Sign in   |  Join   |  Help

Speaker choice for dance room

rated by 0 users
Answered (Verified) This post has 1 verified answer | 41 Replies | 3 Followers

Seanie_230
Top 50 Contributor
UK
2,194 Posts
OFFLINE
Gold Member
Seanie_230 posted on Wed, Oct 8 2014 7:00 PM

Hello all

I would love some help to choose some speakers for my music / dance room.

I have had some history with this which has cost me a small fortune.

First of all I had some lab9's which sound perfect but cut our with today's modern music which is full of bass and due to the height have to be turned up loud to compensate for the low listening height, these ended up in my lounge as prt of my cinema setup.

 

I then built some fake insulated walls and bought some lab 12-3 which looked amazing but did not quite cut it for me and the volume did not make it high enough before protection mode and the bass would cause them to turn themselves down.

 

Next I decided to try something else, I purchased a rotel amp and some bowers and Wilkins speakers Cm9's these speakers sound very good and suit the room, i also make a cable that enabled the amp to switch on from the beosound triggar, but I have replaced the woofer in them three times when music and the bass making the speakers unhappy.

 

All in all the lab9's sound the best in terms of quality but cannon take the volume.

The lab 12's were amazing lookin.

The CM9 speakers sound excellent but not as deep as the lab9's nd have no built in protection to avoid overdoing it.

I have asked Ian from more tha AV to trail some beolab1's but the reviews I read are that the bass is poor and they sound clinical. They may also be to large for the look of the room. 

 

The music room is basically my own personal nightclub with disco lights smoke machine and very loud music. I don't want big disco speakers I still want warm quality. Sound but the ability to turn it up loud. Without the speakers telling me off. Any thoughts? Sorry. For punctuation this iPad is awful.

 

 

Eclipse 65
V1-32
Beosound M5
Essence MK2
BLI

Answered (Verified) Verified Answer

Seanie_230
Top 50 Contributor
UK
2,194 Posts
OFFLINE
Gold Member
Verified by Paul W

Hi again Paul

Beosound is because all I play is spotify though an airport express and then via a.aux nothing special.

I don't play just dance music it can be as simple as Chris brown, Rhianna or will-I-am but equally modern music is very bassy.

 

Eclipse 65
V1-32
Beosound M5
Essence MK2
BLI

All Replies

Steffen
Top 75 Contributor
Denmark
1,388 Posts
OFFLINE
Gold Member

I have read the posts Again... Did he destroy any B&O speakers..???

(Quote):

First of all I had some lab9's which sound perfect but cut our with today's modern music which is full of bass and due to the height have to be turned up loud to compensate for the low listening height, these ended up in my lounge as prt of my cinema setup.

 

I then built some fake insulated walls and bought some lab 12-3 which looked amazing but did not quite cut it for me and the volume did not make it high enough before protection mode and the bass would cause them to turn themselves down.

 

Next I decided to try something else, I purchased a rotel amp and some bowers and Wilkins speakers Cm9's these speakers sound very good and suit the room, i also make a cable that enabled the amp to switch on from the beosound triggar, but I have replaced the woofer in them three times when music and the bass making the speakers unhappy.

 

All in all the lab9's sound the best in terms of quality but cannon take the volume.

The lab 12's were amazing lookin.

The CM9 speakers sound excellent but not as deep as the lab9's nd have no built in protection to avoid overdoing it.

(end of quote)

What I read is, that Seanie has not destroyed any B&O speakers. Some of them turned themselves down for protection...

He did destroy the CM 9's hooked up to a Rotel amp - because there was no protection...

And here is his latest comment:

(quote):

Hi all

i think I am going to sell the bowers and Wilkins CM9 which I have blown a woofer again and go for a set of beolab penta 3

they have four woofers per speaker and also the technology to stop clipping and distortion which should keep the room looking smart and give great sound.

(end of quote)

How many drivers has he destroyed? The ones in the B&W CM9's...
None of the B&O's - as I read his postings...(correct me if I'm  wrong)
Distortion and clipping kills drivers... - not high volume alone.
A 2 x 25 watts amp can kill a set of 150 watts speakers under the right (or wrong) conditions. (I am not saying that his Rotel is only 25 W - just an example)

I hate to repeat myself - so please read my post above again. This is my experience with Pentas.
I guess I could have killed the Penta's - if they were hooked up to an amp without any protection circuit  - but they're not!
They can play really loud - for years and years - and they have done it. Believe it or not.
Seems like Seanie want to give it a try... Why not..? 

