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Beosound 5 and HD music files

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VANTAGE
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VANTAGE posted on Wed, Jun 6 2012 6:52 PM

 

Hi all,

I am confused and hoping that somebody here can give me a bulletproof answer ;-)

I am the happy owner of a BS5/BM5 combo. All my music is in lossless-format, ie. in at least CD quality (16 bit-44.1 KHz), sometimes above (typically 24 bit-96 KHz). Regardless of quality or format (FLAC, WMA…) everything plays well on my system.

Here’s the question: on a well-known Danish B&O forum, I have read that BS5/BM5 does not play above CD quality, ie. if a file is provided in a higher quality (FLAC 24 bit-96 KHz for instance), it is “downgraded” to 44.1 KHz before being played. In an e-mail I have received today from Struer, I am even told that any FLAC-file above 48 KHz needs to be converted to 44.1 KHz before it can be played: that’s just plain wrong, as I haven’t touched the high resolution music files that I have bought, and they all play correctly. B&O also tells me that having BL5s (with digital cables and with BL5 selected as speakers in the BS5 menu) does not change things one bit: it will still be CD quality (44.1 KHz), no more.

Now maybe I got things completely wrong, but here on Beoworld I have read that the BS5 Encore can play up to 96 KHz and the BS5/BM5 combo, up to 192 KHz.

To sum things up: I know for a fact that my system DOES play files that are above 44.1 KHz or even 48 KHz. The question is whether it is playing them at the original high frequency, or not? Am I wasting money buying the more expensive HD music files? I mean it’s pretty pointless buying HD files if they get downgraded to CD quality anyway, right?

Can anybody here confirm FOR A FACT that BS5 / BM5 plays HD files correctly, at the appropriate original high frequency?

Many thanks for your support and guidance on the matter Smile

VANTAGE

 

 

Beovision Eclipse 65 -  BL5 - BL3

McIntosh MC601 x 2 - McIntosh C50 - McIntosh D100 -  McIntosh MHP1000 - Focal Scala V2 Utopia - McIntosh McAire

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sjmcguckin
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Carolpa:
I embedded the jpg in the flac file.

 

All pictures are shown on the BS5

Carolpa,

Sorry for being stupid, but how do you do this?

Steph
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Steph replied on Mon, Jun 18 2012 1:39 PM

I believe you must use a freeware like mp3tag so you can ad the cover to the whole album.

Puncher
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Puncher replied on Tue, Jun 19 2012 10:34 AM

Carolpa:

Puncher:
It is therefore possible (if not even probable) that the differences you hear have nothing to do with the actually codec or encoding bitdepth/frequency.

Interesting point of view! 

But in general I agree with Mbee. I converted a lot of DVDA, DVDV, SACD & BR in the digital domain to hi-res FLAC myself and there is most of the times a notable difference. But not always!?!

A nice example: the Beatles album collection on USB (official Apple release). Even despite they are "only" 44.1kHz 24bit, they are the best sounding Beatles around. 

It must depend on what you're converting and what you're using to do the conversion. Obviously the conversion isn't, by definition, lossless as you're hearing differences between the source material and the FLAC file. SACD is slightly different as it first needs to be converted from DSD to PCM before it can be encoded as FLAC (unless of course it is the Redbook CD layer that is being converted rather than the high def. SACD layer).

I would be amazed if the FLAC encoder is introducing audible differences.

Ban boring signatures!

Carolpa
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Puncher:

 

It must depend on what you're converting and what you're using to do the conversion. Obviously the conversion isn't, by definition, lossless as you're hearing differences between the source material and the FLAC file. SACD is slightly different as it first needs to be converted from DSD to PCM before it can be encoded as FLAC (unless of course it is the Redbook CD layer that is being converted rather than the high def. SACD layer).

 

I would be amazed if the FLAC encoder is introducing audible differences.

 

Ban boring signatures!

 

 

1. The "difference" to be heard is not between the source and the flac file (they are equal), but between 24 bit >44.1 kHz and 16 bit =<44.1 kHz files (PCM, wav, flac). 

2. The conversion was done lossless and compared with the original PCM

 

3. Redbook CD layer of a SACD is equal to CD (as stated); it would be stupid to define this as high resolution.

4. You' right, but DSD can be extracted from SACD and then converted to PCM and/or Flac (in the digital domain). 

 

Carolpa
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download program from mp3tag.de (Windows); install

Open program

Select one or more music file

Richt click on box with "disc" 

Choose add cover

 

or

Select music file(s)

choose Tag sources, cover art, Amazon.com

put the album tittle in and choose a cover

 

 

 

 

Puncher
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Carolpa:

Puncher:

 

It must depend on what you're converting and what you're using to do the conversion. Obviously the conversion isn't, by definition, lossless as you're hearing differences between the source material and the FLAC file. SACD is slightly different as it first needs to be converted from DSD to PCM before it can be encoded as FLAC (unless of course it is the Redbook CD layer that is being converted rather than the high def. SACD layer).

