality of finish out of B&O and there's little reason buying it IMHO. The playmaker does not look like the people that made it loved it! 

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Puncher replied on Thu, Jul 19 2012 7:26 AM

Hardwriter:
Apologies to Puncher because I know he'll disagree but take the design and quality of finish out of B&O and there's little reason buying it IMHO

Wrong!!Stick out tongue I don't disagree at all...........there are several products where you are exactly right.

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StUrrock
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StUrrock replied on Thu, Jul 19 2012 8:13 AM

Martin  again I appreciate your solution, but from B&O I would expect something a bit more elegant.

Mains cable to playmaker, 8pin to passive, mains to passive, speaker cables to ceiling speakers, remote to control line in, 3rd party apps to control music, just seems a bit clumsy to me. Also seems not to be easy to have party mode for multiple playmakers.

 

olvisab
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olvisab replied on Sun, Jul 22 2012 4:50 PM

I really wonder why you and all your apple friends are posting again and again on this forum.

I own several apple product and I don't imagine one second going on the apple forum for posting only criticism.

I know Apple from the beginning (still a young company with low and highs).From the begining I have always met proud people claiming the superiority of Apple.

They were ridiculous 20 years ago, and still today.

B&o is absolutely not comparable with Apple

The problem is that short minded people doesn't realize that these 2 company come from a different world.Look back 10 second and the difference are huge.Just non sense.

FOr the future, nobody knows how the market will change.

We are here for speaking about b&o products not for promoting other brand.We all have internet and compare SONOS, BOSE or Apple without your poor help.

for Butch 1 :  +10

 

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butch1
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butch1 replied on Sun, Jul 22 2012 7:17 PM

cheers nice to know someone is on the same wavelength

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Flappo replied on Mon, Jul 23 2012 1:41 PM

The difference is apple is the world's biggest and most profitable company with a super loyal fan base who appreciate their superb products and bno are on perma-bankruptcy watch producing over priced under performing buggy software laden junk that seems to have been designed by stevie wonder . Bno have turned into a joke and the only way they're surviving is by being a glorified ipod attachment supplier. Pathetic really.

I wish Tue the best of luck , he'll need it.

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Pestria replied on Mon, Jul 23 2012 2:06 PM

@ Trip ....

I agree with the central argument that the playmaker is a very useful device and we should value its functionality ... but I'd like to raise a couple of points.

The playmaker is designed to be the shortest path to a pair of speakers.  I expect in most cases those speakers will be B&O speakers and therefore a more consistent design ethos might have been more appropriate.  I agree that aluminium add costs, but I disagree that it would not make it a better product.  The B&O brand was after all built around function AND form.  Moreover, the marginal cost of the aluminium to someone who's using the playmaker to link an iPad to a pair of say Beolab 8000s using a Beo4 is a drop in the ocean.

I wonder if a better approach would have been to adopt the old strategy of using a hidden airport express type 'black' box for the electronics with an optional front end (wheel, remote) available in a variety of colours/finishes with appropriate costs.

 

 

olvisab
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olvisab replied on Mon, Jul 23 2012 7:47 PM

Incredible ! the same speech than twenty years before.Reminber when Apple was near bankrupcy.

I don' t judge company and people by just looking on their account.

You should work for Apple or you are completely stupid.You speak like a child.

I dream.

Am I on a b&o forum ?

 

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PhilLondon
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olvisab:
You should work for Apple or you are completely stupid.You speak like a child.

Guys, this isn't a place to insult other members. Talking about other companies than B&O might not be what you like, but it isn't against this forum rule. Insulting others is.

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Flappo replied on Mon, Jul 23 2012 9:13 PM

Don't worry . It'll take a lot more than that to annoy a net veteran like me. Big Smile

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Paul W replied on Mon, Jul 23 2012 10:13 PM

Flappo was actually making a very valid point! He's a passionate, well informed, well read guy!

Apple are quality, certainly will never become mainstream, we've got Samsung for that. B&O and Apple compliment each other very well. Both are bought by non-conformists who love design, quality, attention to detail and something a little different! It's just that after Chris's experience with the BeoLit12, there'll be a lot less of us buying the B&O...

Guys, no being mean please OR you'll have me to answer to and I certainly don't stand for any nonsense!

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elephant replied on Mon, Jul 23 2012 10:43 PM

Pestria:
I wonder if a better approach would have been to adopt the old strategy of using a hidden airport express type 'black' box for the electronics with an optional front end (wheel, remote) available in a variety of colours/finishes with appropriate costs.

That would have been an approach that is consistent with the past (MCL82, BeoLine, BeoPort, BeoActive and to some extent BeoLink Wireless are all examples here in my home right now - oh well I fibbed, the MCL is retired),

So your suggestion is a good approach and does allow us to unleash the interior decorator lurking within us all (just take a look at what Leslie has done to his 6000s with a pair of pink tights!)

However I have been wondering why B&O did not do that ....