Jeff
Top 25 Contributor
USA
3,793 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member
Jeff replied on Tue, Dec 2 2014 2:53 AM

Pedantic aren't we? Thermal shut down on B&O products, did you miss that? He's been given plenty of good advice on how to actually solve his problem, but I doubt he will take it. And woofers are not killed by too small an amp. I've seen plenty of dead ones and none of them were killed by small amps. B&O makes high fidelity home gear, they smartly provide a myriad of protection strategies to protect the speakers from the users, but they are not nor ever will be pro audio designed for long, high volume abuse as opposed to sensible home audio use. 

The OP kind of wants his cake and to eat it too...something that rarely happens in the real world no matter how much you wish it were true. 

 

 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Jeff
Top 25 Contributor
USA
3,793 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member
Jeff replied on Tue, Dec 2 2014 3:34 AM

Just to add some numbers, each Penta has 4 5 inch woofers driven by a 150-200 watt amp depending on the year if I remember right. The Lab 9 s he drove into shutting down, that tripped the protection, have a 10 inch woofer driven by a 500 watt Class D amp. Four 5 inch drivers have the same Sd as one 10 inch driver, same surface area, but much lower Vd or volume of displacement as they have a lower Xmax. The woofer on the 9 is a very heavy duty and robust driver, and the protection circuitry is more advanced than what was available in the days of the Penta. I think it's possible to damage the Pentas. However, as they can be had cheaper it's possible to run multiple pairs, but I'd say at least six if them and after investing that much money, and restoring them, still might well wind up with something unequal to the demands. 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Jeff
Top 25 Contributor
USA
3,793 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member
Jeff replied on Tue, Dec 2 2014 3:44 AM

The Pentas have four 5 inch drivers driven by a 150-200 watt amp.  The 9s have one very robust 10 inch driver driven by a 500 watt Class D amp, and he drove those into protection. The surface area, Sd, is about the same for four 5 inch drivers as for a 10 inch, but the displacement volume, Vd is bigger on the larger driver as Xmax is larger, and it has a larger voice coil that's better able to handle thermal stresses. Also, protection circuits on the 9s are more sophisticated than was possible in the days of the Pentas. I think you could damage a pair of Pentas more easily. also, being vented the Pentas would be more easy to damage by bass below their higher system resonance unless they have a very steep high pass filter to cut bass below the tuning freq out, which is hard to do in an analog circuit without a lot of problems. 

Of course, as they are less expensive used its possible to run multiple pairs, I'd say at least three pairs would be needed. Then again, that still might not work, and he'd have dumped a lot of money and time into restoring multiple pairs and still might not have something suitable. Would look great, but I'm still of the belief he'd be better off with something specifically designed for his application. 

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Steffen
Top 75 Contributor
Denmark
1,388 Posts
OFFLINE
Gold Member

Jeff:

Pedantic aren't we? Thermal shut down on B&O products, did you miss that? He's been given plenty of good advice on how to actually solve his problem, but I doubt he will take it. And woofers are not killed by too small an amp. I've seen plenty of dead ones and none of them were killed by small amps. B&O makes high fidelity home gear, they smartly provide a myriad of protection strategies to protect the speakers from the users, but they are not nor ever will be pro audio designed for long, high volume abuse as opposed to sensible home audio use. 

The OP kind of wants his cake and to eat it too...something that rarely happens in the real world no matter how much you wish it were true. 

 

 

Not pedantic. Wink <img src=" />  I think that I was around the protection circuits too. I have never experienced what you call "thermal shutdown".
My experience with B&O is, that the circuits are more sophisticated than that. Distortion makes them turn down - hot or not..!

However - you are absolutely right about woofers not being killed by small amplifiers. It is only treble -and sometimes midrange drivers that suffers that fate. I was thinking about my youth, when friends blew their cheap speakers - of course it was never the woofers. But the whole thing ended in the scrap-yard anyway.  I stand corrrected Embarrassed <img src=" />

But - as I write in my posting. I have had only good experience with Penta's.

Life is sometimes a compromise. If those penta's are not loud enough for the OP, then I don't know what is

Yes -  maybe the OP wants his cake and eat it too.  
But - as he says -  he wants good looking speakers. Not some ugly boxes.
He can  for sure get some ugly boxes that can 'stand the heat' - but it seems like he doesn't want that...

Those Penta's can play loud - and they do not blow the woofers. 
Well maybe Seanie will make those amps shutdown -and maybe he then buys a real mean amp - bypasses the amp in the pentas and blow it all to bits.
And maybe he'll then buy some ugly boxes...
- or maybe just turn Down the volume a bit to avoid hearing damage..? Whistle <img src=" />

Well, Seanie - you have heard some suggestions. The rest is up to you - But please tell us about it.