 

I would be amazed if the FLAC encoder is introducing audible differences.

 

Ban boring signatures!

 

 

1. The "difference" to be heard is not between the source and the flac file (they are equal), but between 24 bit >44.1 kHz and 16 bit =<44.1 kHz files (PCM, wav, flac). 

2. The conversion was done lossless and compared with the original PCM

 

3. Redbook CD layer of a SACD is equal to CD (as stated); it would be stupid to define this as high resolution.

4. You' right, but DSD can be extracted from SACD and then converted to PCM and/or Flac (in the digital domain). 

 

Fair enough, I'm just trying to be thorough in defining what it is you're comparing. So where do these files originate - have you encoded them and if so from what or are they purchased?

Ban boring signatures!

Carolpa
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Carolpa replied on Wed, Jun 20 2012 10:07 AM

Puncher:
So where do these files originate - have you encoded them and if so from what or are they purchased?

most  HD files are extracted/converted from my own DVDA, DVDV, BR & SACD. Some downloads are bought from Qubus, iTrax.com or HDtracks.com and some are bought directly from the artist.

I prefere to buy the "software" (cd's, dvd's, br's, sacd's) myself. In my opinion, there are hardly good lossless download sources around. And if you compare the prices of the discs and the downloads, they are almost the same!

Puncher
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I'm sorry, I don't seem to be asking my question very well. Can you describe for any given pair of tracks - a HD version and a 16bit 44.1KHz version - how each is generated before you listen and hear the differences.

Are they HD and standard rips of the same source track or is the HD rip from a different source disc or file to the standard rip of the same song?

Ban boring signatures!

Carolpa
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The Beatles: 09-09-09 CD-box Stereo (black); cd's files compared with flac files from the Stereo USB stick from the Beatles (the same collection; same reissue) 24bit 44.1kHz. 

Downloaded files of 96kHz 24bit Wav files compared to cd (remastered) of Band on the Run; Paul McCartney (both part of the Deluxe issue).

Extracted PCM 96kHz, 24bit from DVDV (music only) of Steve Earle compared to the cd in the same package; converted both PCM formats with the same software to flac.

etc. etc.

It would be strange if these examples do not have the same origin. But for sure there will be examples were the origin isn't the same.......... 

 

 

 

mbee
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mbee replied on Wed, Jun 20 2012 3:09 PM

And I've also done my (non blind + blind with friends) test with Qobuz files : when bought in 24bit, Qobuz lets you download the same track from the same master in 24bits and in 16bits lossless (and in compressed formats...)

HD tracks do make a difference on my Beolabs (BL3), I think the difference is huge on full range speakers such as BL5. But as I've already said, difference between 16 and 24bit is huge in some tracks (for some, it's subtle), but I'm quite sure that I couldn't tell the difference between a 24bit/44,1KHz file and the same in 24bit/192KHz.

flachd
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flachd replied on Fri, Mar 27 2015 9:06 PM

I am buying flac files converted only from vinyls. The sites I am using is converting all the music only from the origin old vinyls which has better quality than from cd. They have all 192kHz/24bit. Sound great, believe

Try to donwload some from FLACHD.COM

koning
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koning replied on Fri, Mar 27 2015 9:41 PM

Buying.......hmmmm

try vinyl rips from PBTHAL

website vinyldoneright.nl

Millemissen
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flachd:

Sound great, believe

Believe......uhh, sounds spooky 👽

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 28 2015 12:24 AM

flachd:

I am buying flac files converted only from vinyls. The sites I am using is converting all the music only from the origin old vinyls which has better quality than from cd. They have all 192kHz/24bit. Sound great, believe

Try to donwload some from FLACHD.COM

Interesting, but a question. How were they ripped? What turntable, arm, and cartridge combo? What phono preamp? Unlike CD LPs can sound markedly different depending on the associated hardware, and opinions about turntable sound are at least as strongly held as in the digital file world. How do you know you got the best rip, for your ears or speakers, that a different combo would bring you to sonic nirvana?

and you also get all the LP issues as well as alleged benefits, distortion, inner groove particularly, mono bass, poor channel separation, phase irregularities. I have an album, Return To Forever's Romantic Warrior, severe inner groove distortion and limiting, I never heard the end of either album side cleanly until CD  

 

 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Sat, Mar 28 2015 1:18 AM

Millemissen:

flachd:

Sound great, believe

Believe......uhh, sounds spooky 👽

MM

Where's the smoking man on all of this?

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

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