  1. simplified packaging ?
  2. simplified assembly ?
  3. better margins ?
  4. or ... with the modern demographic is there an issue that the customer set they were targeting live in rented apartments (no drilling allowed), they more more often (don't want the fuss of drilling)
  5. or ... even if they live in houses they would prefer not to have construction work simply to get a spare pair of speakers working in the guest room
Maybe dealers like Trip have been pleading for easy of installation ???

BeoNut since '75

Pestria
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Pestria replied on Tue, Jul 24 2012 9:01 AM

Probably 1, 2 and 3.

I dont think drilling and construction would have been an issue, after al lthere will need to be power and speaker leads connected to the unit anyway

AP

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moxxey replied on Tue, Jul 24 2012 10:22 AM

Paul W:

Both are bought by non-conformists who love design, quality, attention to detail and something a little different! 

I think Apple lost that stigma circa 2003. They are now very much mainstream. Just about every kid owns an iPhone. Nearly everyone plumps for an iPad over an Android device.

If you want to join the masses, the masses are now buying Apple. Hence all the retail stores.

Indeed, you could now argue that non-conformists would be those who buy a Windows Phone-based device.

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maclife replied on Tue, Jul 24 2012 11:52 AM

moxxey:

I think Apple lost that stigma circa 2003. They are now very much mainstream. Just about every kid owns an iPhone. Nearly everyone plumps for an iPad over an Android device.

If you want to join the masses, the masses are now buying Apple. Hence all the retail stores.

Indeed, you could now argue that non-conformists would be those who buy a Windows Phone-based device.

Very true, but it isn’t very funny. After using a NeXTdimension as a workstation for years, a PowerBook, two MacBook Pro models and since sometime now a Mac Pro the very dominant influence of iDevices and the iOS even on the Mac as well Mac OS X drives me increasingly crazy. I would very much like a real alternative to Apple products but I just cannot find one being universally able to replace the (still better) Cupertino mafia. I do not appreciate at all their values (friends of mine were working for them and the climate there is far away from the image they sell) or their incredibly closed ecosystem. So every – even little – success of B&O over Apple is very appreciated and if they fail with products like the Playmaker it honestly makes me very sad. Maybe there should be people like Clive Sinclair reinventing the IT business as Apple clearly doesn’t anymore. Steve Jobs disappeared last year and this for sure will show one day, most probably after the last prototypes he influenced are finally marketed.

elephant
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Michael:

elephant:

I have read all the posts (up to Paul's) and was surprised that no one saw some similarities (except for the shape) with these recent Google leaks:

what with Microsoft announcing yet another attempt at getting into music distribution it seems like the pace is really hotting up.

I spent yesterday re-organising my AV/LAN world and afterwards had a box of audio cables, LAN cables, and mini-routers left over.

Can't wait for a product like this from B&O and I can start removing more wires and gaining greater flexibility.

Hi Elephant :). Honestly I really am sad to see that all Google does today is copy. They where innovating, now they just duplicate. The streaming box, what is that? A crippled Apple TV combined with the features of Spotify. And the speakers look nothing more than any speaker in any hifi-store. 
Nothing interesting for me at least :) 

I am reviving this version of the Playmaker thread as it mentioned the Google Nexus Q.

You will recall that some Beoworlders were quite harsh on the B&O Playmaker ... well I noticed that apparently Google has stumbled with its Nexus Q and is delaying (date yet to be announced) availability of the Nexus Q.

In reading the various stories about this most were harsh ... saying that any way the Q was over rated, over priced, and under performing in function.usability.

With the exception of this article which gave the announcement a positive spin - interesting how WIRED only recent was critical of the Beoplay V1 !

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/07/google-postpones-nexus-q-launch-to-add-new-features/

BeoNut since '75

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Flappo replied on Sun, Aug 5 2012 6:05 PM

Does it run android ? If so best of luck with usability . 

I got a free Samsung tab in the post the other day , ironic as I sent the tv back . Lol.

Its probably the most over complicated piece of junk I've used in ages. Thank god for the iPad.

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Paul W replied on Sun, Aug 5 2012 7:51 PM

From the horrors of the AirPlay problem on the BeoLit12 i'm wondering if the PlayMaker thing is going to have the same problem.  So its a thousand times nastier looking than the nice new Apple Airport and 4 times dearer and probably won't work half as well.   Ah well some Bang&olufsen customers will buy it!

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Interesting to note that the Nad dock which seems to be the flavour of the day, doesn't even bother with AirPlay but uses Bluetooth. My Beolit which has been behaving up till today, just shut down for a few hours, and then when it spontaneously restarted it did so at full volume!

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moxxey replied on Sun, Aug 5 2012 8:35 PM

Paul W:

From the horrors of the AirPlay problem on the BeoLit12 i'm wondering if the PlayMaker thing is going to have the same problem.  So its a thousand times nastier looking than the nice new Apple Airport and 4 times dearer and probably won't work half as well.   Ah well some Bang&olufsen customers will buy it!

The Playmaker is featured in the latest Stuff magazine. As always, they tried to make light out of the device by saying they confused it for a smoke alarm.

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