 

 

Jonathan
Top 75 Contributor
Melbourne, Australia
1,807 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

A friend of mine had a club with RL140s for speakers. These were solid performers, and were used for many years in a smoke filled nightclub!!

x:________________________

Seanie_230
Top 50 Contributor
UK
2,194 Posts
OFFLINE
Gold Member

Hi Guys

you are all correct I did not intend to cause any controversy.

i do want my cake and to eat it but I am looking for the best compromise possible, you are right I have never blown and B&o speaker and I adore the design of nearly all the speakers. I do not want disco speakers or to spend thousands of pounds more on pro speakers that look out of place.

the penta is the largest speaker I will have had in the room and they are a good height for music projection. The lab 9's sound amazing but the sound is very low down, if your seated they are brilliant. I have and still do have the orange light come on when listening to music on these never when I watch a film.

thank you for the advice I know we have gone around In circles. I think bang and olufsen speakers offer me the projection that annoys me, and if not hay I will just repair them and if I have to buy another pair and have four running. I don't play music loud that often anymore maybe once every three months, it's the occasion I leave the room and someone turns the music up or a bassy song comes on that at the same volume causes a problem.

for example if you have some punchy dance track on and the next track is will-I-am or chris brown for example the heavy base is to much.

 

Have a great day.

 

Eclipse 65
V1-32
Beosound M5
Essence MK2
BLI

mjmedlo
Top 100 Contributor
921 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Why don't you buy 6 beolab 5s and turn it up as loud as you can. I bet that would be loud enough?
Jeff
Top 25 Contributor
USA
3,793 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member
Jeff replied on Tue, Dec 2 2014 2:00 PM

There are at least two types of thermal shutdown, one where the amp is overheating and shuts down to protect itself until the temp drops, another which is used in newer B&O products, which is they shut down if the voice coil is overheating in the speaker driver. There are lots of different protection approaches, distortion being one of them, but the good point is B&O uses such to protect the speakers and amps from abuse. Still, even though you won't damage things as you might without such aids it's still a bummer if your system goes down right as you're getting your dance groove really on. Surprise

Sorry about the pedantic thing, I'm a grump old man and it was late, we seem to have a terminology mismatch with respect to protection, thermal shutdown, etc.

I'm personally glad B&O doesn't follow the typical audiophile nonsense of insisting that any form of protection is evil and acts like a "veil" over the music and other assorted nonsense. I remember back in the day when LPs ruled the day, we had a customer who had a largish pair of Cerwin Vega speakers, and a Harman Kardon Citation 16 amp. Nominally 150 w/ch, but with huge dual power supplies, that amp could dump about 5 times the power for a few milliseconds until it drained the power supply capacitors. This guy had the gain turned up about max and dropped the tonearm on the record, which compresses the cantilever and gave a nice 1/2 to 1 Hz subsonic whoomp that the amp, being direct coupled, passed with great aplomb. I came into the shop, and was looking at the back of one of the speakers on the workbench the tech was working on, and the speaker had a horn with a phenolic hard dome driver on the back. I did a double take as the dome was cracked in two. I mentioned it and the tech said you're gonna love this, look at the front. These huge 12 inch woofers with large voice coils had the dust cover over the voice coil completely missing, and the voice coils blown completely out of the driver like a Slinky. It also blew up the compression driver for the horn, and exploded every cap in the crossover network.

Sometimes it's good to protect gear against the user.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Jeff
Top 25 Contributor
USA
3,793 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member
Jeff replied on Tue, Dec 2 2014 2:02 PM

Maybe a pair of Pentas and a pair of BL2s are the answer. By playing around with the xover point and settings of the BL2 you should be able to get a decent integration, and also playing with location on the 2s.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Chris Townsend
Top 50 Contributor
Badsey, UK
3,481 Posts
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
By the time you've gone through the entire range, you may as well get some Beolab 5's. Been there, done that.

Beovision 11-55, Beolab 2, Beolab 6000, Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active

Jeff
Top 25 Contributor
USA
3,793 Posts
OFFLINE
Silver Member
Jeff replied on Tue, Dec 2 2014 4:24 PM

Chris Townsend:
By the time you've gone through the entire range, you may as well get some Beolab 5's. Been there, done that.

That takes all the fun out of it though if you like playing with lots of different gear! I still think he's going to have a hard time finding a single speaker that will work, speakers with large subs seems to be the the best approach IMO if he wants to avoid large pro speakers. You can add subs until you get enough air moving ability to get the bass he wants without stress. And subs can be disguised as tables, etc. and made to disappear depending on the room design.

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

Page 3 of 3 (42 items) < Previous 1 2 3 | RSS
Beoworld Security Certificate

SSL